Opinion
The West is clueless
Sara K. Eisen
Published: 14.03.11, 18:04
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29 Talkbacks for this article
1. For Ynet to have the courage to call them HUMAN BEASTS, wow!
(03.14.11)
Would never have believe it from pro-Arab Leftists media that they could write something normal, for a change.
2. Boy oh boy what happened to ynetnews
Gee ,   Zikron Yaakov   (03.14.11)
They are starting to get it. These Arab monsters need to get exactly what they dish out.
3. The west and Israel are LEADERLESS
BH ,   Iowa   (03.14.11)
That is the difference between people being evil in deed as well as thought. There are simply no consequences to committing evil acts. There is no deterrent before the fact. There is no punishment after the fact. PM's reaponse was devastatingly weak. BHO's response was in favor of our enemy! How would a Leader respond? A Leader would end the fake negotiations. He would then replace the anti-zionist FM and get every tender signed. He would then put all Judea and Samaria under full Israeli control, with all checkpoints reinstated. That would be the first two hours after the attack. Bottom line is this attack was Israel's Pearl Harbor. This is your 9/11. You have every right to be flattening arab cities in J&S right now. If only for some Leadership.
4. Kipling:East is East, West is West
Thomas ,   EU   (03.14.11)
The Berlin Wall still exists today - in figurative sense of course. The West is now in the same moral-intellectual position than the East was under Communism: rabidly anti-Israel, pro-Marxist, pro-Arab - that is, some 50-years behind the times. Look around; -the most vicious Antisemitism is coming from Westerners: Brits, Scandinavians, Spaniards.... Eastern European voices are more subtle with the dismantlement of the Bolshevik totalitarianism. The most hostile people are the Western Communists allied with the Islamofascits. We should avoid generalizations: there are anti-Zionist Bolshevik Jews, and Zionist Jews. There are friendly and hostile Westerners: we should give a more pedantic description whom we are talking about.
5. I have another word ...
Sarah B ,   U.S.A. / Israel   (03.14.11)
... which explains the holier-than-thou attitudes of countries in the West (east, north or south, for that matter). That word is "anti-Semitism." It never went away; with the establishment of the modern State of Israel, and the incredible strides made by the State of Israel, it merely morphed into a convenient focus for an age-old hatred. Of course, they assuage their consciences by proclaiming that they are not anti-Semitic, they are only anti-Zionist. Well, we aren't fooled. And if the Europeans and the Americans and every other Western country wants to delude themselves into believing that the culture that spawned the monsters that massacred five members of the Fogel family is any different from the culture that spawned monsters who blow up buses and restaurants and nightclubs and fly airliners into office buildings and blow up innocent commuters on trains in England and Spain -- well, there is precious little anyone can do about that sort of incredible self-delusion. Israel is a light unto the nations. But there is nothing we can do if the nations choose to deliberately blind themselves. Europe is a dying civilization; the United States is not very far behind. Israel the people and now Israel the nation have seen civilizations come, and we have seen them go. We will be here to eulogize the West as it sinks beneath the waves of its own incredible stupidity.
6. Thought-provoking article
Ishai ,   Jhb, SA   (03.14.11)
I am still thinking about the contents and message of this article, so I don't yet have an opinion. However, I've always had the same thought about modern-day reality shows and how there is something fundamentally and perversely wrong with them. They disguise themselves as quick, shallow, mindless entertainment, but many get the feeling that there is something unreal (excuse the pun), something rehearsed, and something unnatural about them. What effect they have on people who aren't able to separate fiction from reality is anyone's guess, but they do seem to reflect a disturbing direction in which 'Western Culture' is moving...
7. Action is required.
Israeli 2   (03.14.11)
Allow the settlers to have a free hand. The government seems to be incapable of doing what the settlers are capable of.
8. what's the author's point?
