Opinion
Israelis, stop whining
Alexander Goldenstein
Published: 11.08.11, 18:23
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66 Talkbacks for this article
1. Geat article -so true!
Mike ,   TA   (08.11.11)
2. sounds reasonable to me
Wade ,   NYC USA   (08.11.11)
3. Nice!!!
AJ - Raalte   (08.11.11)
Exactly to the point!
4. Gut gesugt!
Sari Simon ,   Netanya, Israel   (08.11.11)
Mr. Goldenshtein has articulated my own sentiment quite well. There is a housing problem and an inflation problem but those protesting are not remotely those suffering. That is despite the wasted money on tents and camping out rather than attending to responsibilities at home.
5. Foreign Interferance
Mary Snow ,   USA   (08.11.11)
Foreign governments and foreign organizations are undoubtably involved in these protests. It doesn't take a scientist or PhD to figure that out. I support more housing if it does not affect defense and building is allow to occur in Judea and Samaria, and if it does not cause the housing bubble to burst. But I do not support foreign intervention in order to overthrow a democratically elected government. A investigation needs to be done by the media and by the government to look into the funding of these organizations that are doing most of the protesting. These protests are not cheap someone or some foreign entity must be paying for this.
6. Very good and true!
Abraham Nachmias ,   Petach Tikva IL   (08.11.11)
Seems to be that Tel Aviv is a must for many people, so why are they not ready to pay for that?
7. Alexander Goldstein vs Whining
shlomo ,   Jerusalem   (08.11.11)
Hurray for Alexander Goldstein! And for the hundreds of thousands of Israelis like him. I have five kids, pay extra tuition (lots of it) to send my kids to religious schools, my wife and I work full time, my car is old (ten years) and my bank account heavily overdrawn. But we're not interested in yet another fantasy Socialist Paradise. Generations of the socialist Labor Party did enough damage to the State of Israel. We'll manage with capitalism, thank you. Let's make the place better, not destroy it with selfish stupidity.
8. good article, Alexander
Julie ,   Israel   (08.11.11)
I agree with you. Too soft, too spoiled. Many young Israelis (and other nationalities) have forgotten what the difference is between "want" and "need". An 11 year old child who has a 14 inch tv on his bedroom wall, sitting above his state-- of- the- art computer which sits on the desk right next to his 8000 nis stereo system can only be expected to whine, whimper, and whoos when he finds, as an adult, that he actually must earn money to have what he desires. This age of "entitlement" must stop. The idea of several vacations a year (abroad) never occurred to the hard workers of yesteryear. And by the way, walking through the tent city in Haifa, I see that most of the tentees are young adults who have made themselves at home with couches and armchairs. Honestly, they are having a great time....like a summer camp out... just bring the marshmallows. During the depression years, there were no government handouts. And people worked at whatever job they could to just barely feed their families. They had self respect and honour and were not afraid to do menial, physical hard labour if that is what it took to survive. Some people just need to grow up and take responsibility.
9. Israelis, Stop Whining
Ed Codish ,   Pardessiya, Israel   (08.11.11)
Alexander Goldenshtein must know that his essay will not change anyone's mind. He makes no attempt to establish common ground, offers no evidence, chooses examples tendentiously (Greece, Spain, Ireland, but not Sweden, Denmark, Norway), and above all totalizes his unnamed opponents by referring to them as "they," "them" and "those people." I taught rhetoric for many years, and would never have read past the fourth sentence were this a student paper. Goldenshtein, it seems, is writing only for "my friends and I..." The entire attempt could be summarized as "I don't like those people even if I partly agree with them." And it should have been so summarized. There is no reason at all to criticize such writing in any detail. Ed Codish
10. Common sense, bravo.
Terry ,   Eilat - Israel   (08.11.11)
But don't lose sight of the reality of life in Israel. The cost of living is far too high, salaries much too low. Everyone is not a spoiled brat like your artist friends, many hard-working people cannot make ends meet. But, we must always ask why this is so, not slogans or lunatic leftist ideas but why our economy is dominated by oligarchs (some call them tycoons) who exploit the hell out of us with the cooperation of sleezy politicians, corrupt bureaucrats, & powerful labour unions in the public sector. This is what we must work to change & not be distracted by the wacko Left or those with an agenda financed by foreign interests. Otherwise, bravo, you're a real mentsh.
11. A level-headed analysis
Ian ,   Newcastle upon Tyne   (08.11.11)
This needed saying.Asking the government to provide what's impossible,immediately,like some protesters are,is ridiculous. The government has to facilitate the framework in which people provide for themselves,not provide everything for them. (I think that the final paragraph of the article needs amending to make proper sense.Possible all the 'how NOT's should be replaced with 'nor how NOT's) THREE CHEERS FOR ISRAEL!!!
