Opinion
Is Israel losing the battle?
Steve Rubin
Published: 05.01.12, 18:25
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103 Talkbacks for this article
1. It's maybe time to have a look at the miror...
Gregg ,   Haifa IL   (01.05.12)
2. The entire salad is rotten
Canadian Dude ,   Canada   (01.05.12)
This is not just a case of needing better dressing. The author is correct about the attitudes and feelings of the upcoming generation of Jews, but seems fairly oblivious to the causes. No more time for sweet talk, lose the settlements before you lose your foreign support.
3. Time for Change in Israel
Ed ,   USA   (01.05.12)
The battle for Israel will be won only when Israelis elect a government that reflects values that the American Jewish Community can support. It's no longer possible to gloss over the problems with media, with hasbara, with visits to Congress by the PM. It's not the Palestinians who threaten Israel's future, it's the stranglehold on Israeli politics by the extreme right wing in areas of foreign policy, civil liberties and religion. Pundits in Israel don't seem to understand that the path Israel is on now alienates the very people whose financial and political support have sustained Israel for decades. Time for political change in Israel.
4. Re 2
NIgel ,   London   (01.05.12)
Do you really think the settlements are the issue ? Do you have any understanding of the true picture ? Do you not know that three times in the past 10 years Israel has offered a land for peace agreement equating to 99.6% of settlements with a territory swap. Do you not know that shared sovereinty of Jerusalem wes also on the table ? The sad fact is that the Palestinians will not settle for anything short of Palestine from the sea to the riiver. Israel loses the PR battle for many reasons, the settlements are just the first in a very long line of excuses the Palestinians will use as a PR tool. Do understand that the green line was a demarcation after a war and that the land over the green line was occupied by Jordan between 1948 and 1967. Borders have to be negotiated and the since 47, the Palestinians have refused to negotiate not Israel.
5. sillier and sillier
Frank ,   London   (01.05.12)
Israel enjoys very good support with the Republican party. Just listen to Gingrich, Bachman, Perry or even Romney. Instead of changing Israeli direction, maybe it will be better to cut the umbilical cord between Jewish community and the US Democrat Party. The key thing will be to reinvigorate day schools by giving out school vouchers. If Jewish kids were not brain-washed by the leftist teachers, they would do fine.
6. Lipstick on a Pig
Steve Benassi ,   Silver Bay, MN USA   (01.05.12)
1947 Apartheid of Palestine was illegitimate to begin with.
7. We lose because we only have the truth
Gee ,   Zikron Yaakov   (01.05.12)
The Arabs and their racist allies lie about everything and the rub is that their lies get repeated. Instead of discrediting the liars, young people are assuming that something that the liars state must be true. So we are constantly on the defensive regardless of the facts.
8. reply#3ed
daze ,   US   (01.05.12)
The politically bumbling Israel is the result of leftist ideology and leadership. That's why Zionists' numbers are on the rise while leftists are in decline. Hopefully soon, Jews who love Israel, will do what needs to be done while looking the world square in the eye. Alienating ed, george soros, and jstreet- who cares?
9. What's the solution?
David P. Alexandre ,   Los Angeles, USA   (01.05.12)
The author raises a valid point, but what are some proposed solutions?
10. baloney
dolma ,   croatia   (01.05.12)
american jews are being assimilated and as such are loosing connection to israel. on the other hand the fastest growing jewish community there are the orthodox, and those are very connected to israel. this article is obviously comming from a secular tel aviv resident. not too connected to israeli reality either.
11. to #8
Ed ,   USA   (01.05.12)
J Street has grown like wildfire because it finally represents what American Jews have believed is the correct path for Israel. Remaining silent about the path Israel is on (suicidal) is no longer an option for people who care. While J Street has become very involved in conversations with the US Congress, my criticism of J Street is that it doesn't attempt to work directly on the real problem ... Israeli domestic politics. There is a new generation of leadership throughout Jewish America and ... you should care. We do. Instead of adopting a bunker mentality, you should wake up and realize Israel is in danger of becoming just another Mideast Theocracy. God forbid.
