Opinion
Will settlers win the war?
Donniel Hartman
Published: 07.06.12, 00:11
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1. ???
Yossy Hershkop   (06.07.12)
I have a lot to write but I will just post this. How dare you call yourself a Rabbi while advocated for the removal of Jews from their homes.
2. settler wars
Iletzter ,   TA- Israel   (06.07.12)
who have always prided themselves with having foresight, wisdom and aspirations. I wonder where is the wisdom and aspirations of the author of this article ??? Maybe we should not wage war with our settler brethren ? Maybe we should wage "war" with our enemies ??? It is Shalom Now people who have labeled the settlers as our enemies. I tend to think it is these "peaceniks" and defeatist leftists who are our enemies.
3. Destroying Jewish settlements is far from impossible
Daniel ,   Formerly Israel   (06.07.12)
It's called a pogrom, and the Supreme court, with the IDF in tow can give the Czar and his cossacks a run for their money in the pogrom department. P.S. since when does an elected legislature (whose job is to make laws) enforcing the willl of an unelected judiciary (whose job is supposedly to enforce legislatively-enacted laws) constitute rule of law?
4. Will the Zionist dream be realized?
Ilan   (06.07.12)
Beit El, Shilo and Hebron no less than Tel Aviv and Jerusalem. Shomron and Yehuda no less than the Sharon, Gallel and the Negev
5. There is something called LAW
Dave from Brazil ,   Sao Paulo, Brazil   (06.07.12)
Just because they are Jews doesn't mean they can build where the law does not permit. You can't go and build on a privately-owned land, it's simple common sense. Also he says Israeli society will take care of the people in the settlements and make sure they do not become homeless. Very good article.
6. I hate to say this...
David ,   Haifa   (06.07.12)
..., but the settlers, Hamas, Hezbollah, and Iran have already won the war.
7. You're right, Hartman. Those settlers must be shipped out!
Yakov ,   Teaneck, NJ, USA   (06.07.12)
With their blue jeans they're not a very wholesome lot! They come from who-knows-where and they violate a mysterious country called ''international" whose capital is the star Betelgeuse. Who dares to violate the law of Betelgeuse? Certainly not the Supreme Court! These AGITATORS with their BLUE JEANS start with a little place but then the infestation SPREADS! Uproot them! Send them back to Poland! SHIP. THEM. OUT. Just like Hitler said: Juden raus! Jews out! Out. Out. Out. No, it's gone too far already. Where to begin? Let's start with the biggest settlement of all and teach them a lesson ONCE AND FOR ALL. Let's get RID of the biggest settlement: TEL AVIV. Tel Aviv must be buried. Destroy Tel Aviv! Here's what, Hartman. Contact Ama-do-the-job and Ayatollah Haman-ei and arrange to have Tel Aviv nuked. We must not bomb Iran. Tel Aviv needs a good nuking and we need somebody really despicable to do it. Let's get Iran to get rid of the settlers FOR us! Boy have you got great ideas, Hartman. Get rid of the settlements! What a great idea! One good nuking on Tel Aviv and the settlers will pack up and leave. Do you know what settlement has more blue jeans than any other? Tel Aviv! Round up all the Tel Aviv settlers and drive them into a ghetto called "settlement bloc" and then ship them off to Poland and Germany! They'll like it there! It's full of summer camps called Auschwitz and Dachau! But Iran can help us save money on the cattle cars! We always knew Iran was good for something. Will the settlers win? No way! Iran has that taken care of. Don't bomb Iran. We can kill two birds with one stone by using up Iranian weapons on that USELESS settlement, Tel Aviv. Settlers are vermin. Great article, Hartman.
8. Delusional hartman belongs behind a fence-no internet access
Bunnie Meyer ,   Los Angeles, CA USA   (06.07.12)
9. Most of Israel stands with Judea/Samaria.
Chaim ,   Israel   (06.07.12)
Hartman doesn't get it and never will. Jews of Judea and Samaria don't have to convince Israel of anything. The vast majority of Israel stands with Judea and Samaria. They know Judea and Samaria belongs to Jews. They know Judea and Samaria make Israel viable. Hartman belongs to an ever declining far left fringe who don't have a clue.
10. #1 He can be a reform rabbit or conservative
(06.07.12)
which means "hopefully" a non-assimilated Jew.
11. Do our rights come from G-d, or from the intl community?
Will ,   Israel   (06.07.12)
The G-d of Israel, in the Scripture of Israel (Tanakh / OT), promised that the People of Israel would return (after a long Exile) to the Land of Israel. With whom do the leftists want to make peace? With Hamas? With Abbas? No; even they realize that this is impossible. When they talk about "peace", they want to make peace with the "international community". If the borders of our land, and the laws of our nation, are dictated by the intl community, then it is THEY who graciously allow us to live in our native homeland. If we, as a nation, assert our sovereignty and live by our own laws (and ultimately, G-d's law), then we testify to the world that our rights to our land come ONLY from the Creator. That is a statement that the Left, even the "religious" Left, are afraid to make.