Western European ,   Western Europe   (03.14.11)
You guys wont like what I'm going to say next. But you should read twice and think twice before condemning my words. here it comes : I didnt call the IDF human animals during Cast Lead although 700 women and children died. I didnt condemn the IDF animals because of the 8000 rockets fired from Gaza. Some IDF soldiers might have behaved as human animals but not the IDF as a whole. Having said that : I do not condemn all the palestinains as human animals because they have slaughtered the Fogels in Itamar. Not the palestinians as a whole, although a few may have behaved like human animals. While the Hamas have used women and children as human shields, so did the Israeli government use some settlers as human shields. this is the tragedy of the middle east. You guys have awuful bad leaders, both sides, israeli as well as palestinians. Your leaders lie and cheat and fool you 24/7. Your leaders are cowards and liars, who do not dare to tell you guys the whole truth, eye to eye. As long as you guys will keep voting for the same politicians, you will not have peace. This is the tragedy of the middle east. Unfortunately this tragedy and cicle of stupid useless violence must be stoped, by force if necessary, by a third party
9. #8. Eastern European reply
Thomas ,   EU   (03.14.11)
I am Eastern European and you epitomize the absolute moral depravity and corruption of the West. You Leftists supported the Bolshevik tyranny, the Islamist terror against the Jews - Baader Meinhof, Red Brigade and the Western Communist-Marxist parties all rooted for the Soviet Union and harbored the terrorists. While we were rotting in the Gulag. Islamists are getting close to rule Western Europe by applying sheer violent rage that scare the sh*t out of your leaders. And you still regard the few Jews who survived your Death Camps as your enemy #1. You can spin words as much as you want, come up with pious prevarication like the fake mask of "humanist", fair arbiter between murderous Islamist and Jews living in a land of the size of a handkerchief. You are rotten to the core who don't tolerated the Jews among yourself and now they are out - now you are going after them in Asia. And meantime faking the role of the "enlightened übermensch."
10. What are Israel's Critical Security Needs? (Video) !!
(03.14.11)
http://emunadate.blogspot.com/2011/01/israels-critical-security-needs-for.html
11. To: No. 8
Sarah B ,   U.S.A. / Israel   (03.14.11)
1. Cast Lead was a military operation. It was a carefully conducted operation that sought to minimize civilian casualties. (How many countries do you know of that leaflet areas that are going to come under bombardment comfortably in advance of the bombardment? And is it Israel's fault if the terrorist elements in Gaza refused to allow civilians to leave those areas?) For that matter, is it Israel's fault that Hamas cached weapons in hospitals, mosques and schools? Is it Israel's fault that Hamas routinely hid in civilian areas when firing upon Israeli troops? If NATO had conducted as meticulous an operation in Afghanistan and Iraq as Israel conducted in Lebanon in 2006 and in Cast Lead, there probably wouldn't be tens of thousands of dead civilian noncombatants in Afghanistan and Iraq, would there? 2. By your own admission, you are Western European. You have the bloodletting of the Holocaust on your hands; you are therefore a long way away from having the right to criticize Israel. About anything. Particularly since the very things you accuse Israel of, the Europeans -- and certainly NATO -- have been guilty of, in spades. 3. Stopped by force, if necessary? By a third party? You must be on drugs. Are you prepared to challenge a nuclear power? Good luck with that one. Given how Europe has treated the Jewish people over the centuries, it wouldn't trouble our conscience one iota to speed your disappearance from the civilization to which you haven't contributed a thing in decades anyway. No great loss.
12. to #8, the enlightened Western European
Michael ,   New York   (03.14.11)
Pretty disingenous what you say. When was the last effective leader of a single Western European country to get Europe out of its morass of hand wringing about, "what to do about those Nazis, what to do about the influx of Muslims and further handwringing about everything else"? Churchill. Since then there hasn't been a single effective Western European leader worth anything. You Western Europeans have lots of blood on your hands from the inquisition to the holocaust and even now. So spare us your high and mightly diatribe about electing effective leaders. You don't have them either. Oh, and who do you think that third party should be, eh? Israel is an independent sovereign entity which will not be bent to the will of those who will see its demise, specifically Western Europe.
13. No shortage of emotionalism on this one
Cameron ,   USA   (03.14.11)
Snap & snarl!
14. The West is listening too much arab propaganda
Jorge ,   Israel/USA/Argentina   (03.14.11)
15. #8 Proud Euopean
Erudite ,   Australia   (03.15.11)
Please spare us with your jaded view as to what constitutes animal behaviour.Do you need to be reminded "Western European" the dark history of your continent.Perhaps look in recent times what the moral Belgiums did in Congo or maybe the cultured French in Algeria and while your there check out the Italians and the Germans.The coming days will reveal the true nature of your masquerade. The ugly European will emerge soon to repel the Islamic assault. The battle will be hard and you may retake your continent however in that process there will be hundreds upon hundreds of thousand dead. Then we shall see how moral "Western Europeans" are, and we will be reminded you are just as immoral and hypocritical as your past and present history.
