There is the IDF who do the physical fighting and then there is the army of prayer warriors doing their part to please HaShem in another way to bring survival and victory to the nation.

Haredim are useless and unsuitable to live in a modern society. They are parasites, they live from our money while hating the state and the rest of normal people. They don't learn nor work and do absolutly nothing of real use in this country. They feed from us like leeches and hate the secular at the same time. The hilonim are not Kasher only our money it's kasher for them. They are disgusting, ignorant primitive people.

Pork is not served in any IDF canteen.

The author likened Yeshiva students to postgraduate students doing research in University laboratories. The main difference is that the researchers find new knowledge which has the potential for bettering humanity. An example of the fruits of religious study can be found in an article in this edition where a Rabbi urges people not to turn on the water faucets on Shabbat.

The woman’s issue is just the tip of the iceberg. There are other issues that could cause a Haridi solider to ignore or not carry out a lawful order. The Haridi concept that what the rabbi says or implies takes precedence over anything else can lead to disastrous results in a military environment. No military organization can function properly when its soldiers are in a position to second guess orders for whatever reason. On the other hand, we do not have the right to force the Haridi into our mold of behavior. The best solution, I think, is to provide alternate national service options for the Hasidim where their beliefs would not be compromised.

It all starts from the fact that many Hassids don't believe they have to be loyal citizens ie that they have basic responsibilities to the State of Israel. Without that basic commitment to the State, it is no wonder all sorts of spurious arguments are made as to why the ultra orthodox can't serve in the military....they just don't want to...

like your comment ,Secular and Orthodoxe society might be able to move on, building a Jewish state where EVERY citizen feels at ease.

No need for a chorus line of bimbos at all

many of the repondants here show intolerence to Jewish religious traditions under the guise of "I dislike the Haradim, because of this and that etc" No doubt many Haradim feel the same way about seculars. But real nastiness is only with the extremists on both sides. What I find is that when seculars and haradim meet in a work/social or service environment, close friendships, bonds and understandings are formed that make a nonsense of some of the animosity I read about.

that if Madona came to sing to the American army the religious Jew was obliged to listen.

And also, things have to change.... Women are 50 to 60% of the population.... think of the proposition where 1/2 population is white and 1/2 is black and the whites tell the blacks that they can't sing in public! Can you imagine the outcry!!!!

shockingly you managed to produce dribble which is even more retarded than this untrue, idiotic article. i wish i had my 5 minutes back..thank you ohad shaked, we are all stupider now for having read this garbage. and thank you #12 for outdoing him. and #12..i was a kravi soldier for years and i don't recall soldiers ever being able to simply "make special requests"...and even the biggest crybaby would never call our conditions "impossible". yes we worked hard..even very hard. but we understood what was at stake. we understand the seriousness of the task. it is after all an army, civilian lives and the country's survival are under threat and the way to stand up to this threats isn't by "making special requests" and crying over "impossible conditions" or the cruelty of having to hear a female voice. bottom line = IF you have the audacity...then you can ask your commander to be excused from the ceremony. but you have to live with his decision either way, and if he doesn't excuse you, then you sit there like every other soldier and don't stand up and walk out like an insubordinate childish 12 year old throwing a tantrum. these soldiers showed their true colors by walking out on the ceremony and i am thankful that they didn't finish bahad 1 and become officers. "low-morale conscripts"? NONE of the religious soldiers i served with felt this way. and as to your question...yes i'd rather have low-morale soldiers who know how to do their job and take orders than have high-morale,, insubordinate spoiled babies..

I thought about this as a Christian "what would I do if I were forced into the armed forces via a draft or something." I would join and state my inability to kill, praying that I would not be put into the position of kill or be killed. There are many logistical fields that a religious person can attend to. They can also be cannon fodder (I don't say this in a derogatory way as to die for me is to gain life) and honestly that is the way I would go if put into a firefight.

Secular & Haridi friendships do happen in the work place as long as neither one tries to force the other to adopt his lifestyle.

I agree with the title with one ' slight ' change .Haredi is unsuitable for the State of Israel - like ' water and oil '

I don't blame the IDF for not wanting to integrate the Haredim or bow to their wishes. The Haredim don't want to integrate into the Army. It is absurd to expect the Army to change its operations (especially with regard to women) to accomodate rabbinical edicts. That said, this group has become quite accustomed to such concessions in non-military aspects of society, so this sort of absurdity has already permeated the society. Nevertheless, as others have said, it is the Army, and those who serve need to be relied upon to follow orders. Soldiers need to comply with the IDF, not the other way around. I believe the Haredi laws/rules were designed to keep their community insulated. If you cannot sit down for a meal with non-Haredi people because they do not follow your strict dietary rules, or if you avoid interacting with them because it is the norm for their non-mikvah-bathing women to mix freely with men and dress the way they please, it is unlikely that you will befriend them, fall in love with one of them, or learn about perspectives and beliefs different from your own. This keeps the community insulated from the threat of assimilation to secular society. I agree with #35 that alternative forms of service could be developed for those Haredi who truly wish to serve the country so they could do so in an environment that would compromise neither their beliefs nor the IDF's rules.

Oh dear me the army isnt suitable for their life style. Well you would have thought after all that rioting, buring trash cans, spitting on 8 year olds attacking women on buses that these skills could be put to better use in the army. Now drarft the lot of them and show them what army disipline is. Starnge the gay population has no trouble serving in the army, dont hear them complaining every 5 minutes.

Interesting debate. In Rockland County,NY,theultra-Orthodox towns are trying to have the public pay for private religious schools. They claim Jewish students are harassed. The "local" Jews and goyim have fought this, and their efforts have failed repeatedly. As a former tourist to the general area, the same attitude prevailed on other areas of life. One Italian Catholic told me, "our Jews are not like the NYC Jews" I remember this to this very day. Whether ultra-Orthodox or secular, "only the garb is different" said by anti-Semites. Those who prefer Torah study to a fault, vs serving in the Israeli army, are deceiving themselves. W/O the IDF, they would find themselves in a pickle (not kosher). Recall pictures of Germans shearing the beards of religious Jews and smiling at that. Recall thouands of Jews hearded into trucks..many religious. They believed G-d would aid them, "Gods army". Never happened. The secular US Jew, fought in the Battle of the Bulge and Iwo Jima 600,000 Jews fought. To resolve this quagmire: all Israeli citizens who reside there, must take responsibility for the state. Israel does not need 500,000 rabbis, but a learned Jewish population in all streams. Torah study is fine to a point. There is plenty of time after the military service to sit in a yeshiva. However, lets be honest. The IDF should accomodate where feasible, individual beliefs. But like a hospital, you sign away some rights, to save your life. W/O the IDF, Israel is history guys. Just ask, Hamas, Hezbollah, Syria, Muslim Brotherhood, Irans mullahs, the Taliban, and dozens of other groups

The author mixes up te Religious Zionists born from Alkalai Kirshner and Kook with the Haredim which include the Satmar and Neuteri Karter who are vehemently anti zionist , Lubovitch has an inbetween position extreme in keeing the conquests but not recognizing the messianism of zionism.I doubt the army is basically disappointed by the the religious zionist devotion and courage.

The gov't definitely doesn't want haredim in the IDF which would mean more and more kids coming home with Tefillin, and desiring kosher food and keeping Shabbath. Who'd want that? ;-)