12. Here's an example.
Ian ,   Newcastle upon Tyne   (01.05.12)
This is a statement that always appears on items that concern Israel and the West Bank on the BBC News site: "There are more than a hundred Jewish settlements in the West Bank, territory that Israel captured in the 1967 war. They are considered illegal under international law, although Israel disputes this." Notice that it is never stated what that 'international law' actually is.As far as I'm aware the only law in effect is still the Mandate for Palestine which was never revoked and can never be revoked because of Article 80 of the UN Charter.Undrer THAT current international law Jewish settlement in the whole of the old Palestine is indeed legal and even encouraged. Why is the BBC not publically challenged on this point?Surely there must be Israeli lawyers and publicists who are up to the job if the Israel government would only mobilise them. THREE CHEERS FOR ISRAEL!!!
13. Anyway - most of Israelis are rednecks
Gregg ,   Haifa, IL   (01.05.12)
They're always convinced that their way is the right way. The awaken will be tough.
14. Gingrich Bachman Perry and Romney
John ,   Toronto   (01.05.12)
Gingrich, Perry and Romney are ALL middle aged-old aged men. Bachman is a Born-Again Evangelical religious nut. Understand the Article? Then you should understand the people on these campuses, are youths. Educated YOUNG PEOPLE. Gingrich and Romney are...soon to be replaced. Israel is even underattack withen the Jewish Community now.
15. Are the Muslims tired of their fight Steve?
(01.05.12)
No they are not. The American Jews who are tired are self indulgent liberals looking for an easy way. The balance of these so called intelligent educated college students are the same intelligentsia that has always been easily swayed against the Jews. The types that have attempted to destroy us through out our history. You, Steve, simply need to accept that YOU grew up in a rare Jewish golden era, when it was not the norm for the intellectuals to convince the less educated to murder us. We've returned back to what has been the bulk of our history on this planet. Our survival has ALWAYS been as a consequence of strength...in one form or another...
16. Failure of Hasbara
B.B. ,   Great Neck, NY, US   (01.05.12)
As long as the notion that only the Republican Party is pro-Israel and that anyone who disagrees for the so-called policies of the Netanyahu/Avigdor government is an anti-semite, is the accepted view, the Jewish community in the U.S. will reject Israel. It is not appreciated that if one does not believe that the West Bank is the most important and relevant part of Israel then one is an enemy of all jews and the State of Israel. These lines of thinking (including that Obama is evil) will only serve to cut Israel off from the rest of the world. That Israel's prime minister refuses to clarify his points of view (probably because they are not defensible) to the New York Times (I guess because it is the most read non-religious paper by Jews and therefore not acceptable to him) is but one additional nail in the coffin of relations between Israel and the rest of the secular Jewish world. Shame, shame on all those who hate and despise anyone not fully supporting those Israeli idiocies.
17. #10. the weird thing about American Jewish kids is...
Henry from New York ,   USA   (01.05.12)
a lot of the ones I run into seem to act even more American than everyone else. That's especially the case in my Hebrew classes. It's kind of disconcerting actually....
18. a voice of reason
avramele   (01.05.12)
There is still of course a strong unapologetic case to be made for Israel and Zionism, fo rthe legitimacy of its security needs and the efficacy of a state that is both Jewish and democratic. There is no defense for occupying another people, establishing a theocracy or denying a segment of the population, Israeli Arabs, full civil and political rights.The details of the solution to the above problems will not be simple and will entail a process over time. American Jews, left and right can appreciate that. What none can appreciate is the absurd notion that 61 knesset votes defines what is the true historical narrative and in true Orwellian fashion we must adjust our thinking to the last Israeli election. Hasbara is dead -- long live honest, independent and realistic thinking and the need to compromise on a number of fronts.
