Opinion
Dictating the narrative
Natalie Menaged
Published: 10.03.11, 13:05
Comment Comment
Print comment Print comment
Back to article
30 Talkbacks for this article
1. Problem with these kind of discussions is...
Carsten Schmidt ,   Germany   (03.10.11)
...that there is no partner for discussion. The anti Israel hate groups and individuals, which are typically from the extreme left or the extreme right, are mostly just that - anti Israel. They are not open to facts and figures, they plainly deny them. Some of them are violent or react violently when trying to discuss with them. They often do not shrink away from physically hurting people. We should much more often challenge them juridically. People who disturb academic events or physically threaten university staff or fellow students should be kicked out from university immediately.
2. The truth about Israel
peter ,   Amsterdam NL   (03.10.11)
The BDS campaign and the organizers of IAW focus selectively on one aspect of Israëli politics & society("...brutally oppressive regime...Apartheid...stopping Palestinians at checkpoints"). Unfortunately Natalie Menaged does the same in reverse: look at Israël through rose tinted spectacles("...a model of democracy, human rights...the West Bank, where Israel has had a presence since 1967, but does not control civilian affairs...). The truth is as usual more complex, meaning both of the above, a mix of both or somewhere in the middle. Propaganda or Hasbara is by nature one sided. Op-Eds need not be.
3. WHat a bunch of baloney...
Michael Steiner ,   Bahrain   (03.10.11)
(1) True. (2) Israel has no partner for peace? Yeah right, keep repeating it in the hope someone buys it. That was true ten years ago. It was true even five years ago. But it is not true today. The negotiations last fall fell apart due to Israel's stubborn insistence on continuing constructing the doomed settlements. (3) Hehehehehe The old Israeli Arab story. You pull that card whenever you want to show what a supposedly democratic and egalitarian country we are (ha!). Yet, when the issue of why there is hardly any investment in the Israeli Arab infrastructure, you "invite" them to get out of Israel if they don't like it. Not only that, but you make various calculations about how you'd happily "swap" Israeli Arabs for settlement blocs as part of a peace deal (you don't ask them how they feel about that though). I have defended and promoted Israel in places most of those reading these pages would never dare go even as a tourist, and will continue to do so. But this article is a load of bull. Yank the other one.
4. Come on
Giant Steps ,   Jerusalem, Israel   (03.10.11)
Seriously now, hasbara is no substitute for policy, especially not the hackneyed, shrill, Dershovitz-ian and vaguely panic-struck sounding lines suggested above. Additionally: 1. Criticizing Israeli policy does not require one to implicitly be understood as praising the governments of neighboring countries. 2. One can legitimately criticize Israeli policy, or even the existence of Israeli as a "Jewish state" (being mindful of the abuses of this phrase in some circles) without being "anti-Israeli", or even "anti-Zionist" as such. The authors' proposal would simply contribute to further dis-engaging diaspora Jews and indeed, the world at large, from Israeli discourse and from appreciating the sentiments of many reasonable Israelis. Decision-makers would do better to engage with constructive criticism of policy rather than trotting out tired tropes that have long outlived their "best before" date.
5. We should work the media
dshap ,   Miami USA   (03.10.11)
We should work the international media all year long. Trying to "battle" these groups during IAW is a losing proposition if Israel does not make a concerted year 'round campaign to educate the world as to the "conflict". Fact is, the haters will still hate us. I want to believe most on college campuses are thinkers. Educate them. They want to learn, they want a cause. Show them the right cause and they will support it.
6. #2, the truth is that BDS has been an utter failure
Danny   (03.10.11)
and has had zero impact on the Israeli economy or Israeli firms. Israel has had to deal with an arab boycott since its birth and has gone from strength to strength. As for dealing with the attempt to smear Israel, thats why there are libel courts, especially in Europe were most of this filth is coming out. Make it expensive for the liars to lie and they'll stop.
7. Hedy Epstein is not a Holocaust Survivor
David Stoler   (03.10.11)
Ynet needs to correct that information. She spent the entire war in England. She's as much a Holocaust Survivor as Winston Churchill.
8. #4 Hands-off the Jewish state
Menachem ,   Israel   (03.10.11)
"One can legitimately criticize ...the existence of Israeli as a "Jewish state" without being "anti-Israeli", or even "anti-Zionist" as such. Really? With your "logic" it is possible to denounce the existence of Denmark or Spain without being anti-Danish or anti-Spanish. Most Danes and Spaniards won't buy this crap and neither will most Israelis and friends of Israel. There is a word for singling out the Jewish people and attacking its national independence and it begins with the letter A....
9. Students make up the bulk of ignorant leftists
Dan ,   UK   (03.10.11)
When they join real life, their world view soon shifts.
10. Natalie, I could add more points for helping you
Salma ,   Palestine   (03.10.11)
4. "Israel" wants Peace process and not Peace . 5. "Israel" recognizes that the security coordination with the Palestinians had reached unprecedented levels, however it will not withdraw from the Palestinian West Bank. 6. "Israel" prevents any person who is not Jewish to return to his homeland. How the hell do they dare to say anything bad about "israel" ? ha.
