Opinion  Guy Bechor
Israel's deep-sea dominance
Guy Bechor
Published: 04.05.12, 11:24
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122 Talkbacks for this article
1. Israel is an emerging world superpower.
Jules   (05.04.12)
2. If Israel's Enemies Are Even Slightly Sane
Shalom Freedman ,   Jerusalem Israel   (05.04.12)
If Israel's enemies are even slightly sane they will not be making non- conventional attacks on Israel.
3. Yes they do
israel israeli ,   tel aviv   (05.04.12)
The submarines are good weapons, and maybe even necessary for some threats, but israel is behind the times: Israel's foes have the answer to the submarines. While Israel is buying expensive weaponry, the foes have directed their war at Israel's legitimacy. With the BDS movement, false accusations of war crimes, Goldstone, inciting Haredi hatred while at the same time using low level violence (from stones to rockets on Sderot), the foes are weakening Israel, weakening her ability to defend herself and taking over land. The submarines are great, but they are for fighting the wrong war.
4. Dont get carried away
Allan ,   London, England   (05.04.12)
Do not compare the tiny diesel/electric subs to the US/Russian/Chinese Nuclear powered subs, that have hunter killer class and attack class subs. The smaller Dolphin diesel subs are just that and cannot survive for an indefinate time away from port or from a supply ship, and Israel cannot just park a supply ship in the gulf...! So no it is not all powerful, it can deliver an attack and then submerge and run like hell...
5. Never put your trust in arms...
Mattyboy ,   Jerusalem   (05.04.12)
Israel... What are you doing...? Interesting how these german submarines are similar to what hitler used (only in principle) - The Israeli U-boat... Why is Israel becoming so fascist these days? Why does Israel need all these things? Surely it is better to trust in the Lord? - "Do not kill". - What happened to the commandments given to Moses?
6. Great subs, however
Sheik rattle & roll ,   USA   (05.04.12)
to compare them to US LA class nuke subs is stretching it a little. US nuclear submarines are much bigger and can stay under water forever and the only reason it can't is because of food and crew fatigue.
7. Completely right Israel Israeli.
Kobi Martin ,   Tel Aviv   (05.04.12)
in ten years or less, China will be the leading force in the world. Our influence there is zero. Europe is falling apart. We are a small nation less the size of New Jersey. If we dont face the Palestinian problem now with the Americans and Europeans in our side, we will have to do that under Chinese pressure, and the results may not be in our interest. There are growing talks about one-state solution, more boycotts, more hostility against us. Why don't set our borders, let the Palestinians have their State and have a powerful army to fight them, if needed, as two States behave, not as the occupier and the occupied, but as two independent forces. This will bring us respect and dignity
8. In conjunction with a fleet of...
Gideon Reader   (05.04.12)
...remotely piloted Ultra High Altitude Strategic Bombers, which may become (in exttremis) Kamakize inspired weapons. "Ain't never bin nuthin' like SAC".
9. Big shift
Matt   (05.04.12)
For Israel previously a land army and air power. There is only so much money to go around so it means less stealth fighters. But the number allows for a strategic bomber force, they are nuclear capable. The problem was distance if you close the gap they are deadly, radar evading nuclear armed aircraft. Within 10 minutes over Iran undetected. Because of the cost and the strategic needs it all worked out well the Submarines and the F-35.
10. Still, there are only four of them.
Scott ,   USA   (05.04.12)
Considering that only half can be expected to be on station at any time, Israel needs at least a dozen subs, including several smaller vessels to defend offshore assets and land special forces operatives. South Korea seems to be the best source for this technology, but the smaller vessels, at least, should be built in Israel.
11. #5 GO FORTH EDUCATE THYSELF
DA URBAN POET ,   SAFED OPERA HOUSE   (05.04.12)
FYI ,there is no such commandment as " DO NOT KILL' it does not exist .The actual commandment is " Do not MURDER " there is a world of difference between the two ,because judaism permits us and indeed commands us to kill out enemies and to execute or put to death sinners. So please do not lecture about "THE LORD ' . And in answer to " why does Israel need all these things ?" because Israel could not exist without these things.
12. As much respect as I have for Dr. Bechor...
Noodles ,   Coney Island   (05.04.12)
All those subs will never be a substitute for a good old fashioned taking-out of the Iranian nuclear infrastructure. But, possibly, they could also be used in implementing a policy that coincides with those noble objectives.
13. deterrence doesn't work against crazies
tom ,   toronto, canada   (05.04.12)
deterrence only works with rational actors who care about the consequences. if the mullahcracy is determined to bring about "mahdaviat", and doesn't care about loss of life (just look at their horrific losses in the iran-iraq war), the whole basis of deterrence is flawed. instead, it's vital to separate the crazies from their ability to wield power or dangerous weapons, quickly and forcefully.
14. Writer assumes that Iran is a rational actor
Joseph ,   Toronto, canada   (05.04.12)
15. Mattyboy # 5
Eaglebeak ,   Left Coast, USA   (05.04.12)
Trusting in the Lord is all well and good but their is a saying: God helps those who help themselves. I don't think God expects you to sit on your hands and make him do all the work. Do you think God is displeased because in 1948 you fought for what is yours and still do so? You do it with his blessing.
16. Why not also buy the F-34 VTOL?
jason white ,   afula, israel   (05.04.12)
It is there and it is better than the F-35 and there is not F-35 VTOL ready yet.
17. # 7 Kobi, the Pals DON'T WANT a state !
