I think that enlistment in the military should be voluntary like in the US First, motivated soldiers make the best soldiers. Ones who do not want to be there will not make good solders Second, I think that the population of israel is now great enough that voluntary enlistment would provide sufficient manpower Third, if there is forced enlistment, shouldn't the arab citizens also be required to serve. why single out charedim. but do we really want forced enlistment of arabs who may be our enemies.

you might just get an extremist army out of it.

If the haredi enlist because they chose to then they will find it much easier to fit in than they will be if we enlist them kicking and screaming. The IDF is not short of manpower so they are in no hurry to get the haredi to join up because if they are forced then all thats going to happen is they will use their new found influence ( there will be alot of them ) to try and force the IDF to change its way of operating to suit its haredi soldiers. Long term a solution needs to be found that will get both the arabs & haredi doing some kind of national service but it is an issue that needs to be handled carefully and not rushed because we think its unfair they don't serve or we risk giving the IDF a huge headache which may damage their operating capabilities.

Social pressure probably keeps many Haredi men from enlisting. There needs to be guidence from the Haredi Rabbonim to give their young men more options. In earlier generations kollel was one option, but most haredim went to work to support their families. In Israel the IDF should also be one Haredi option.

Stay in Brooklyn please, it is your natural habitat. keep calling yourself Yonason and do not use the word "we" when refering to Israel as Israel has nothing to do with you.

The real problem is that the extreme Left only wants to attack and delegitimize the Haredim. If they wanted Haredim to serve, they would make sure the food was sufficiently kosher and there was no contact with women. But a few months ago the extreme Left got rid of 10 excellent combat officers because they did not want to be forced to see women singers. The extreme Left does not care about IDF service, just encouraging hatred of Haredim.

Why would Tzahal even want them?

Lahazor ba'sheela is dramatic change. Everything else from Haredim is scam, destined to fool secular and throw mud in the face of kipot srugot. Add me to the statistics of those who believe civil war is on the way.

1) One idea is that since all the country is now a battlefield, Haredim should be given the option to specialize in urban search and rescue in a new unit that will be called Israeli National Guard. They will be sent to train for several months and then be on call for at least 10 years as a reserve force. This will allow them not to serve full time for three years if they do not wish. 2) At age 16, all secular high school and yeshiva students get a chance to volunteer for at least 3 years as a professional soldier with first priority in choice of unit, full benefits, including a new GI bill that pays for University. 3) Those who decline to volunteer risk conscription for a reduced service of six months to two years at status quo low wages and no choice of unit. Some "lucky" few will either be exempt from the draft entirely or be sent to national service.

This is all well and good, but at the same time they are issuing orders FORCING soldiers to listen to women singing. What does this have to do with being in the IDF and defending Israel? If they want the Hareidim to enlist, they need to create the atmosphere that will allow for it. Why does the Jewish State not have an army that follows Torah anyway?

First off, in response to the guy who said it should be voluntary, I agree what a nice idea, but it'll never happen, because the gov would have to pay them much more than they are paying them today, (the required enlisted) and simply cannot afford it. I think it would be a good thing to make it equal for all. Arabs haradim, christians, seculars, etc.... but 100% equal, not partly or percentage wise, or or or... I think it would definitely change the face of the army today. All groups' needs would have to addressed, and it would not be the same as it is today. Today those who are or where in the army are part of a unique secular box. Although, I beleive most seculars pushing to get all the haradim into the army are not looking to change the army, but to change the haradi, this in fact will not happen, in the end the army will simply have to change a bit to accommodate some basic haradi needs. And if we don't take the arabs into the army as well, how can ever hope to integrate them into Israeli society ? So really we will need to change the army to accommodate their needs too...

recruitment. And, those refusing to serve the state, the state should refuse to serve them as well!!

Secular self-claimed "elitists" who don't sit and learn Torah all day like the general haredi population and think they're above the law have no excuse not to serve in the army and should be drafted immediately.

...full three years, be it in uniform, within the context of the Israel Defense Forces (IDF) or the police (Border Police, Traffic Police or regular Blue Police), or as part of the civil-national service, including fire fighters, medics, etc. And, those refusing to serve, the state should refuse to serve them as well..

If Haredi men and women can't serve in the IDF because they are "pacifist," there is still no excuse for them NOT to serve in natioanl service, as many national religious girls do- there is NO reason why they cannot learn a trade (mechanics), civil engineering, driving, cleaning, maintenance, or care-giving for the elderly, for example... They must contribute to the State, if they don't they can leave- the same goes for the Arabs!