16. To Sara B and Michael
George ,   Washington, DC, USA   (03.15.11)
I think the fact that Cast Lead was a military operation makes it worse. It's fine to call moral bankruptcy on the West, as long as you apply the same standard to yourself. The problem is that you're not. You use every example of a Jewish death as a rallying call to your cause, and explain away every action that your military takes without so much as a second glance. Who is morally bankrupt here? Definitely Israel, but maybe everyone.
17. George #16 just some facts since you seem not to have any
Gee ,   Zikron Yaakov   (03.15.11)
Cast Lead - Hamas admits that 2/3rds of the deaths were combatants. Do you know that this the LOWEST civilian to combatant ratio in the last 100 years of warfare by several factors? That is an absolute fact without any possible challenge. Do we regret the 1/3rd civilians that died, heck yes. But those are the fault of Hamas, not Israel. By the by that is exactly what the Geneva Convention states as well. So can we hold our head up? Hell yes, when you and the rest of the world RISE to our level then and only then have you anything to say. Until then shut the fuck up. Now when are you going to grant all American citizens the same rights that we Israelis already have? End your apartheid and start acting like a democracy.
18. #8, who might this "third party" be, pray tell?
Cameron ,   USA   (03.15.11)
Who is out there in that capacity?
19. West didn't become clueless overnight
AK   (03.15.11)
The Soviets had worked to indoctrinate the West, and ,yers, that includes Israel and planted the seeds. What you are seeing is a mindless society 3 generations later. Now, facts are becoming increasingly irrelevant, truth doesn't matter; just watch the news reports or read anything written by our semi-educated intellectual class, listen to their arguments and weep.
20. #16 Cast Lead was defensive
Cynthia ,   USA   (03.15.11)
Thousands of kassams bashed Israel before the IDF launched their response. Hamas refused to listen to ceasefire requests from Israel, the US, UN and EU. Israel warned the residents of Gaza by leafleting the area by air to get out of the way. If 85 kassams per day were launched at your neighborhood in Washington DC, you would be screaming bloody murder and have no time for judgmental baloney.
21. Thomas! Well said
Ilana   (03.15.11)
and the others that said similar. People like the western European make me sick-ugh. The conniving, lying fox -uh human!
22. Gee
Joanne   (03.15.11)
Thank you
23. #16
Israel Israeli ,   Tel Aviv   (03.15.11)
Cast Lead was a defensive operation (Hamas kidnapped Shalit and attacked Israel with rockets) where at most 1/3 of casualties were civilians, as #17 says, the lowest collateral damage ratio known and legal according to the 4th Geneva convention. No one knows why the US is In Afghanistan, but Obama kills about 2 civilians for every rebel. From the "tanker" affair it is clear that Obama violates the Geneva convention and is a war criminal by not taking reasonable care not to hurt civilians. Come back with your criticism after you leave Afghanistan and bring Obama to justice.
24. Moral Bankruptcy - George #16
Tanjya Anderson ,   Copenhagen,Denmark   (03.15.11)
George wrote: "Who is morally bankrupt here? Definitely Israel, but maybe everyone." The immediate thought that came to my mind when reading this sentence engaging in moral equivalence that perhaps everyone is morally bankrupt was an incident from the 1920s involving then-Harvard president A. Lawrence Lowell. Lowell decided that the number of Jews admitted to Harvard should be reduced because "Jews cheat." When a distinguished alumnus, Judge Learned Hand, pointed out that Protestants also cheat, Lowell responded, "You're changing the subject; we're talking about Jews." (Source: Alan M. Dershowitz,The Case for Israel, 2003, pg. 2) George - your singly out Israel stems from one thing and one thing only - your visceral and irrational hatred of the Jewish people. Sincerely, Tanja
25. No friggin' way...
Uri ,   Brussels, Belgium   (03.15.11)
Has Ynet finally come to its senses? About bloody time!
26. great insight by author
Mirage Man ,   New York, USA   (03.15.11)
A very insightful and well written article.
27. Simple minds are easily amused.
Heather Czerniak ,   Mississauga, Canada   (03.15.11)
Americans seek only gratification when they know the end of paradise is imminent. Imagine the confusion among anthropologists 1,000 years from now, as they sift through artifacts and try to figure out how such an advanced society could self-destruct so quickly, even though they uncover no evidence of how it happened.
28. Wild animals and beasts
Charlie ,   Tel Aviv   (03.16.11)
such as lions will kill the cubs sired by another male so as to get to mate with the lioness and extend their lineage, so yes those human beasts who slaughtered the baby are behaving in a similar fashion in an attempt to advance their 7th century culture over the more advanced ones.
29. Eye opener
Airborne ,   Israel   (03.16.11)
Every newspaper should print this article.
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