Opinion
When words lead to murder
Yochanan Visser
Published: 18.03.11, 00:47
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31. To 3
Sam M ,   UK   (03.18.11)
You don't support your sanctimonious opinions with any historical facts. Just the usual slogans always a sure sign that people like you have nothing meaningful to contribute to a debate. Judea and Samaria is historically an indisputable part of the Jewish homeland whether you like it or not. Hebron, for example, is the site of the oldest Jewish community in the world, dating back to Biblical times. It has been inhabited by Jews for thousands of years apart from a brief period following the 1929 massacre of the local Jewish population by arabs. Prior to the1960's the 'palestinians' only ever identified themselves historically and culturally as arabs. Never as palestinians. Numerous quotes confirming this from many arab sources can be found on the internet by anyone prepared to make the effort. Jordan occupies 77% of the original Palestine Mandate originally promised to the Jewish people while three quarters of it's population are palestinians. Jordan is the real palestinian homeland. Your feeble attempt to deny a historically valid claim clearly identifies you as an ignoramus who has great difficulty stringing together a sentence let alone a coherent argument.
32. #9, ben jabo: i guarantee it.
eporue ,   europe   (03.18.11)
leave the west bank, and there will be no attacks on settlers anymore. i also guarantee, that the country doesnt have more problems (with the west bank, lol), when the settlers have left.
33. Our worst enemies are not the foreign press, but people like
Abraham Nachmias ,   Petach Tikva IL   (03.18.11)
34. #32 eporue Your Guarantee Phoeey
BEN JABO ,   ISRAEL   (03.18.11)
There were attacks from the West Bank before the Jewish settlments were ever in place However, if you want to place a Guarantee, escrow funds will be required Just let us know your name, name of the bank, your account number, in order that we can take some of that money and hold it aside as security We will also need your photo, just in case the funds aren't adequate and you decide to skip out without coughing up more money We may have to look for you
35. To#31
Stan ,   Israel   (03.18.11)
Sam I'm with you all the way, only first persuade 198 states at the UN that GREATER ISRAEL is the answer to all the worlds problems in the ME. Maybe if we were big and strong like Russia or China we could force our will on everybody. Unfortunately G-D doesn't do miracles these days.
36. to #4
Stan ,   Israel   (03.18.11)
Sarah B 1. You dont have a clue do you ? 20 years ago Rabin expelled 300 Hamas leaders to Lebanon. Lebanon did not accept them so they spent the freezing Lebanese Winter in tents across the border from Israel. A year later we had to allow them to return to Gaza. 2. If you are so pro the settlers, why arn't you with them ???? 3 I have lived in Israel for 50 years.and for the past 40 years I have understood that this occupation will bring us no good. There is no such thing as a "benelovent occupation" The Pales. hate us just as the Jews here hated the British when they were "the occupiers" 4 If we dont get out of Yosh soon we will be in danger of loosing the whole of Israel.
37. #34 - ben jabo: i understand, you settlers are not among the
eporue ,   europe   (03.18.11)
(major) taxpayers in israel... the citizens of israel are paying and sponsoring YOUR security needs, with special guards, IDF around, with electronic fences, all your streets, schools there, electricity and water supply... a LOT of taxpayer-money would be saved, if there were NO SETTLEMENTS... if you leave the settlements, then this will NOT cause more attacks (on israel), as settlements do NOTHING to prevent them right now... the contrary is the case.
38. To Mr's Sarah B
Luiz Felipe Haddad ,   Brazil   (03.18.11)
Dear Mr's Sarah B. I use to read your comments in Ynet and I think very much about them. About your views that Israel must annex Judea and Samaria, and repatriate Arab Palestines to Jordan; the same from other "talkbacks", I ask you, as Israelian friend and supporter: What will happen if they refuse to go and Israel needs to act with military forces? How the world will react, specially USA and European Union, and others like Turkey and Iran? How will IDF avoid violent clashes with a lot of casualties? And about indemnizations? And about much harm to Hebrew State's prestige? Don't you think Israel will be more isolated? Forgive me. I make these questions as a brother, not as an adversary. I salute you again.
39. To: No. 37
Sarah B ,   U.S.A. / Israel   (03.18.11)
This Israeli taxpayer does not mind supporting the brave Jewish pioneers in Judea and Samaria. I think you will find that the overwhelming majority of Israelis, like me, do not mind one bit. (Pretty nervy of you, assuming that you know how Israelis feel about things.) The attacks upon our brave pioneers will end the instant Israel annexes Judea and Samaria and repatriates the heathen squatters to Jordan, country of their citizenship.
