Opinion
Israel's religious majority
Hagai Segal
Published: 03.02.12, 14:51
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1. AND NON-JEWS INCREASE THE %
dave ,   safet israel - phila   (02.03.12)
many of the believers among the Jews are reternees, people who grew up secular but adapted the Torah outlook after figuring things out.
2. My HERETIC interpretation
Michael ,   California, USA   (02.03.12)
20% religious; 25% atheists 55% wishy washy. Tommy Lapid, dear, don't turn in your grave yet.
3. Poll results? I'll believe my eyes.
Michael Alex ,   NYC USA   (02.03.12)
And I believe the Rabbi's will agree, keeping a kosher home and sticking to a routine on Yom Kippur does NOT make you religious. I lived in Israel for 4 years and the moniker "Traditional" was used to describe these types. The majority of Israel is secular according to Halacha. Nice try to spin this poll though . . . .
4. Bibi and Likudb Take note
Martin ,   SA   (02.03.12)
Erets Yisroel is a JEWISH country. Just like the army will sensure leaving one soldier and feel his pain so too we feel the pain of our fellow Jewish citizens in Yesha where we they are disregarded because a judge who messed up our claims to the territory. So this government needs to feel our collective when the IDF ignore our insecurity and its pain by being ignored. Our pain when modesty is ignored. Our pain when white and tref sea-food is sold or publicly eaten in restaurants owned by Jews and so on. Let love Ha Kodeh Baruich and all our collect pain by showing respect for our fellows privately and PUBLICLY as well,
5. B'H Jerusalem will become Israel and Israel the world.
Michael ,   Canada   (02.03.12)
Messianic times are upon us ... growing faith brings a smile to my face... I hope everyone is ready for what comes next!
6. Now let's finally have majority rule.
Chaim ,   Israel   (02.03.12)
After recent polls on religiosity and political opinions, which prove Israel is an observant centre right state - let's finally have majority rule. Let the vast patriotic Israeli majority to take the reins of power.
7. Interesting as Israel returns to its Jewish roots its
Al   (02.03.12)
becoming wealthy as well. I would suspect there is a direct correlation. "Respect the land in which you dwell and the one who gave it, and you will be rewarded." Remember that!
8. Get real - it's complex
Rachel ,   USA   (02.03.12)
Believe it or not, religion is not an all-or-nothing affair. Keeping kosher at home does not mean the person supports gender-segregated buses or children not learning the core curriculum. And it does not mean that the person will vote UTJ or Shas. It also doesn't mean that the person will support legislation establishing religious practices as law in the Medinah. The situation of politics and religion in Eretz Yisrael is very complex. The state of people's kitchens and the state of the State don't necessarily have much to do with each other.
9. Semantic nonsense
Someone ,   Somewhere   (02.03.12)
By redefining "religious" as "anyone who believes in any aspect of Jewish religion or tradition," you make the term useless. If you can't understand that there is a difference between "keeps kosher at home" and "won't allow pictures of women in a newspaper they bring home," then there is little point to this article.
10. As a secular Jew
Gee ,   Zikron Yaakov   (02.03.12)
I follow many of the practices, but am not very religious. I detest the hatred being shown to the Haredim. I want National Service for all including Arabs and the leftist Tel-Aviv Cafe Commandos as well as the Haredim. What I want most is to end the Arab terrorism and land theft. Those are my wants.
11. What a depressing analysis of the survey
andyboy ,   Israel   (02.03.12)
Whilst most reports, in the interests of sensationalism, highlight the negative aspects of the survey, not all is lost for us non-believers. Taking into account the size of the sample, and the fact that no element of statistical error has been mentioned, the results do NOT show any significant change over the past 20 years. The defeatist attitude of this columnist must not be allowed to hide the positive aspects. What is needed is a new secular party to counterbalance Shas, Maybe Yair will have more success than his father.................
12. Offensive Article
Eli ,   Haifa   (02.03.12)
Continually calling secular Jews "heretics" is doing nothing to assuage their fears of an impending theocracy. There is no problem with people being religious... only with people forcing their beliefs on others by legislation... and this has nothing to do with mixed beaches or seafood restaurants. But things like army service, public transportation on Saturday, and requiring the rabbinate for marriage.
