... is because the problems they create for others, not for anything to do with their "special needs". Three, count 'em, three years of whatever alternative service they do for boys, and two for women. Same pay as regular soldiers. They wanna get married and have babies they can make do with a soldier's pay, national insurance, and anything friends and family wanna chip in. Same for non-Jews doing alternative service, of course, but non-Jews never had the privileges they do. Never heard of special allowances for fellows studying to be ministers, mullahs and priests that the yeshiva boys have.

Why shouldn't they serve? Please foist a valid reason. Are the religious too good? Do bullets and bombs not affect them? Are they NOT Israeli's? I fail to find, even a single VALID reason for the Haredim not to serve.

This is a nice comfy argument at the top of the long fast slope to compromise. At the risk of sounding the "Use Zahal" slogan too loudly, the fact is that Zahal has been a good leveller, a good integration tool for all sorts of social issues. Better that that continues to be the case than some notion that the Haredim will get a softer option for national service than the rest of us, who have done military service on a consistent basis since the founding of the state. We are a dynamic and diverse nation, but there are certain givens for some basic cohesion - like we all live in this country and are sadly not at peace with our neighbours and still have to be ready to defend it - and serving in the army is still one of those givens that we rely upon.

when the best way to make them open their raincoat is sunshine. With a religious environnement they won t need any force.

Those who serve Hashem may not serve in the secular army in Israel, as it's way too hazardous for their spiritual health and instead of a mitzvah would be committing a grave sin. Those who do not serve Hashem and the ONLY commandment from Hashem’s Torah they heed is settling the Land of Israel, should be the ones serving in the army. At least they’re doing one mitzvah! So let's get those Tel Avivian "elite" draft dodgers into the army and leave G-d's soldiers alone. As long as there are secular draft dodgers, the government has no right forcing the religious to join the army. Religious Jews know the truth. The real reason the secular want haredim in the army is in order to annihilate them once and for all like they did to the Sephardic and Yemenite children 60 years ago. Haredim today are a threat to them. Seculars are dead worried and already panicking that very soon haredim will be a majority in Israel. If they're recruited into the secular army and are forced to desecrate Shabbat, listen to women singing, eat treif and what not, they'll accomplish their goal. May G-d protect us.

They will happily go to jail rather than forcefully serve. That will cost you and me a lot of money to feed them in jail (and don't say let them starve. We already pay a lot to feed Arab terrorists sitting in our jails.) And the Heredim who are proudly sitting in jail will just set the example for all those who follow!

They don't want to serve in the military, they don't want to perform civil service, they don't want to get a job; they don't want to do anything at all except reproduce and claim that their studying Torah in perpetuity. This is ridiculous. Either they do their part or the welfare should be cut off effective immediately. No service/No work/No positive contribution to society=no (welfare) money and no food. It's a simple equation that would resolve the issue favorably.

It does mean special incentives apart from draftees who are obligated to seve. It only means once again they will be a special category avoiding the most dangerous service, setting themselves apart from the rest of the population and engendering still more resentment. Why, there are even disabled youngsters serving in the idf. If they serve the Hareidi population should serve. Equity & justice demand it.

When the shooting starts, put these little cowards out-on-point, they'll learn quick. Nothing like a killed-or-be-killed moment: it's terrifying and exhilarating at the same time. Fear's a great motivator; it lets you know you're alive. War: some can do it...some can't! You have to learn to come to terms with your fear and embrace it; only then...can you learn to live with it (it's always there, but manageable in a solitary type of way); operate within its means. God bless the mighty IDF; I wish this ol' Boy could be there with you! Listen to your NCO's!

My thoughts exactly, but my post was censored.

Studying torah plays a most important role in securing the nation. The smartest would be to have haredim learn Torah and the non-religious to serve in the army.

If the religious jews dont want to serve in the army or contribute to the army then they should do it at their own expense. Why should the secular pay for their yeshiva studies, stipends, and bituach leumi? The religious students want to study in yeshiva, get married and have 5 children ... then pay for it yourself? Don't expect the secular to pay for you. For once read the Torah it is the sole responsibility of a man to keep his wife and children happy and to provide them.

If you get rid of the draft and pay people like the US army does, you will see.. 90% of the so called "patriotic" non religious will not sign up for the army because they really don't want to go to the army. And you will see the army because almost exclusively chareidi because all the chareidim would enlist in something that can pay the bills.

of 20 years' indoctrination from Yated Neeman, etc. I'm an IDF veteran with a smattering of religious training. By your reckoning, I'm the one whose spiritual health was in danger, not those whose training is intensive and lengthy. I'm the one who failed to serve Hashem. I ate treif, desecrated the Sabbath, and heard w*men singing, unlike G-d's soldiers. Indeed, let's do a census of secular draft dodgers and only after the last one is inducted should the first religious Jew go in. It's only fair. We're not a nation, after all; we're a collection of tribes and your tribe is better than my tribe. You said it yourself: "Religious Jews know the truth." But why soft-pedal the truth by saying that the secular want haredim in the army to annihilate them? Yated teaches us that the army was created for that purpose only. But one thing I can't figure out: if the secular annihilated the Sephardic and Yemenite children 60 years ago, who is it that your schools are putting up such a fight to keep out?