Jules   (05.04.12)
They just want Israel to disappear; please understand that.
18. was the sea also promised
observer ,   Egypt   (05.04.12)
19. provided that Egypt allow safe passage to
observer ,   Egypt   (05.04.12)
The Suez Canal and Tiran Straits are sovereign Egypt territory. The Arabian Sea is Arabian, 1973 was not so far.
20. lets give a big thanks to Saddam, Germany & Barak
zionist forever   (05.04.12)
Way back in 1991 Israel's Gal Class submarines were slowly coming to an end of their service life and the navy wanted new subs but there was no money to buy them. Then one day Saddam Hussain decided to fire Scud missiles at Tel Aviv and it turned out that German companies had sold Saddam equipment used in his chemical weapons program. A big stink was kicked up and Germany decided to compensate Israel because was just luck Saddam didn't put chemical warheads on those Scuds so Germany offered to donate two new subs and subsidize the third and so the navy got their Dolphins. The navy liked their Dolphins so much they decided they wanted more of them. Gabi Ashkenazi & Benny Gantz were in favor of buying one new sub but good old Barak he was on the side of the navy and he wanted to get them six and so he pushed for the funding and under Olmert got funding for two more and under Bibi he got funding for a sixth. Never let it be said that Barak was not good at getting new toys for the IDF. There is no way they will ever get ten subs and they were lucky to get the funding for six considering the navy is always treated like the poor relative of the army & airforce who get about 90% of the annual military budget and the navy just get the leftovers.
21. 5
zionist forever   (05.04.12)
God helps those who help themselves. If somebody is coming to attack you with a weapon you don't stand your ground and do nothing because your expecting the Lord to protect you. You can pray but you should also run and do your own bit to stay alive. Submarines which allow Israel to spy on its enemies undetected, sink their ships in wartime and provide a second strike option to deter the enemy from wanting to attack you. Look at biblical history and you see at a time when people took religion much more seriously than they do today if they wanted to stop enemies then they would fight and didn't rely on God to do the dirty work whilst they got on with life. Do not kill doesn't mean your not allowed to kill in self defense. If somebody is trying to kill you and the only way to stop them is to kill them then its actually your duty to kill them. If the bad guys leave Israel alone then all these submarines will ever do is sit at the bottom of the sea and spy.
22. Military force will never replace peace in the region
christianpalestinian ,   las vegas   (05.04.12)
Israel is fooling itself if it thinks that military force is the answer for the long term.
23. #5 MATT , TRUST IN THE LORD
URBAN RABBI ,   SAFED OPERA HOUSE   (05.04.12)
The Lord will indeed support us ,but he will not fight our batlles for us.
24. I think you err in this -
Arn. ,   Sweden.   (05.04.12)
- I Quote - Iran could theoretically strike Israel with missiles, yet it knows, according to foreign reports, that Tehran may pay an existential price. Even if Israel's offensive and defensive capabilities are destroyed, the blow against Iran shall arrive from the sea – and it will most certainly arrive. If Iran realizes that it will have to pay a terrible price, it won't attack. Comment - this will not protect Israel against the option of - "Mutual Suicide". In Military Warfare and if the Enemy is willing to this Sacrifice, you will loose. So - !!! - the option of Mutual Suicide cant guarantie Your safety and survival. To strike first and eradicate the Enemies Extermination Capability, is the only Option. Arn.Sweden.
25.  Nr 7.
Arn. ,   Sweden.   (05.04.12)
In ten years or less, China will be a defeated Nuced Nation. Arn.Sweden.
26. Nr 3. You err -
Arn. ,   Sweden.   (05.04.12)
- the war you are pointing out is Israels lack of Unity and Relationship with HASHEM. Arn.Sweden.
27. #23 URBAN RABBI, TRUST COMPLETELY IN THE LORD
Anthony Johnson ,   San Jose, Costa Rica   (05.04.12)
I totally agree with you with the first part, The Lord will support you, his chosen people and He will protect you from your enemies. However, I don't agree with you on the second part. The Lord has always stood in front of you and he's just about to show the entire world who is the Almighty God of Israel. How you might ask ? Read Ezekiel 38 and 39, when the alliance of Russia and the Arabs will launch a surprise attack against Israel and nobody will come to your aid, but at that moment The Lord will extend His mighty hand and will destroy the Russian/Arab alliance. Remember how He humiliated the Pharaoh in Egypt ? He will humiliate them even more and the entire world will see it and then everyone will know that the God of Israel is the Almighty living God. Turn your hearts back to Him and Yeshua because he will return very soon. Shalom and blessings for all Israel ! :-)
28. Wrong aproach ,...
split ,   US   (05.04.12)
It's a matter of skills of coexistence and your conduct stupid. If you think that you can do what you doing to your neighbors forever and get away with it despite world's condemnation and increasing protests than you're unsalvageable morons and more subs won't cure it. Ten years from now this submarine will be a piece of junk and considering US/EU financial demise there will be no one to buy you or subsidise new one. With all the money in OPEC coffers they will be buying in Russia and China better toys than we make,...
29. ARE SURE THESE ARE TOYS SUBS
LINDA ,   JERUSALEM   (05.04.12)
The question then is what is Isreal waiting for in striking Iran. Hope there will be no outcry if Russia/China intends to show the same gesture to Iran.
30. Germany use Israel as bullyboy securing tankers in Red Sea
observer ,   Egypt   (05.04.12)
You will wait long till details of the deal released. it all stated in 2002 when French-flagged tanker Limburg was attacked off the coast of Yemen.
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