40. To: No. 32
Sarah B ,   U.S.A. / Israel   (03.18.11)
The only thing you are in a position to guarantee is the quantity of drugs and alcohol you will consume in any given day, which doubtless isa major contributing factor to your illogical rants and defective thought processes.
41. #37 eporue - can you READ (redux) ?
CK Tan ,   Singapore, Singapore   (03.18.11)
Obviously NOT! My toes THANK you for the LAUGHS, eporue.
42. This domestic demonization serves gov't purposes
Marcella   (03.18.11)
Jews need to carefully watch their speech whenever they discuss the subject of PA Arabs. But there is full freedom of speech when it comes to the denigration of settlers. The subject of expulsion, for example, is OK for Jews only. This serves government ultimate purposes because increased demonization of settlers will ease their eventual expulsion. Israelis everywhere should have been outraged at the events in Gush Katif. But they didn't care. They didn't care about Amona either. And they won't care about Judea, Samaria and E. Jerusalem Jews, when their time comes. Greater support for settlers is the last thing this government wants.
43. Sarah B, again writing funny things? Unworkable nonsense.
Michael ,   California, USA   (03.18.11)
44. To 35
Sam M ,   UK   (03.18.11)
Stan, Sadly you're right. No miracles today but tomorrow who nows......the middle east is very unpredictable as we all know!
45. To: No. 38 - Part 1 of 2
Sarah B ,   U.S.A. / Israel   (03.18.11)
1. If the ersatz "Palestinians" refuse to return to Jordan following an Israeli annexation of the non-sovereign territories of Judea and Samaria, then they will be forcibly removed. As a sovereign state, Israel has every right to remove undesirable aliens from within its borders. 2. I don't really care how the world will react. Do I care about how the world reacts when the United States deports illegal aliens from Mexico, Honduras, Guatemala or any other country? If the world does not act negatively about those deportations, then the world has no right to protest Israel's fully legal repatriations. Moreover, where was the world when nearly one million Jews were expelled from their homes in Arab and Moslem lands -- with little more than the clothes on their backs -- following Israel’s victory in the War of Independence? Where was the world when tens of thousands more were forced from their homes following Israel’s victory in the Six Day War? Israel will compensate the ersatz “Palestinians” for their homes and properties which will be left behind; they will be allowed to leave with all their personal possessions, bank accounts and other holdings. But they will have to leave – and they will be allowed to leave in far better circumstances than the Jews who were expelled from Arab and Moslem lands had to endure. Sorry. 3. Turkey and Iran? Well, let's see. Turkey -- how many Armenians did they massacre? How many Kurds have they massacred, and continue to massacre? So who cares what Turkey may say. As to Iran -- a somewhat longer list of brutal repression, here. The Ba'hai; the Kurds; Sunni Moslems; Christians; Zoroastrians; homosexuals; substance abusers -- these are all routinely murdered in Iran. So who cares what Iran has to say about anything? 4. Why should the will of the State of Israel to carry out fully legal measures (such as repatriation of foreigners) be perverted? Frankly, I don't care whether the ersatz "Palestinians" go peacefully or not so peacefully -- just so long as they go. It really is up to them; if they wish to engage in suicidal clashes -- well, that would be extremely foolish, wouldn't it? Repatriating them to Jordan is doing them a favor -- they are never going to get a state in the West Bank; may as well go to Jordan, depose the phony Iraqi monarchy, and assert Jordan as the ersatz "Palestinian" state. Eighty percent of the population of Jordan is, after all, ersatz "Palestinian."