12. don't be silly: EXPERIENCE shows problems not contrived
rick ,   walnut creek   (06.07.12)
of course, even assuming a competent Israeli govt (unlike olmert's) that actually knew what it was doing and did the required planning, the problems inherent in mass relocations are real. they are not fantasies or fabrications. don't be silly.
13. Where there beats a true Jewish heart...
Taz Man ,   USA   (06.07.12)
...there will always live the Zionist dream--a spiritual awakening that will never be denied...only blessed and nurtured until it springs-up into the eternal day. Where the children play without fear; and, hate is defeated by love and hope that feeds the Zionist message of an eternal Israel and its eternal Jerusalem. God bless, Israel and His Jerusalem! A Christian Zionist
14. the top of the mountain
Leah Goldsmith ,   Itamar Israel   (06.07.12)
Mr. Hartman clearly ignores Israel's most basic need to survive. Let's put ideology aside now- Israel has a coast on the west and a valley on the east. The only strategic advantage it DOES have is the mountainous region of Judea - Samaria which, thanx to the Jewish people living there and serving as a fortification for the whole state- Tel Aviv sits in relative calm.Without it- Chamas will have already launched their missiles into Hartmans' study. No- YOU dont stick YOUR head in the sand. Dr of what????????????
15. The war
israel israeli ,   tel aviv   (06.07.12)
Fatah, Hezbollah, Hamas, Jihad, the Brotherhood, Syria, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Iran: just a partial list of organizations and countries that publically call for the extermination of the Jews. But the only thing that concerns Hartman is his war to destroy "the settlers", a group of fellow citizens that make up half the IDF and who saved his sorry ss hundreds of times. This op-ed is further proof that to be a Leftist you have to be crazy, or stupid.
16. Twisting Torah To Suit Society
Ariel Ben Yochanan ,   Kfar Tapuah, Efraim   (06.07.12)
B”H This is an outrageous article from a self-proclaimed so called “rabbi”. Let’s just pick out one of his outright blasphemous phrases: “As a people, however, who have always prided themselves with having foresight, wisdom and aspirations, we need to stop deluding ourselves into thinking that maximalist definitions of the borders of Eretz Israel and of the rights of Jews to settle therein are sustainable in the long run”. Who gives this “rabbi” the authority to speak out against our G-d given Torah? Torah defines the Land and defending it is Milhemet Mitzvah, an obligatory war. By “obligatory” halacha, Jewish Law, means that we, ordinary Jews, don’t have a choice in deciding whether we want to fight it or not. This so called conservative “rabbi” is bending and twisting the Torah to suit society, whereas the purpose of the Jew in this world is to bend society to suit Torah.
17. No Need to uproot settlers and settlements
Saul ,   Israel   (06.07.12)
Let them stay where they are and become part of a future Palestinian state. Sounds like a win win situation to me.
18. settlers
mike ,   uk   (06.07.12)
That's right, build, build and build those settlements. The educated jews are leaving Israel and what is left is a religius rabble. No wonder the Palestinian are not taking any steps towards a two state solution, there is time on their side to see Israel literally implode. Most Israeli have dual nationility, the warning signs are already there.
19. # 5 You are right, Dave
Keren, IL-BR   (06.07.12)
I am too from Brazil and I full agree with you. We Jews should not grab Palestinian land, but the right and the fanatic religious here think all the land belogn to Israel even if the land is peopled by other people with rights. I feel ashamed for being Jewish when I see this because our religious has the commandment of loving and respecting your neighbour. In Israel inside the Green Line most Israelis like me oppose this move. By now the right is winning but things will change when the US stops supporting us. Thanks for reasonable sense. Valeu. Obrigada.
20. #9
Ehud ,   Tel-Aviv, Israel   (06.07.12)
Get a GPS and urgently. The average Israeli has a decency level way beyond yours, you are so YESTERDAY.All we want is a DECENT but REALISTIC deal between two peoples so that we can live out our lives in peace.Seperate religion from these crazies NOW.!!!
21. Deapest Jewish Values = Longing to give our precious land to
Gabriel ,   Israel   (06.07.12)
the people who will hate us for ever??? What kind of wacko is this guy? Obviously he isn't a real rabbi... Obviously he has never read the Torah which he sys employes him. No, He wants to be G-d and make the rules and borders. Yes, the SETTLERS will win some day. And their G-d will help them win. As for these half whits. G-d will explain it to them when the time comes. I know Who has the supreme power and final say.
