Opinion
Jewish state is Satan
Manfred Gerstenfeld
Published: 05.06.12, 18:12
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31. You cop that posture, you pay a price, #24
Cameron ,   USA   (06.05.12)
32. Dr. Manfred Gerstenfeld wrote the worst kind of analyses.
Buskila ,   South America   (06.05.12)
J.P. Sartre wrote 'La Question Juive', to explain the various degrees of personal identity, and the absurd that relates to this confined label. But, what's going on in the present European (statistic, are a mesurements at one moment in time and factor of no reliability) attitude towards Israel, thus towards the Jews. But this rather general attitude in confined to Europe where Antisimitism arose and became of PHILOSOPHICAL SECTOR OF HIGH STUDIES, and as a consequence gained an aura of academic legitimacy. This attitude has currently encouraged by various factors that are undermining the collective health of EUROPE, it ought to be underlined that this attitude premeate EUROPEANS, and somehow, with all due respect to Mr Gerstenfeld, it slained some Jews as well (Arnold Zweig, even personality like Max Nordau, yes the father of Zionism, was reffering in some of his Socially critical books), the other reason is economic, plus obvious influences of the Muslim citizens, and the lack of a coherence consensus among nations. Its an uneasy mixed which is not that refected in South or North America, or even the growing importance of Africa, India and China. So, lets not allow a pitty (small pittyful) continent to barge out the existence of Jew as an identity or Israeli as a national label.
33. IsraelĀ“s fault, since israel allows them to be nazis
Ivan ,   Haifa   (06.06.12)
Instead accusing Europe for torturing and killing immigrants, for Afghanistan,etc. Israel tries to defend itself. Israelis must learn that Israel is a very bad country, but there is not better country in the world,all states are shit...so don{t allow them to tell you you are the only shit...show them what they do against humanity also.
34. Not real at all !!!
Adrian Berolsky ,   Argentina   (06.05.12)
Please, don't promote a false perception, Euros with a little brain, can see reality from miles away, still. Medinat Israel , is the great democratic State, even under fire permanently by arms and payed media !!! The time cover all, and discover everything!!!
35. Forgive our "oversensitivity"
Koose E Mack ,   NY NY   (06.05.12)
For those of you who posted that you are not against Jews....much obliged... However, anyone who has studied the Tisha B'av prayers can't help but be a bit "sensitive" to persecution of Jews in virtually every country in Europe. By persecution, I mean murder, rape, robbery, and expulsion; not threats and name calling. All the persecutions and pogroms culminated in the Holocaust. So we are talking about millions of Jews butchered in Europe over several hundred years. So we Jews do get a little "sensitive" and a bit "self pitying". We have a right to be...Don't like it....Kish our Jewish Touchases!
36. 6 - Self imposed separation ,...
split ,   US   (06.05.12)
It doesn't end after death, forgot cemeteries ,...
37. Jewish history in Europe
(06.06.12)
19th and 20th century Jewish history in Europe was about the struggle between whites and Jews over political power, wealth, media control , financial control, cultural influence, leftist revolutionary movements,elite jobs and ethnic self determination. This ''Jews killed Jesus'' stuff explains nothing. Nor does continuing to present Jews as morally superior innocent victims of white racism. Better to honestly discuss what really happened and try to learn from it.
38. Thank you Marucho
Arie. R. ,   Ashkelon, Israel   (06.05.12)
Simple words to the point: heart and brain.
39. popularity
desertson ,   london uk   (06.06.12)
Could it be the Palestinian policy? Bombing, murder, destruction, piracy, child abduction etc...could be unpopular. Just a thought.
40. The Adversary
Adam Neira ,   Paris, France   (06.06.12)
The word "Satan" in Hebrew means "the adversary". The State of Israel is not perfect by any means, but out of the 193 nations on Planet Earth at this time it is up there with the best, so it is definitely not "satanic". It is however tiny but mighty. Some people don't like the fact that Jews have some real power right now in the world, thus the pejoratives that still get slung around. Also, Jean Paul Sartre's writings are not a patch on Albert Camus, if you are interested in the existentialist genre.