11. arguments for aparthied week
moron ,   ghalut   (03.10.11)
look at map--israel is very small next to 22 arab states that want it to die--the pals have not had elections so no one there can deliver peace-and most important jordan is arab palestine and the jews deserve their own land just as do others
12. It's time to say:Screw you World and do it!!
tom ,   tel aviv   (03.10.11)
13. #3 - Michael Steiner
Shmuel L ,   Scottsdale, USA   (03.10.11)
2) No partner for peace? Sorry Michael, you still need to get your facts straight. The Arabs have yet to publicy prepare their population to recognize the existence of Israel as a Jewish State. Settlements have never been an issue when true peace is offered ( ex. Sinai). Unfotunately, we see the situation with Gaza, pullout from Lebanon and the giving of large swaths of Judea and Samaria to the PA only invited terrorism in return. Sorry dude, your argument is completely BOGUS 3) The egalitarian card. Yes there are inequities. But the Arabs have a big role in this by boycotting votes in thier municipalities and basically acting as a dangerous 5th column to the State. There is nothing morally wrong of separation the two peoples by swaping land with heavy concentrations of Arabs. It has been done in the past In Europe with success. Michael, stop drinking your Kool-Aid.
14. #10, yeah right
Danny   (03.10.11)
4) Palestinians want peace? So how come you have refused every single deal every offered? 5) Unprecedented? You mean different from when Palestinians were killing Israelis? 6) Israel - like every single other sovereign nation - doesn't stop anyone going to their homeland. What it does do is stop people that weren't born in Israel coming there. Did Israel stop you going to Jordan? Or Egypt?
15. why bother?
Y.G. ,   Tel Aviv   (03.11.11)
Why bother? They hate us. They always have and they always will. All the truth in the world is not going to 'cure' the mental illness that is anti-Semitism.
16. student revolt
tiki ,   belgium   (03.11.11)
It's about time that these students start to do what they are 'supposed to do at university....STUDY and some history classes might not be a bad idea. Now, if they would follow the news (instead of exposing their obvious Jew hatred and blatant ignorance), they would see what happens in the 'New Democratic Egypt after the 'revolution, where the Coptic minority is hunted, wounded and killed by their Muslim brothers with slogans calling for a Muslim state (with no place for others), while the 'army doesn't lift a finger to help them, on the contrary. We're also not talking about the democratic 'future of women in these New Democratic states. We're also not talking of all the Muslims killed by their Muslim brothers by the thousands every day without blinking an eye. Why don't they organise Protest Weeks and marches against this? Somebody realy should 'wise these 'kids up a little and bring these 'stupido's back to reality. They are pathetic. Students are in University to 'form themselves, not to 'reform Universities. Their 'Anti Apartheid slogans are an 'injustice to the real sufferers of apartheid, for it seems that these 'students don't have a clue what apartheid realy means and they won't find the answers in Israel.(South Africa & America would be a better place to understand the real meaning of "apartheid)
17. #3 Michael - even Abbas KNOWS the story is STALE
CK Tan ,   Singapore, Singapore   (03.11.11)
About your PARROTING that Israel's settlements are the peace OBSTACLE : The palis REFUSED to talk peace during the 10-month FREEZE and then, when it was almost over, only to DEMAND an extension WITHOUT committing that they will ENGAGE in the talks. And the palis REFUSED to support the US push for an Israeli freeze EXTENSION cos they CLAIM Israel benefited while they do not! Abbas has said PUBLICLY that peace is MORE important than settlements. Cos he KNOWS the "doomed settlements", as you described it, are NOT the crucial aspect of the final peace deal. After all, he saw Israel abandoned ALL its settlements when it unilaterally left Gaza. Since you are UNABLE to get such simple facts RIGHT, your "I have defended and promoted Israel" claim sounds more of BALONEY than bravery.
18. Until a few years most Americans did not know where Israel w
noa ,   israel   (03.11.11)
My high school transcripts were sent to Thailand. And now on campuses these self-proclaimed leaders of justice compare the real Apartheid in South Africa to Israel? Aren't their teachers or professors teaching them anything? Does America want to raise a country of ignorant idiots?
19. Redundant hasbara
Smith ,   TA, Israel   (03.11.11)
I increasingly get the impression that the political elite and its stooges in PR are dinosaurs. These are the same bloody arguments from 10-years ago! Let's face it. We've been caught flat footed and there is no explaining the occupation away. It's time to stop trying to persuade the world we're alright and sort out our own problems. Especially, the problem of 3 million Palestinians becoming increasingly integrated geographically into Israel proper thanks to the efforts of 300,000 settlers.
