Jewish Scene
US rabbis: Recognize our conversions
Kobi Nahshoni
Published: 23.02.11, 07:43
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23 Talkbacks for this article
1. Didtn think Eli Yishai could read English
Avi ,   Israel   (02.23.11)
Eli Yishai read letters in English ? what the language of the goyeem ?
2. Modern Orthodox is not the same as Orthodox. Far from it.
Chaim   (02.23.11)
No wonder Eli Yishai, Rabbi Ovadia Yosef and other Rabbis would not recognize their conversions.
3. #2 Ditto for Haredim!
Israeli ,   Israel   (02.23.11)
4. Now Orthodox in US know what it feels like
Yitzhak ,   Hannaton Israel   (02.23.11)
When Rwform & Conservative conversions were rejected by religious establishment, the OU and other Orthodox bodies either remained silent or supported it. Now they are reaping what they helped sow never thinking their exclusionary policies would come back to bite them.
5. Carry on ...
ruth rasnic ,   HERZLITYA, iSRAEL   (02.23.11)
It's high time the Rabbis in the diaspora make their voices loud and clear. Carry on the campaign in full blast אני מחזיקה לכם אצבעות. Ruth Rasnic
6. Joke
Menachem L. ,   Petach Tikva   (02.24.11)
Ivanka Trump had an Orthodox conversion in NY. What a joke!
7. Deny support for the state and then cut off Xtian funding
Mea   (02.24.11)
The real issue is that it is more than a conversion issue. it is a funding issue too. As long as orthodox rabbis are fueled politically by Christian group millions flowing directly into their coffers, the political power of the ultras will be a false high. This is important because w/o massive Xtian funding, the ultras would HAVE to accept converts desiring to make aliyah. They would also have to take steps toward the Reformers. But right now there is no pressure to do either of these things because each year right wing Christians send tens of millions of dollars into orthodox accounts and urge them to "settle the land" so that THEIR end times BS can come true for them. They use the religious and the religious use them, and in the meantime, other Jews--including converts--suffer this ridiculous discrimination. End it.
8. didn't know the American Rabbi's could write in Hebrew!
(02.24.11)
fascinating! really!
9. Yishai has upped the ante & is ignoring Israeli High Court..
that Jew ,   Israel   (02.24.11)
of Justice ruling from spring of 1989 on this matter! Yes, there was already one American Orthodox Jewish who converted who went to the High Court of Justice on this issue back in 1988. At that time the State of Israel accepted that Orthodox Jew as an "Oleh" (Jewish immigrant) but the State of Israel's Ministry of Interior refused to register that Orthodox Jew as a Jew in the Ministry of Interior's population register without a seal of approval from the (then existing) Ministry of Religion and the (currently existing) Israeli Chief Rabbinate. The Orthodox Jew protested the additional stringencies to the Israeli Supreme Court sitting as the High Court of Justice of Israel and WON! In that matter the High Court of Justice ruled that the Jew who had converted under the supervision of Orthodox Rabbis in the United States was indeed a Jew for all purposes before the State of Israel and ordered the Israeli Ministry of Interior to register that person as a Jew without a need for additional verifications or stringencies. The Israeli Ministry of Interior then headed by Rabbi A. Deri accepted that ruling and order and that person was duly registered as a Jew in the population register and was issued an Israeli Identity Card (Teudat Zehut) which clearly states that the person is a Jew. So there is already a precedent ruling from the High Court of Justice on this matter. Trust me on this, I should know, I am that Jew! So, why is Minister of Interior Eli Yishai refusing to register these new Orthodox Jewish immigrants who converted as Jews? (to all readers of this TB please note that according to accepted Orthodox interpretation - Conversion is a process at the end of which the person undergoing that process is a Jew.)
10. Check every conversion
Moshe B ,   Jerusalem   (02.24.11)
Every conversion has to be re-checked. I for one know that many missionaries are converting Orthodox in the US for the purpose of making aliyah and destroying us from within.
11. Moshe B, #10, where does it end?
that Jew (#9) ,   Israel   (02.24.11)
FYI and I am sure you will be surprised, shocked and appalled there are born Jews of Jewish mothers who are Christian missionaries and are working towards the purpose of destroying us from within! Moshe B have you given any thought to checking out those born Jews who are Christian missionaries? No? Why not? Please do remember that we are a strong nation we've been around for oh! how many thousand years? May I suggest that you go back and have a look at Parshat Yitro and the Parshiot following it...you may wish to remember that it was the born Jews and the strangers amongst them who accepted the Torah. And then you may wish to continue reading and see that it was the Jews the born Jews who came out of Egypt who rebelled and pushed for the making and worship the Golden Calf! and that it was Aharon a born Jew who made the Golden Calf and yet despite all of that you (presumably you are Jewish, yes?) and I are here...living as Jews in Israel and worshiping the Mighty Merciful Compassionate G-d of Israel. Please do focus on your internal compassion towards your fellow man and you will understand a great deal more than you already do! Wishing you a lovely day from Israel
12. Chaim @#2 but....
EBR ,   Jerusalem   (02.24.11)
If I understand "that Jew's" TB @9 then Rabbi Ovadia Yosef et.al. did indeed accept (Modern) Orthodox conversions because as you may recall back in 1989 Rabbi Aryeh Deri was Minister of Interior from the Shas party and both Deri and the Shas party were functioning under the directions of Rabbi Ovadia Yosef! So what are you saying? That Rabbi Ovadia Yosef has changed his mind? or is it perhaps that Eli Yishai is more rigorous and righteous than Rabbi Ovadia Yosef?