13. Right, but not so simple
Shalom Freedman ,   Jerusalem Israel   (02.03.12)
From my point- of- view the fact that the Israeli public does not turn its back on the Jewish tradition, but embraces it in varying ways and degrees is only good news. But the truth revealed by the survey is more complex. The fastest growing part of the religious population is the ultra-Orthodox population with its very large anti-Zionist and anti- Israel even component. That is worrisome. It is also worrisome that with the rise of increasing religiousness come signs of a push to extremism in regard to insularity, denial of women's rights. One must think of the overall welfare of the Jewish people and state of Israel and here the results of the survey are not- unambiguously positive.
14. Not black or white.
solomon ,   bklyn   (02.03.12)
I take the study to show that Judaism in Israel is not black or white. The author assumes that those who are not totally secular, are orthodox (or almost). But there is a beginning recognition of the Masorti (or Conservative) choice. The truth lies in the grey between the black and white. And I think it is a lighter shade than the author imagines.
15. Belief
zivron   (02.03.12)
Belief in a Force is one thing following the ultraorthodox interpretations another .Few fo;;owthe ultraorthodox interpretations strictly because they are nonsensical . The atheists and agnostics will developthe thermonuclear weapons which for now protect the Haredim in israeL In the Galut they have to get a job andwill soon have to practice or already do practice bith control in instances of poverty . Half the religion only has progressive humane elements the rest is horrible. Like the Pikuach nefesh saudacee pharisee divide judaism will have to evolve .
16. Polls
zivron   (02.03.12)
The polls interpratation just as the interpretation of the Torah needs revision but harsh forces surround israel and the jews and vigorous plans have to be made .Netanyahu is a good strategist he knows the israels perils. Radical Left and Right wing alternatives are off the planet out of reality like a democratic secular state with the islamic brotherhood or throwing the arabs out which will alienate powerful allies amongst jews and gentiles.
17. definitions
Michael ,   Haifa   (02.03.12)
I wonder how the "Eidah Heredit" defines you, Hagai Segel ...maybe a goy with a kippa on his head, who speaks Hebrew...Ultimately it is the ultra orthodox who will define the religious standards, just as the Ayatollahs, and their like, do elsewhere.
18. A country crying out for religious freedom
Mike ,   US   (02.03.12)
The conclusion I draw from these results is that more of Israel should demand an end to arbitrary state control of Judaism and remove restrictions on movements that aren't ultra-Orthodox.
19. Question
Sarah B ,   U.S.A. / Israel   (02.03.12)
Why would any Jew want to turn his or her back on what has sustained us for millennia? Judaism is far more than a religion. It is a way of life. Lose that, and you lose your identity; lose your identity and you lose your reason for being.
20. The sky of modernity is not falling
Avramele   (02.03.12)
22% of Israelis live a halachic lifestyle. Near half describe themselves as secular but incorporate Jewish traditions into their lives. It sounds a lot like Canadian Jewry a generation ago or American Jewry two generations ago. However given the majority status of Jews in Israel a synthesis of religious practice and modern lifestyle will probably be the norm. But most will be yehudim chafshiyim freely picking and choosing between past traditions, new traditions and secular ways
21. Kosher and observant Masorti
Carl ,   USA   (02.03.12)
So now you are willing to include Masorti Jews under your tent? I believe in equality for women and adamantly oppose the rigidity of belief and segregation promulgated by an orthodoxy rooted in 18th century Poland. How vile to call Jews who believe differently from yourself "heretics," a term under which thousands were murdered or forcibly converted in medival Europe.
22. Can we stop trying to divide Jews?
Henry from New York ,   USA   (02.03.12)
This kind of ridiculour oneupsmanship is destroying Israel.
23. Religion in Israel
Syd Chaden ,   Palermo Calif USA   (02.03.12)
Israel was formed to provide a safe place for Jews to practice their religion freely, not to enable fundamentalists or secularists to impose their views on others.