20. Natalie time to realise your propaganda doesn't work anymore
Miki ,   Australia   (03.11.11)
21. The truth hurt
Samy ,   Ny USA   (03.11.11)
Natalie, Just because you say it is not an apartheid does not negate the fact that it is apartheid. When you rule over and discriminate against the original inhabitants. it is an apartheid. And just because you keep saying a lie all the time does not constitutes a fact. Ariel Sharon started the Idiom painful sacrifices. and the only sacrificing Israel did was sacrificing the the Palestinians. For the issue no partner for peace. under what rock were you living the 3 months. recent leaks proved that Israel was not a partner for peace no matter what the Palestinian gave. Just listen to your Prime Minister. One man, One vote, One land.
22. "When they join real life, their world view soon shifts."
Raymond in DC ,   Washington, USA   (03.11.11)
Dan in the UK writes, "Students make up the bulk of ignorant leftists. When they join real life, their world view soon shifts." That reminds me of the old line that if one is not a liberal at 20. he has no heart; and if he is still a liberal at 40, he has no head. But this is hardly the general case. University faculties (admittedly, not real life) is full of 1960s radicals who never "grew up". The recent J Street conference had plenty of aging Jewish lefties still spouting the radical nonsense of their youth. I recall too the famous picture from the 2008 campaign of an Obama supporter, then a sitting judge, with a Che Guevara poster on his wall. Some people never get beyond that youthful foolishness.
23. Confused about Apartheid Argument
Ben B. ,   New York, NY   (03.11.11)
The biggest problem I have with the Apartheid argument, is that the argument tends to be. "Israel is an apartheid state because it does x and y." There is no mention of trying to define the word "apartheid." If one were to actually look up and define Apartheid, as I have done here, one would find the argument to be, quite simply, wrong. Israel has no official policy against any people of any race or religion. Look at its Declaration of Independence, and see if you can find anything that negates the right of one group. Quite simply, you can't. Apartheid is about De Jure policies, so the De Facto claims of the accusers are not relevant. http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/apartheid
24. Palestinian terrorists responsible for apartheid
Shahar ,   Haifa, Israel   (03.12.11)
About 20% of Israel's population are Arabs. They don't live in fenced in communities, as Jews do. Jews don't murder families in the night, like Arab terrorists do do Jews. Arabs in Israel work, receive scholarships to University and have complete freedom. If Muslims live in Israel, why shouldn't Jews live in Palestine? Last night a family of religious settlers were murdered in their sleep. Parents and four kids, including a baby, were knifed to death. I wonder if the monsters who did that thought that they were making their situation better, or even making a stab for justice because of these roadblocks. This is nothing like the bombings in Gaza or Lebanon, where Israel was trying to target Palestinian terrorists who are firing weapons at civilians. This was another case of cold blooded murderous terrorism. I wonder if they knew that similar crimes have been done against innocent Jews in Israel for over 80 years. They haven't stopped us from being here. They've only made the walls stronger, and the hope that good Arabs will stop the extremists weaker.
25. They were attacking us before 1967 too!
Shahar ,   Haifa, Israel   (03.12.11)
Arab extremists are responsible for their situation. People who call Israel's defensive measures "Apartheid" are blaming the victims for defending themselves. If over 1,000,000 Arabs in live in peace here, why shouldn't Jews be able to live in Palestine without being murdered in the night? I know that it is easy to get caught up up in the propaganda, but keep in mind where the responsibility is. If they would stop their extremists from attacking us, their lives would be much better. They would have had their own country over 60 years ago.
26. to Michael Steiner in Bahrain
Helena ,   Stockholm, Sweden   (03.12.11)
Dear Michael, I believe Israel will manage just fine without your efforts to improve Israel's image. We hardly need your favors, please offer them to others, by doing so the damage done by you could be reduced considerably. With friends like you - who needs enemies?
27. #19, well if the "occupation" was the issue
Danny   (03.12.11)
then why did Israel not get a bump when it ended it in Gaza and South Lebanon? Why did these campaigns start gathering pace at the same time Israel kicked off the Oslo process? How are 3 million palestinians getting integrated into Israel?
28. 40+ years of occupation and settlement building
(03.12.11)
Enough said about Israel's efforts for peace.
29. "Israel wants peace"
Michael ,   Haifa   (03.12.11)
Of course Israel wants peace, but apparently only on its own terms, as if the other side is non existent
30. rebuttal
Tom K ,   Canada   (03.14.11)
1. Your no partner for peace yourself, stop building on the other side of the fence. If Americans were doing that to Canadians, Mexicans we would be royally pissed off too. What effort you make eh? Keep on building on there side...Follow the K.I.S.S principal of construction. Keep. It. Simple. Stupid. That means building ON YOUR SIDE. 2. I have a whole history course in University that goes over Israeli Apartheid. Read Occupied Voices, Letter to Deportee, Or Isreali soldier tales from Hebron. SO WE ARE INFORMED, MAYBE YOU ARE NOT. 3. Gaza is worse off because 181 other countries view your blockade as Illegal. If 1 other country, yourself agrees with the blockade and the rest do not, get the crack pipe out of your mouth and head out of your ass. Next time bring some intelligence your argument lacks it thoroughly.
Back to article