46. To: No. 38 - Part 2 of 2
Sarah B ,   U.S.A. / Israel   (03.18.11)
5. Israel has existed in a perpetual state of isolation since modern statehood. The only thing that will satisfy the international community is if Israel were to cease to exist. So what the international community thinks is completely irrelevant. 6. It is not the "Hebrew" State; it is the "Jewish State" or the "State of Israel." Hebrew is a language. 7. "Indemnizations?" Do you mean "indemnification?" What on earth for? Look -- Israel has had to endure six wars; all started by the Arabs and won by Israel. Israel has had to endure seven decades of unrelenting Arab terror. Certain rights and privileges accrue to the victor in a war (not to mention SIX wars), particularly as concerns non-sovereign land acquired in the course of fighting a defensive war. We will NOT live in a constant state of siege. Nor are we willing to go back to pre-1967 borders. East Jerusalem and the Golan Heights have already been annexed; the international community got over it. They'll get over Israel's annexation of Judea and Samaria, too. And if they don't -- they don't. I really could care less. What are they going to do, challenge Israel militarily? I don’t think so. I really don’t think so. Given the incredible instability that is coursing through the Arab and Islamic world, it really does the West -- and the world, for that matter -- a considerable amount of good to have ONE responsible, democratic country upon which it can depend. The Europeans are a lost cause -- they have worshipped at the altar of multi-culturalism for far too long, and it has cost them; only now are they beginning to acknowledge that multi-culturalism was nothing more than a silly illusion. Of course, they have that pesky little problem of huge Islamic and Arab minorities that are belligerent and not in the least bit interested in assimilating into the greater culture, but -- hey -- that's Europe's problem. Not Israel's. Finally – you claim Lebanese Christian roots. Who do you think came to the aid of the Lebanese Christian community when they were being slaughtered by the ersatz “Palestinians?” It wasn’t Europe. It wasn’t the United States. It wasn’t fellow Arabs. It was Israel. Please remember that and, with that memory firmly ensconced, offer a silent thanks to the Israelis for without our intervention, there would not be a single Christian left in all of Lebanon. The world forgets that. I hope you don’t.
47. To: No. 43
Sarah B ,   U.S.A. / Israel   (03.18.11)
Opinions are all well and good, Michael, but at least I support mine with facts, citations to the law and to history. You offer up grandiose statements with absolutely nothing to back them up (which is understandable because, for the most part, you are unable to back up anything you write). But rather than trying to embarrass me (it didn't work; it never does) and issuing platitudes, how about a little substance every now and again?
48. Agreed that Peace = Democratic Jordan as Palestine
Dan   (03.18.11)
absolutely agree with you Y , N Palestinians east of the Jordan River. Gazans to Egypt. So simple. But the Arab/Muslim world is intent of having Islam win, and Israel falter… and they'll keep winning until the next war, when they'll be set back to the stone age where they belong culturally (due to Islam). We've all had enough. Too bad Israel wants to take its time when as you mention, now is the perfect timing to redraw the lousy borders. Btw, Sinai must be returned back to Israel now that we know peace will not be upheld by Muslim Brotherhood Egypt.
49. why it s the Sarah B TBer show!
(03.18.11)
grrrl its the weekend get off the computer and go play in traffic... get out of the house get a new perspective!
50. #37 eporue - First of all
BEN JABO ,   ISRAEL   (03.18.11)
I'm NOT a settler, who in fact are Jews living in their own homeland By ass uming as much, you're making an ass out of yourself How we spend our money is none of your concern, unless you have contributed some of your own, or are a citizen who has the right to vote, and then you can make your views known by voting Since you're pretending expertise on what settlements do or don't do, back it up with some statistics The major impact of the settlements is that have prevented the enemy from launching another war from those same areas, which they lost because of those very same wars Keep on batting the breeze; I enjoy talking to someone who doesn't know what it's all about You're guarantee is like the UN Peace Keeping efforts in Lebanon, not worth a hoot
51. Sarah, your facts are wrong ...
Michael ,   California, USA   (03.18.11)
you invent or twist information. We have locked our horns several times on this board and you came up with unsupported, unreasonable claims every time. For instance, when I gave you technical information, you twisted words. Or, you accused President Obama of lacking support, which claim I proved to you was unsubstantiated, based on wrong numbers from polls. Your classical reply is "Israel has the atom bomb" or "I don't care what the world thinks." As to the current issue, this topic, the writer from Brazil, #38 Haddad, told you exactly why you are wrong. Now you have posted a two-part reply to him full of demagoguery. Here, I quote: "I don't really care how the world will react ...." Is this a valuable statement from a thinking person about transferring Palestinians from Yesha to Jordan? Note, I am giving herein the justification you claim I don't provide even though it's total bizbuz zman, a waste of my time.. Shabbat shalom.
52. Thank you, Mr's Sarah B.
Luiz Felipe Haddad   (03.18.11)
Thank you, Mr's Sarah B, for your detailed answers. I do understand your considerations, that are so important for my reflections, not only as a jurist but also as a (true) Christian, friend of the suffered and strong Jewish people. I will never forget what Israel has done for my Catholic Lebanese ascendents. I am proud to support Israel since I was a teenager. Shalom.