13. 11 If that's true...
Israeli Jew ,   Israel   (02.24.11)
Come out of the closet and man-up with your name and give the names of Christian missionaries who have been converted by Orthodox rabbis and the evidence. Then we can get rid of the fakes... if there are any. Personally, I think the whole idea of blaming "fake converts" is a libel no different than the Arabs blaming Israel for all of their problems.
14. #13 Ok, here's your proof....
that Jew @9 & 11   (02.24.11)
Please do go right over to the Christ Church Anglican Church in the Old City of Jerusalem just inside the Jaffa Gate across the street from the Police Station and the Migdal David Museum. Once inside please do go and ask them to let you have a look at their historical archives showing that in the late 19th century this church was established by a group of Orthodox Jews and their rabbis who were converted to Anglican Christianity with the special assistance and loving kindness of the wife of the British Consel in Jerusalem. Until today the descendents of those Jews who count themselves as active Christian Missionaries are listed as Jews by the Ministry of Interior! This is just one example. There are plenty more Christian missionaries with Jewish mothers living in Ariel, Beit Shemash and even throughout Yoa"sh. The best known one in Ariel was sent a Purim bomb by that Tietel terrorist fellow or did you forget about that! Is that good enough for you or do you need more? The concept of insincere Jews (what you inappropriately call "fake converts") is a real phenomenon! It is not a libel...but the manner in which Minister Eli Yishai is attempting to deal with it isn't the most expedient way. Please do leave the Arabs out of this we are talking about Judaism and the conversion process to Judaism please do stay on point! And fianlly, I do think that "Israeli Jew, Israel" is a lovely and very original name...is it the one your mother gave you? Or did you change your name for a new "segula" along the way!
15. 13 meant to reference #12 (sorry 11)
Israeli ,   Israel   (02.24.11)
16. Make that #10 (not 11 or 12; Im too busy)
Israeli ,   Israel   (02.24.11)
17. Lets do a test
Manny ,   Jerusalem   (02.24.11)
How many of your converts are keeping Shabbat 3 months after vs how many converts from the IDF are keeping Shabbat 3 months after. Maybe we will see that you both fail miserably and hopefully we will stop this conversion scam .
18. 14 didnt disagree w/u meant 10 but glad I ruffled ur fethers
Israeli Jew ,   Israel   (02.24.11)
so that you detailed the facts.
19. @18 Israeli Jew, Israel you are welcome...
#9 11 & 14 that Jew ,   Jerusalem   (02.24.11)
all of this information is readily available to anyone who wishes to study the matter. For example did you know that: 1. Misgav L'Dach, Shaare Zedek and Bikur Holim were founded in order to counter act the work of Christian Missionaries who were providing medical care to Jews in the late 19th early 20th century on the basis that they (the Jews they were caring for agreed to convert) and 2. Dr. Avraham Albert Ticho (1883-1960) (cousin and husband of the artist Anna Ticho) was invited to come to live and work in Jerusalem. Ticho set up an opthmalogical clinic at which he cared for all of Jerusalem's population (Jewish, Arab and Christian). The reason Dr. Ticho was invited to live and work in Jerusalem was to counteract the fact that when Jews went to the Augusta Victoria eye hospital they were converted to Christianity. Part of Dr. Ticho's tasks were to provide services for Jews without converting them to any other religion. The reason I have sounded off on this topic is because #10 Moshe B implied that there is something very wrong with people who undergo the conversion process to Judaism and I wanted to point out to him that his premise is incorrect and that in fact there are more issues to be found with some (not all) Jews born to Jewish mothers listed as Jews in the Population Registery of the Ministry of Interior but who are Christians and active Christian Missionaries. Thank you very much for reading. Best and Shabbat Shalom!
20. #17 Manny, Let's do a test...
that Jew ,   Jerusalem   (02.24.11)
How many of your Jews (I'll be liberal and define Jew thus: a Jew is anyone born of a Jewish woman or who has chosen to undergo the conversion process.) How many of your Jews currently living in the State of Israel are keeping Shabbat? How many of your Jews currently living anywhere in the world but outside of Israel are keeping Shabbat? "May-be we will see that both fail miserably and hopefully we will stop this "I'm more Jewish than you and so I can tell whether or not you are Jewish" scam!
21. 19 Thanks for the addl info. Shabbat shalom
Israeli ,   Israel   (02.24.11)
22. orthodox conversions
yankel ,   kfar saba   (02.24.11)
Reply to No 2 you ar ignorant modern orthodox is strictly halachic
23. Let me remind you all - Ruth was a convert..
telavivit ,   Israel   (02.25.11)
if you have forgotten....I am sure she didn't have to go through the trauma converts do these days....
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