12. Young man you sound jealous!
(08.11.11)
13. aptly written
kez ,   kl   (08.11.11)
wow! so true and aptly put .... human nature in general are never satisfied or contented and they like to whine most of the time but do like to consider the most taken for granted gifts from God, the breath in their lungs 24/7/365 and their five perfect senses!
14. Excellent, excellent piece of writing.
Mea   (08.11.11)
It is heart warming to see this article which so aptly describes how many of us feel here in America too. For literally decades I have been telling people that it is sick that half million dollar mortgages are given to 25 year olds, that every family has TWO new SUVs. What do we have to show for the last 40 years if gluttony? Super fat, sick, depressed, uneducated and outraged citizens with too much anti-depressants in them to fight back. It is the perfect storm of global societal collapse. I strongly suggest Israel avoid becoming like America.
15. #6 A.M. They want to buck the market.
Ian ,   Newcastle upon Tyne   (08.11.11)
The last time that Britain was put on a course for prosperity,1980s and 1990s,it came about because the governments of the time finally realized that you cannot buck markets.It's no good throwing money down a black hole trying to.It was painful but necessary. Blair and Brown didn't take in the lesson.Look at the mess that they got Britain into by throwing our money around at everything and solving nothing. THREE CHEERS FOR ISRAEL!!!
16. the song is by the Doors
benjamin ,   tel aviv   (08.11.11)
and the lyrics are "we want the world and we want it now". Another point: the real economic distress is not being felt by spoiled actors but by ordinary working people whose salaries are too low while prices are too high. This entire article is based on a stereotype that only holds true for a very small number of the people supporting the protests.
17. Unlike this 'journalist'...
David ,   Haifa   (08.11.11)
... and his readers, most young Israelis do not have a party and/or a state that takes care of their interests, mainly because they happen to be secular and to have Hebrew as their mother-tongue.
18. Protests are indication of leftist desperation.
Chaim ,   Israel   (08.11.11)
Both election results and public opinion polls prove the Israeli left is becoming less relevant every year. The left's flagship parties, Labor and Meretz, are being voted out of existence. Recent polls show almost 80% of Israeli Jews oppose ceding Judea and Samaria. The protests are an indication of leftist desperation. As Israel grows increasingly patriotic and observant; they are the last gasp of the leftist dinosaur. However, the real solution to the housing crisis is not appeasement or socialism. It is massive Jewish building in Judea and Samaria.
19. It Might be A Long Hot Summer
Noah Lev ,   HollywoodUSA   (08.11.11)
David has some interesting points.He notes that the secular young, people who only speak Hebrew are victimized. Perhaps they shoul form their own party..call it the Secular Young Sabras, or something like that. Then they can form coalitions..and decide whether Kadima, Labor, NRP, Likud..best represents their inerests. With an aging population, the demographis (as elsewhere) is shifting in their favor. Look, @ 20% down payment for a home now in the USA..fewer qualify and it takes 15 years to save the pmt. The prior low interest giveaway led to the bubble. 30m are undmployed..the Fed govt is renting millions of homes they own through Fanni May and Freddie Mac. Will it work, who knows? There are n easy solutions to a country's economic woes. But REFUSING to meet with the govt (Weinstein), is tantamount to the Pales refusing to meet with Bibi and discuss everything..oh I forgot, Bibi demands Israel remain a Jewish state, which the Arabs wont accept ( state for all its people). To my Jewish brethren, I live near Beverly Hills, Westwood, Brentwood and Bel Air. Down the coast is Newport Beach, up the coast is Malibu.. Rentals/and home prices are 10 times other adjacent areas, where I live. Sure, if I were a millionaire/billionaire (per Obamas definition) I would relocate. I own an old car that goes from point A to point B. I dont have a Lexus or even an expensive Honda. My food is bought at local supermarkets..not gourmet. I went to school, and Hebrew school 2 hrs/3 days week afterwards. No expensive yehivas for me. I am aware that Hitler had plans for my people, had he won AND for the 500,000 Palestinian Jews ( SS divisions were forming in Greece). Rommel lost, thank God. Are Israelis spoiled, you bet. But the govt should also consider making apts available at reasonable rentals...and develop those natural gas fields off the coast..while Lebanon fumes. Oh btw, if the Charedi were to be employable...and serve in the army or national service..would that help the overall society? Israel should look into it , no exemptions. Besides, Abbas will get the UNGA to approve their new state to the 67 borders. Already, 119 flags are waving near Ramallah..of the countrys that will support the bid. It might be a long hot summer.