My preference would be for all the Haredim to join Yonason in Brooklyn, but I have to admit that he has a point that causes me concern: namely that by dint of sheer quantity and due to their extremist ideology, massive draft of the haredim will have a deleterious effect on the IDF. For example I point to Colonel Eisner from two weeks ago.

it wouldn't surprise me if NK who are the dregs of society in wartime gave information to the enemy to help them defeat Israel and give it over to the arabs because these are not yet messianic times so I don't think anybody would even want that lot even if they agreed to serve which they would not. With NK as they don't believe the country has a right to exist anyway even they would probably even refuse to do some kind of civilian national service because of their ideology and considering there are only a couple of thousand of them in the country is it really making a fight over? National service should be possibly be conditional for receiving certain state benefits that way you can say I am dead set against serving so I am willing to do without we can say your choice. As they don't believe the country has a right to exist NK don't claim any state benefits and instead rely on handouts from other sources so doing it that way would eliminate the likes of NK and the ones who do want these benefits would know that nobody will make them serve but if they want their benefits they must do their bit in exchange. Although the haredi all dress the same NK and the other radical sects probably make up about 10% of the haredi population but they are the ones who grab all the headlines because the others are just law abiding citizens who don't do anything to get themselves noticed by the media.

What we have here is a lot of written words. No problem solvers. Result, elections now for what? Nothing is going to change. I personally support the position that all, except the arabs, should serve with honor. This conflict over who serves has been going on since the founding of the state. The haredim did fight in the war of independence, particularly in Jerusalem. However today it is a different Israel. The haredim should be encouraged to serve. The army should make accomodations for them. But no accomodation that weakens the spirit and fighting strength of the army. The helonim must all serve and not use the haredim as an excuse not to serve. Helonim serve with honor and distinction your country needs you. Thank g-d the kippah srugah, the national religious who today are the backbone of the army, will and are swerving in the army with distinction and honor and most importantly their numbers are growing. The national religious will not let us down and in the end they will provide with the Jewish people with security and save the Jewish state, right Sagi!

If only a small percentage of drafted Hareidim end up supporting Neturi Karta (i.e. seeing the Iranians as liberators rather than a threat), could IDF survive having that many disloyal soldiers? One should remember that forcing Hareidim into a secular environment will seriously enhance support for the Neturei Karta approach. They will be transformed from colorful nutcases to a serious movement. The ultimate nightmare for Israel is when the Palestinians and the Hareidim ask the United Nations to rescue them from the oppressive Zionist regime, which would make it easy for anti-zionists to act overseas without fear of being called anti-semites. Conscripting hareidim into an hilonim army is a recipe for suicide for the zionist movement.

The issue is not national conscription for the haredim. The issue is can we get them to do anything if conscripted. The notion that they would perform public service is ludacris. These people will not work for pay, why would they work for our freedom. The work they must perform can not be critical--they can not be trusted to carry out the service. The work would need to be supervised closely--they have no skill nor work ethic. Failure to perform work would be punished how?-- The expense of having these irresponsible, lazy, children on our hands is going to be enormous. How about a simple deal--no service to the country, then no services by the country: these should include education unerwriting, housing, medical, police protection, transportation, and absolutely welfare. Enter the service. Perform well, get services. Enter the service perform mediocre get medium services. Enter the service and fail--no services. These are freeloading scnoorers at their best. At their worst they are traitors. They do not in any way represent the national character and should not be encouraged to stay. Let them go to Brooklyn and see if they can live for free there.

I realize that life is all about money the soldiers with the most money are the best soldiers luckily Israel has developed a secret to monetarily support them that way but are these people ready were they given the monetary support they sound like the minority people in Syria no need to push for total conscript try voluntary conscript working up to a expanded conscript as they may be ready for it too soon is no good like picking tomatoes olives bananas before they are grown to regular size like horses you have to know horses to know soldiers lucky you you know horses I do not any way why you need a war with may be Syria to develop this to this degree you are ahead of your selfs any way being 67 I am too old for these things too old I follow developments but I see you make mistakes mistakes a word you should study like the word Torah sounds more like the word Sarah to me RIGHT ??? any way have a nice 64 th anniversary RIGHT ??? Thank You... M. S.

in the beginning when man transgressed and had the knowledge of God,man was cursed and was sweating to get the daily bread,for this reason men become religious leaders,not to work and live of the efforts and daily sacrifices of others through taxes,so does the government,business men and military

Orthodox Jewish David Perez who asked me for assistance since he could not find work to provide for his family other than a part time job in book-keeping, refused to pick weeds in my yard after being helped with car repair expenses and food and other assistance for nearly a year. He is lazy. After all he and his wife Martha Montoya and their children got from my husband and me, they would not lift a finger to help us. If that is what Haredim are like, you are right that the IDF should be very careful about letting them do anything since they won't do anything that is remotely considered to be work unless it is reading the Torah and complaining about how they don't have enough.

Are you uberhaupt a Jew? You sound more like a Nazi.

People say don't give them money and have them serve and then it's said they should't serve. Such a confusing way of thinking.

of course there are solutions to embracing the Haredim into the IDF Just needs a bit of creative and pioneering thinking on both sides And Im sure - once comfortable in their situation within the IDF they could make a very important contribution to the defence of Israel

....why the Haredim should get any special privileges in the army. Period. Especially when those special privileges are already at the expense of other soldiers who serve without special privileges. They can serve under the same conditions and if they don't want to they can do what anyone else who doesn't like something here can do. They can leave.