24. What a reckless perspective of reality.
EZRA THE PROUD JEW ,   USA-ISRAEL   (02.03.12)
The Polls show 'belief' in our religion, not the extremes in the differences of religious practices. Therein lies the core of the issue. This article is so superficial it defies any logic and rationale. Indeed, its a silly agruement. The differences between believers and haredim is so extreme, its the same as seculars and haredim. Clumping them all together as a group is just ludicrous. Pointless, sophmoric arguement. Just plain silly.
25. Rubbish.
PaulZion ,   Israel   (02.03.12)
Lumping together people like me, who believe in G-d and keep kosher, but believes in having a secular country and system, together with the bigoted Haredim, who eschew women's involvement in public life and society, or, for that matter, with the ultra right wing fascist mountain top youth who find excuses for their violence and racist hatred in excerpts from the Torah, is shameful and despicable. Funny that the writer stopped quoting the survey there. I would like to know how many of those questioned would be for the separation of religion from politics. The vast majority, I would expect. The facets most important in a democracy is the tolerance shown towards the minorities. he conveniently missed that.
26. 40 years in the future
Taxpayer ,   Hod Hasharon   (02.03.12)
As the Syrian and Iraqi armies paraded through Arafat square (which up to that week has been called Rabin Square) they could not believe their good-fortune and the ease of their victory. True Israel's ecomony had been considerably weakening over the past 15 years, as the secular minority was forced to either live within the confines imposed by the religious minority - the old sexular life no longer being a possibility with travel banned on the Sabbath, all restaurants having to be glatt Kosher and the television broadcasting Shiorim from learned rabbis 24 hours a day six days a week. Most of them were long gone, and with them the wealth creating sector of Israel's economy. FOreign relations were almost non-existant, with America having broken off diplomatic relations when the short-lived national religious government had annexed the West Bank and started massive expulsions. Those days were gone and now the ultra-orthodox were the majority party in power or rather they had been. When the Arab armies attakced, they knew that the IDF could no longer afford modern weaponry, but they could not have imagined, that Rabbi of Defense would have issued an edict that salvation would come from the lord, and that all that was needed was for people to pray 12 hours a day. But who would have imagined that the Religious police would be posted at all of the road junctions and would arrest any reservist who tried to report for duty - there were speady trials for those convicted of the crime of not praying hard enough. That is where this survey is leading us. What is there to celebrate.
27. I'm betting Yair has even less success than his father.
Chaim ,   Israel   (02.03.12)
#11. I'm not a highly religious Jew myself. However, like the vast majority of Israeli Jews, I respect that Israel was founded as the Jewish Homeland. Judaism is ultimately the driving force of Israel. Israel was never intended to be a Hebrew speaking Sweden. If one can imagine such a thing. The anti-religious faction in Israel is self destructive and, to be blunt, sick. I'm betting Yair Lapid has even less sucess than his father.
28. Religion vs. Secular Society
Not for me   (02.03.12)
With respect to non-Jewish antisemites (anti-Jews, anti-Israelis, anti-Zionists), all Jews stand equal...we are just disposable "Kikes" and that won't change for the foreseeable future. The Talmud clearly states "Echad haMarbeh veEchad Hamameitt, haKol Shaveh"...i.e. more religious or less religious in the end it is ALL the same because we (supposedly) are EQUALS. Reading this article (as shallow as it is) indicates that alyiah is NOT for me or my kind. I am somewhat learned (orthodox Kollel-level Semicha studies) but NOW totally secular. I refuse to to be involved in a system where my life would be regulated by the "diktats" of theocrats. There are many others like me... we ALL realize that until an Israeli Constitution is promulgated where Religion cannot trump the State (the Medinah) we will not return to our homeland...Medinat Yisrael
29. Misunderstanding democracy
Gabriel ,   Tel Aviv   (02.04.12)
Democracy is not simply rule of the majority. Even if 98% of the country were religious, that shouldn't change people's rights one bit.
30. # 27 Response
Sagi   (02.04.12)
Indeed Israel was intended to be a Hebrew speaking Sweden. Anything less is not for me and I may add not for many others. The bearded wonders will be left to hold the reins of society, that is of course if there is any society requiring leaders. I doubt it, disintegration has already started and is well under way, the end is nigh.
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