19. reply#11 Ed
daze ,   US   (01.05.12)
j street is an abomination. "Growing like wildfire", nah, more like flattulence. They don't speak for most American Jews, just the ones who are fast becoming more and more irrelevant. As Israel wakes up and responsible leadership takes over, they will change their leftist apparatchik supreme court, make their elected officials accountable to the voters and boldly confront the arab problem. All without jstreets' worse than useless support
20. Democracy
Joe Sombrero ,   USA   (01.05.12)
Is becoming harder and harder to defend Israel in public and protected her from the delegitimization because most of us Jewish pro-Israel people are too busy trying to keep the Israeli government from committing suicide. Israeli government is more concerned about and protecting the left foreign controlled government-sponsored NGOs, leftist judges spit in the face of democracy for the sake of activism on the court, corrupt foreign controlled politicians in and out of the Israeli government, a relentless criticism from the people media and goverment we are trying to protect. This is the thanks we get.
21. #16, B.B., You are absolutely correct!
Mark ,   San Francisco, USA   (01.05.12)
Thanks for your succinct and, I believe, accurate analysis. I agree completely that shame is due to those who hate and despise anyone not fully supporting this right-wing government's policies. The villification of Obama, J. Street, any mention of a two-state solution, etc., have made many American Jews bitter.
22. #16 Your part of the Probelm
Joe Sombrero ,   USA   (01.05.12)
23. #16 Your Part of the Problem
Joe Sombrero ,   USA   (01.05.12)
You are also delusional. Most American Jews support Israel not the Leftist in ideology of Israel, You are another want a be Jstreeter.
24. #11 Ed
Joe Sombrero ,   USA   (01.05.12)
Jstreet is only alive because of George Soros, Clinton Money they are the most hated jewish organization of the American Jewish Community, They are so hated they could not even make it into Berkley and that's bad for a Extreme left organization which is anti Israel.
25. to 4
nuha ,   lod   (01.05.12)
do you know that you do not know anything about palastinians as people .men women children familis ......
26. to6
(01.05.12)
this lipstick was made from pig fat ..haramharamharam
27. i think
(01.05.12)
king husseen was wiser than golda and ashkool after the 67 war .but had no force to his openion
28. jstreet paid trolls
joe sombrero ,   usa   (01.05.12)
Seems to be a organized and probably in my opinion paid trolls from Jstreet or their paid help from som big PR firm.
29. To nr 3 - Time for change in Israel
Alexander ,   Tel Aviv, Israel   (01.05.12)
I agree. The changes that need to be done in Israel is to realize that Israel is not only one of the oldest living civilizations on earth that has existed for thousands of years before USA and Europe were even conceived, and not only that Israel is the historical, original and ancient homeland of the Jewish people, and not only that no "Palestine" or "Palestinians" have ever existed in recorded human history, and not only that Israel doesn't exist in this world to "serve", "entertain", "amuse" or "please" anyone - Israel exists for its own sake just like any other normal country, and not only that Israel is politically speaking a sovereign/independent state, but the major change is PSYCHOLOGICAL - Jews of Israel and Jews of the diaspora have to start to behave like free human beings that go about their lives in a natural and sincere way without explaining and apologizing to the rest of the world. The major change that needs to be done in Israel is for Jews to grow a set of balls and be supportive of Jewish nationalism and Jewish national rights, stopping to apologize all the time and stopping to listen to people like you Ed - interfering with Israel's independence and sovereignty. The government of Israel reflects what the Jewish/Israeli people feels, wants and thinks - not what Left wing liberal self hating masochist post nationalist, multicultural and morally relativist American Jews think. In case you didn't know - neither Jewish nor non Jewish Americans are the center of the universe. Americans have equal value and importance, but not more importance. Maybe the US government should reflect what the Israeli people thinks. For example: stop interfering with our domestic affairs, stop accusing us - falsely of relying on "US tax money" (I don't know how many times I've heard this incessant pathetic lie) and stop telling us where we can live and where can construct our homes - unless of course you want Israelis to tell Americans when, if and where they can construct their homes in Washington D.C., New York and Los Angeles.
30. #28, Joe, think what you want but...
Mark ,   San Francisco, USA   (01.06.12)
I am a research scientist Jewish American Zionist who has worked in Israel and visited many times since 1972. I am not paid by J Street. I make intelligent decisions on my own. You obviously cannot believe that there are American Jewish Zionist supporters who think and truly believe in justice for Palestinians, kind of like Ruth Dayan's recent remarks. Maybe she should not support Israel any more either?? Please.
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