20. Talkbacks re Goldenshtein
Ed Codish ,   Pardessiya, Israel   (08.11.11)
I rarely "talkback" because, as here, the talkbackers offer only agreement or disagreement, and there is truly no reason to care what the great majority of writers thinks, or for readers to care what I think unless it is original and offered with evidence. But I do find it sad that people call this essay well written. The quality of writing is altogether independent of whether the reader agrees or disagrees with the writer. There are objective standards, and Goldenshtein's writing is terrible. I hope there is a better version in what I assume is the original Russian, but I doubt it. I am embarrassed for those who admire such prose. Ed Codish
21. #14Mea"avoid becoming like America"
Ian ,   Newcastle upon Tyne   (08.11.11)
And I strongly suggest that Israel avoid becoming like New Labour Britain. And also I strongly suggest that America avoid becoming like New Labour Britain by getting rid of New Labor Obama at the first opportunity. THREE CHEERS FOR ISRAEL!!!
22. #17David: Test Israel's democracy at elections
Ian ,   Newcastle upon Tyne   (08.11.11)
It looks to me that David is engaging in whining.If he doesn't think that his interests are being represented by government,his course is clear. As far as I'm aware,Israel has free fair elections to the Knesset based on party lists.Form a party of like minded people and put forward a list in the next election. THREE CHEERS FOR ISRAEL!!!
23. #5 u r correct start by getting rid of the foreign born...
(08.11.11)
Mr. Goldenstein! oh that doesn't make any sense does it? Well then apply the same rule to your ridiculous post!
24. #16 - wrong song
davidd ,   teaneck, NJ USA   (08.11.11)
"I want it all" is by Queen (1989).
25. Perfection doesn't exist
Meir ,   Toronto   (08.11.11)
From what I know it seems that real estate is over priced in Israel. Perhaps something can be done to ease the situation.However, if you can live in the suburbs - Holn, Bat Yam etc-for much less than in Tel Aviv, then people should move there. I live in a suburb of Toronto and drive 25 kms each way daily. It takes over 1 hour. I can't afford to live in central Toronto. Thats life.
26. so Russians are not participating?
Yanni   (08.11.11)
they are tough cookies, toughened by rough living
27. Good article, but wrong about Bat Yam vs. Boston
Dan ,   USA   (08.11.11)
The author makes some good points, but he is way off the mark when he states that he "must pay for an old apartment in Bat Yam the same price as a place in downtown Berlin or Boston." I don't know about Berlin, but if you search craigslist for a two-bedroom apartment in downtown Boston or even nearby, you will be hard-pressed to find anything habitable in the range of the $950 per month that the author pays in Bat Yam. In downtown Boston, $2000 is a bargain, $3000-$4000 is more in the likely range. Here is where the author exhibits some of the same magical thinking as the protest movement: that Israel is somehow different, that in America and everywhere else, life is easy, and people can have their cake and eat it too. I hate to spoil the party, but guess what? In America as well, you cannot live in a cosmopolitan downtown and have all the amenities of a cosmopolitan lifestyle without having to pay for it. I live in a drab suburb 45 minutes train ride from Manhattan, and I pay nearly $2000 a month just to live in clean, two-bedroom apartment in a building that isn't run-down, bug-infested, or overtaken by criminals and "guest workers" (yes, we have those too). Believe me, although the money is greener here, the grass is not. The author is correct when he says that people should stop whining. Be happy and grateful for what you have and live with it.
28. great article!
AT ,   Boston, MA   (08.11.11)
29. Surprising that a deputy editor reveals such a limited under
Dirk ,   Zofit, Israel   (08.11.11)
30. No denying
Paul ,   Israel   (08.11.11)
The protesters do not deny that they are consumers. The article in my opinion misses the point entirely. Let me remind all that over the last 34 years, the Likkud has been in power 24 of them. During this time, Israel has transformed from a social welfare state to a country with the widest gap between rich and poor in all Europe. In addition, the government's policies has caused a continuous gnawing away of the middle class by increasing their tax burden, moving them closer to the destitute classes, instead of improving their economic situation. These protests are that of the middle class, who are sick and tired of shouldering the burden for every populist government decision, which drives them closer to the weaker classes. It is a fight to MAINTAIN one's standard of living, they do not say that they are poor and underprivileged, they say, very clearly that they do no want to get there. Why should the rich have ceilings for taxes and health insurance? Those who earn 120,000 NIS net per month pay the same % of tax as those who earn 12,000 NIS. Where is the fairness in that, huh? THIS is what needs to be addressed and adjusted. So, criticizing them for protesting while not being on the bread line, misses the point completely.
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