22. #9 How delusional
Keren IL-BR   (06.07.12)
1. If Arabs had accepted the Peel Partition or the UN Partition, Jews would never have Jerusalem and Judea and Samaria. This only happened after 67. Before that, for the sake of having a homeland, we didn't talk about "divine rights" etc. 2. Most of Israelis oppose the settlements. The proof is that you only have 300.000 people threre out of 5.5 million Israelis. And consider that the land is cheap there. Even though, Israelis tend to be decent and civilized, respecting the law. 3. We can fool ourselves and pretend there are no Palestinians there, that the US will be on our side forever. The Pied Noirs in Algeria thought the same, the settlers in Yamit and Gaza did the same. There will be one day and this is not far where all these fanaticals will be broght back to Israel. 4. Israel exists and is recognized as a State among the States inside the Green Line. Over the line, there is another country, called Palestine. Any grab of land there is criminal.
23. Reality is what makes it not necessary
mick ,   USA   (06.07.12)
The capital R Reality of the situation is that no one really cares if Israel occupies the West Bank forever. Sure there is plenty of talk, but no one is actually going to do anything about it. Intel and Apple make their chips in Israel, real sanctions would send a country way back down the tech tree. So the necessary reality is that Israel occupy the West Bank forever. Its not necessarily the right thing, but it is the cold reality that the public must understand.
24. to Leah @ 14 - Kol Hacavod !
Jennie ,   Israel/US   (06.07.12)
Very well said, Leah.. You message to the author of this article is brilliant...
25. #18, utter nonsense
Jake   (06.07.12)
Keep reading and believing those articles from Der Guardian, if it makes you feel better. Your claim that "most Israelis have dual nationality" and that educated Israelis are leaving Israel is bogus and fiction. 9000 Israel expats are leaving America alone each year for Israel, and that number is growing. Israel is thriving, whereas your Europe is imploding and collapsing. That's the truth which ya just can't handle. But thanks for at least admitting that that the palestinians aren't interested in peace.
26. #22 Go buy a pair of reading glasses
Jake   (06.07.12)
And read the 1949 Armistice Accords which created the "Green Line". It specifically says that the ceasefire lines are NOT international borders and are established without prejudice to territorial claims by the parties. That is the how the Arabs wanted it, and the UN acceded. The Green Line was never a legally recognized border, full stop. And oh, what is this country called "Palestine"? I have never heard of it. P.S. It's not very nice to write false flag posts in other people's names.
27. Isn't this Donniel Hartman the Haaretz 'rabbi'?
Jake   (06.07.12)
He sure looks and behaves the part: Leftist and arrogant. But at least he includes one small grain of truth in his rant: That behind the settlements is an "ideology that is broadly shared within Israeli society". Indeed, and thankfully one that rejects Hartman's and Haaretz's anti-Jewish agenda.
28. Dissapointed in Rabbi Hartman
Nehama ,   Jerusalem   (06.07.12)
I was under impression Rabbi Hartman was pro settlements and in favor of Jews settling Samaria/Judea I was disappointed to learn he is not more defensive of them. I live next door to Hartman girls school. I don't know if he heads that school but hope school is not too leftist. I am tired of hearing settlers bashed. They are heroes defending heart of country while we sit in Jerusalem /tel aviv in our safety net. They live in danger settling the land.
29. #22 More Americans live outside New York than inside it. LOL
Chaim ,   Israel   (06.07.12)
#22. I'm afraid you are delusional. Palestine never existed as a state and never will. Israel's claim to Judea and Samaria has been incontrovertibly proven by many world leading international law experts, including Eugene Rostow, author of U.N. Resolution 242. Moreover, Israelis constantly tell pollsters they oppose ceding our more than 3,500 year old ancestral heartland. More Americans live outside New York State than inside New York State. Does that mean America should cede New York State? LOL
30. # 26 29
Keren, IL-BR   (06.08.12)
26. Read resolution 242. You can fool yourselve, but all Israeli leaders negotiate based on this parameter. Forget about the Armistice Accords. Focus on 242. # 29 Israel accepted the Peel and the UNGA partition without Judea, Samaria and Jerusalem. Had the Arabs accepted, Israel would be living happily within the Green Line. Caldeus, Incas, Navajos, Hebrews, all this ancient peoples had lands. Israel was created based on the idea of a safe haven for Jews not as divine rights. Do you have a basic kinowledge of History or not? Americans living outside NY are American citizens living outside NY. What s your point, dude? Palestine is a nation as hundreds of nations. It is not a State because Israel doesn´t allow it. There is ANY evidence in international law about Israeli claim to Judea and Samaria. I repeat ANY. You are lying.
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