41. DIFFICULT FOR AMERICAN JEWS TO FACE
ZIMBI ,   NJISA   (06.06.12)
42. Hmm... Pathetic indeed
Helder Vieira ,   Porto, Portugal   (06.06.12)
Quite a stir, it seems... The general tone was not creative, however, as it keeps standing on the main argument that the persecution suffered in the past at the hands of europeans gives a right to do the same to another people today, and that there's some sort of blood libel that forces the newer european generations to be a silent accomplice in the drang nach Osten unraveling in front of our eyes. On both fronts, however, things are not running quite well, are they ? Not for lack of warnings, one should say, including those on Ynet's pages... Interestingly, the article is a clear attempt to go beyond that flaw and renew the self-assurance, at a time when, inevitably ( and as predicted so many times ), the facts on the ground nurture an ideological hardening, one in which supremacism no longer needs to be disguised.
43. thank you ##
Bluegrass Picker ,   Afula   (06.06.12)
build, build, build up our Hebrew Republic from the River to the Sea. Those who legally & loyally join us are welcome. Everyone else is part of the Neo Dark Ages, I will not waste a grey hair thinking about them.
44. but "Arab states" and "Islamic states" are Angels?!
(06.06.12)
45. blame teh j00000000s
teh j00000000000000s ,   usaf   (06.06.12)
its the relatively few right wing corporatist likud j000000s who run everything that make all jews look bad
46. jews & jews
vinni gambini ,   nyc usa   (06.06.12)
Mike, decoding the nonsense in your argument. Yet to this day, Jews remain 'unwelcome' in many places, clubs, societies, countries- simply being a Jew, therefore, why is it not acceptable for a Jew to have a preference to be with his own people? The reason is 'hate' mate. Unadulterated hate. 'Some of my best friends are Jewish'....that nonsense.
47. To # 37
Rick ,   USA   (06.06.12)
Between whites and Jews? What sort of warped universe exists between those ears of yours? Mostly vacuum I would guess.
48. Israel is only the mini satan America is the great satan
zionist forever   (06.06.12)
49. Poor #6, crying how Jews foster 'differences'
diamond ,   chicago   (06.06.12)
Well, MIKE, we wouldn't NEED seperate security for our temples if you non-Jews wouldn't SHOOT OUR KIDS IN THE HEAD like in Toulouse, or MURDER OUR PARENTS like the attack on Chabad in Mumbai. Funny, I don't hear you complaining about seperate Muslim youth camps... ya know, the ones where they teach SHOOTING and GRENADE THROWING, as in upstate New Yorka and elsewhere. What? You dont' know??!!
50. Europe will be mosdtly Muslim
Reuven   (06.06.12)
in the future. In other words it has no future.
51. No antisemitism because all the world wants to convert
Paqid Yirmeyahu ,   Ra'anana, Israel   (06.06.12)
We know that because the Ultra-Orthodox rabbis proclaim it to all of the converts who are converting for because everyone in the world wants to be a Jew... Jews (!) by choice who thereafter have to live their lives keeping their conversion secret within the Jewish community or under the extortion that, whenever the rabbis please, they will "unrecognize" them if they dare research, study, believe or, horrors, publish historical findings that conflict with the Ultra-Orthodox rabbis. Misojudaics are wrong. But the head-in-the-sand canard that Jews aren't at all responsible is a pathetic case of Jews shooting themselves in the heart. The Khareidim spitting and throwing feces and urine on Christians and women ARE as the world depicts them. The world just wrongly generalizes that to all Jews. Well, all Jews are allowing it, so that's not undeserved. If you think that Khareidi image isn't responsible for the misojudaism AND in large measure the image of Israel too, then you delude yourselves.
52. #42 Your problem is that....