53. To: No. 51
Sarah B ,   U.S.A. / Israel   (03.19.11)
Michael, you are deluding yourself. I do not twist words -- you simply dig yourself into a hole; each time, every time. (Rather tiresome, really.) I have supported everything I have ever said with specific citations, documentation and links. You just throw out unsupported statements and pass them off as "facts." Obama's support is hovering around 40%, with a 3% margin of error. Do you need a cite for that, or are you clever enough to google "Obama approval rating" all by your lonesome? (Hint: Rasmussen is probably the most reliable poll out there.) Judge Haddad asked ME for MY opinion and MY reaction to his statement. He did not ask me to present the view of the State of Israel. He asked ME for MY opinions. So I gave them. Not too difficult a concept to grasp, really. By the way -- you still haven't offered up anything documented. You are still spouting nonsense off the top of your head. But you see, unlike Judge Haddad, who asked for MY reaction, I am not interested in YOUR reaction. I wanted documented facts and citations and -- predictably enough -- you have provided nothing but your opinion, in which I am not in the least bit interested.
54. To: No. 49
Sarah B ,   U.S.A. / Israel   (03.19.11)
"Go play in traffic?" Do your mommy and daddy know that you are playing on the computer when you are supposed to be doing your homework? You are quite the imbecile, little boy (or girl) -- predictably enough, you chose to remain anonymous.
55. To #37 Sarah B
Stan ,   Israel   (03.19.11)
Enough already ! You spew out words that have no connection with reality. Show me a poll that was done among taxpayers in Israel which says that most support Yosh. Among those Israelis who are in favour of keeping Yosh the vast majority pay very little or dont pay taxes at all. If you love Israel face up to reality !
56. LMAO @SarahB@54 & u chose 2 ignore my comment @28
AMP ,   Jerusalem   (03.19.11)
Did you forget the very important American saying: "Silence is consent"? And since you responded to just about every single comment on this board excepting mine @28 you have proven by your silence that you consent and agree with it! So it is we are in agreement: "facts can be manipulated"! All of the rest my dear Sarah B is just babbling, bumbling, commentary! Perhaps instead of #49 "going to play in traffic" as you suggest, the one who should "go play in traffic" (or perhaps better "go get thee a life") my cantakourous, frustrated, self rightous woman is YOU! It occurs to me to slighly misquote William Shakespeare from "Much Ado About Nothing": "In the time and place where it is appropriate we will remember that you are an A$$!" Sarah B, to you, little lifeless lady with the sharp TBing tongue & fingers: A hearty 'Shabbat Shalom' from a fair weather warm spring Jerusalem!
57. To AMP, #56
Tahl   (03.19.11)
Tell me, have you ever tried playing chess simulataneously against dozens of players - and score a decisive win in all the games? Naturally, in such position one cannot devote 100% of his or her undivided attention to one single player. Such is the challenge of taking on so many rivals. And yet, Sarah B assumes this role tirelessly and meticulously in this forum, in each article exposing and disposing of all those who come there with ill intentions against Israel - in the same mastery a chess grandmaster would dispose of his novice rivals. So she missed one talkback, and you're making a feast of it, and call her ugly names. Better enjoy this while you can. Rest assured that once she gets to you, she could eat you for breakfast. P.S. What kind of a hypocrite spits so much poison against someone, and then assumes cynical faux-friendliness with a "hearty Shabbat Shalom" greeting?
58. #57 it has been brought to our attention....
We are 'Q' ,   everywhere   (03.19.11)
1. that every single time someone, doesn't matter who, scores a big point against Sarah B, you come out from under the pile to defend her. We are investigating and will soon issue a report on this matter. 2. Sarah B. should learn to be selective in her chess games as she is still a very young and inexperienced player. We will be kind to her and will remind her that the reason Napoleon fell from power was because he pompously attempted to control all land and countries between Spain and Russia. We will be kind and strongly suggest to Sarah B. that she immediately cease and desist from her futile attempts at controling the way that others think. Q has many, many worthier and wiser servants than Sarah B. She should rest! 3. regarding your p.s. Sarah B. is meanspirited and foul mouthed at will, towards anyone she choices to be meanspirited and foul mouthed too. When she learns humility and stops we will stop too! Q has spoken, you may begone!
59. #57 hope the she's getting paid 4 it. cause that's a great..
(03.19.11)
deal of time and energy she's putting into this and if she's giving it up for free well you know...as they say in the projects: For free? She be a fool alright!
60. #50 - ben jabo: you couldnt bring up anything, that settleme
eporue ,   europe   (03.19.11)
nts contribute to the society.. => they contribute absolutely NOTHING (positive) ! they are only bad for israel : internationally and nationally - as they only cost a lot of money, split the people, and cause clashes and murder. settlers say, they stay there because you love the bible. if they would love their people, they would leave.
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