A good point was raised here. Let them be of some use to the country for a change. Let them spend three years doing some good. To enlist the haredi will not make them a part of the army. Can any Jew rely on them during the next war? Crisis?

I'm an IDF veteran and I think anyone who wants to study Torah instead of IDF service should be allowed to. According to Israel's ancient traditions it is the Torah that kept us as a nation through all the centuries of hate and persecution. It is the Torah that still protects us today. HaShem doesn't need our tanks, F16s and drones. Read the weekly parsha and you'll get the full story this week. Accordingly, anyone who truly and I mean truly can sit in Yeshiva for an additional 3 years and study Torah ought be permitted. To those who say Torah study should not be a national goal and does not protect us, lets do a simple test: place 20 young secular IDF veterans and 20 yeshiva veterans in a city like LA and come back in a generation. Lets see who is completely assimilated and who is intermarried and who has no Jewish identity and contrarily who still is married to other Jews, lives in a Jewish community and faces Jerusalem 3 times a day.

-Negotiations with thier Leaders? We had that, called Tal Law, a pure failure in the result. -Tal Law a success? Nevermind, sure the numbers of the servicing Haredim did raise, but the number of draft dodging Haredim raised MUCH more! MUCH! -Haredim friendly enviroment? So, you want Israel to develop a enviroment hostile to women, more hostile as it is? Where is the friendly enviroment for the scular, traditional Israelis or the druse or muslims? Israel should privilidge the haredim again? For what? That they show up for duty? For starting to work? Sorry, but your approach is just a Tal Law 2.0, a way for the haredim to get what they want, while being unfair to all others! So, FAIL!

So you mean whats needed to get the haredim to serve and to work, to become loyal israelis, is to establish a theocraty with religious coercion and misogyny? Well, no thanks^^ Israel is a proud democracy and should stay so!

Well, yes. Cells for them are not a solution, but why pay draft dodgers and work deniers? Benefit the good willing, without bending to thier will and punish the others with stopping supporting them in any way is an approach which could work!

We will see what is really important for Israel, when they come! What will save your life and Israel, the Tavor in your hand or the Torah? Remember the shoah! Superstition didnt save one single life.

The main valid reason is that the IDF does not want them or need them. The IDF has already said (correctly) that its job is to fight and win wars. To do that, the IDF would like to draft about 2-5% of the Haredim and release the rest. The political echelon is forcing the IDF to accept them, even though it is a waste of money and damages Israeli security. Another valid reason? Israel needs some people to serve in the army and needs some people to do Shirut Leumi. What Israel really needs is more people to work and pay taxes. That is why wise people want to abolish the Tal Law and let Haredim work, even if they did not serve, exactly like Arabs.

and the only ones Israel could truly rely on for the safety of the country. Haredim all pay taxes (#12) and pay the secular for their education in universities even though most yeshivot don't get a dime from the government!!! If the secular wouldn't be such racists and have such bitter hatred towards haredim they would see the truth. How stupid are those who think that some arms could do the job. If not for Haredim and Jews learning Torah, praying and keeping G-d's commandments, Israel would long have been taken away from the Jews. So stop your stupidity and foolishness by demanding Haredim to join an immoral army.

or do they just not comprehend. this is a good article with good points that could lead to a stronger Israel.

OF COURSE Haredim should be drafted into the IDF just like everyone else. Make more Nahal Haredi battalions and train them as combat units, artillery, everything. People here are getting their underpants all in a bunch because they don't want the Haredim to be treated like everyone else, they would like to see some serious anti-Haredi coercion, some real juicy payes-cutting and bacon-sandwich force-feeding! YEAH! And of course instead of just integrating Haredi people into the workforce, they would like to see them put into forced labor facilities (a certain TB'er from Afula keeps repeating this meme)

Leave them alone, they are soldiers of Hashem to protect the universe from aliens and non-believers. They study day and night, what more can you ask for?

into society and stop being arrogant. No snuggle sector of society should feed off the rest hen they are capable of providing for themselves. It is ridiculous that religious are paid to not work. Yes,yes, I know they pray, so what?My Torah learning and prayers are every bit as powerful and meaningful and connected to Hashem as any Haredi and yet I manage to accomplish my spiritual feats while earning my own keep. It is a wrong to not work for your own bread and expect others to hand it to you like a superior being.

No more free money for haredim. Who does not work does not eat!

So, stop lying, everybody here around now the facts! Btw, what about looking for a job?