Mark ,   Lodz, Poland   (06.06.12)
.....You read what you want to read into our talkbacks and you now reveal your leanings. Your posts are based on pure ignorance at best. Their gloating nature, however, suggests something more sinister. FO @#28..was too kind to you
53. Peace can change things
David ,   Rishon   (06.06.12)
I remember in 90s worls/europeans were proisraelis, because peace talks, even Dana International became political eurovision. If you want people in world change opinion about us -- need to give palestinians country. We jews do npt love in eastern jerusalem or in arabic vilages. So why occupy them? Just give them. You want prosperity? Give them. See Singapore, mighty tiny country. We cpuld be Singapore here in ME. Im not leftist. Im a realist. Im a businessman, so we love peace and calm enviorment.
54. Nothing new...
Helder Vieira ,   Porto, Portugal   (06.06.12)
#52, you're right, there is something sinister in all this. I've been reading posts and talkbacks for decades, as well as opinion texts and raw news. And the trend is very clear, an increasing leaning towards open supremacism, something that cannot be avoided, all things considered. I'm not alone in this perspective, as you probably do know that many israeli authors predicted it a long time ago. Yes, it is sinister, we've seen it unfolding almost a century ago in Europe, and we know how it ends.
55. #53. Israel "occupies" her own land.
Chaim ,   Israel   (06.06.12)
#53. Jerusalem, Judea and Samaria legally belong to Israel. This has been incontrovertibly proven by countless legal scholars. Israel "occupies" her own land.
56. #25 Paul: Illusionist thinking
berlonski ,   berlin   (06.06.12)
Of course all these reports and op-ed's on ynet are in their one-sidedness more propaganda than anything else. It is for example actually funny to read again and again that Europe with about 3-4% of the overall population being Muslim is in danger of "muslimification". But I think you are an illusionist, Paul, if you ask for a more balanced reporting here. First, emotionalist propaganda sells much better than dry reporting. I think Ynet has just found a market that pays off very well. Wearing the coat of a news channel with high journalist standards, but being some kind of yellow press for politics actually. And second, much more worrisome: The nationalist and/or religious forces in Israel actually NEED and WORK for a widening gap to Europe (and the US), because the pluralist and democratic standards of the West just do not combine with their autocratic, suprematist, black&white and often religious view of the world. The results are all these op-eds here systematically bashing the Western countries that are actually the biggest supporters of Israel in the world. I just hope that they will not wake up one day feeling terribly left alone. India for sure will not help then.
57. #2- you're an idiot
nadav ,   tlv   (06.06.12)
I am a secular person and i proud zionist, enough so that i made aliyah from american luxury to the quagmire that is israel today. Saying that, yes, I- and all honest, working Israelis, are fed up with Haredim (and Arabs), who refuse to work, pay taxes, or serve in the army or do national service! The enmity that Haredim and are of their OWN doing! As for settlers, I don't care one way or the other, but I do believe Samaria and Judea is Jewish land, and as such, we can choose if we want to give part of- or none, of it away- the majority will decide!
58. to the Portuguese israel hater, Helder
nadav ,   tlv   (06.06.12)
I don't see you complaining about your neighbours illegal occupation of ancestral Basque land, where after deliberate Castillian persecution and settlement, they are now a minority in their own country! What makes you anti-semitic is that you and your ilk single out Israel and hold it to an obscenely different level than all other countries. You are uncomfortable with Jewish sovereignty. It's that simple!
59. #58
Helder Vieira ,   Porto, Portugal   (06.06.12)
Not a good example, sorry, you'll have to try something else. The basques currently have full citizenship rights and regional autonomy, so for those and other reasons I'd probably have some difficulty convincing them to claim independence. Maybe if you talk to them... On the contrary, the palestinian population in the occupied territories doesn't have israeli citizenship, it lives under a de facto apartheid regime. I don't know exactly how does that relate to the 'jewish sovereignty' you mentioned, but I'm sure there must be a connection somewhere...
60. UK Mike
sarah   (06.06.12)
"Exclusivity?" Hardly--in nations like yours where Scout meetings are held on our Sabbath, or the US where school functions and college boards are held on our Sabbath, where non-kosher foods are served, we are merely escaping the tyranny of a smug and bigoted majority who has repeatedly shown its disdain and hatred over the centuries, first justified by religion, then nationalism, then race. You'll have to excuse us for not wanting to hang out with smug European elitists who despise us and treat our people and our customs with contempt.
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