Instead of dealing with the real issue of Haredim contributing to Israeli society in general and Israel's defence in particular, they would rather dismiss these demands as " discrimination and prejudice". I am so sorry that it impinges upon their lifestyle. Well, guess what? Army service impinges on our lifestyle, too. Over the years, the Haredi community has become more and more parasitical, as they built a self perpetuating, insular system, based upon receiving as much as possible from the state to finance their lifestyles, while giving nothing of substance in return. They really do not get the concept of contributing to the society you are a part of - maybe because they do not see themselves as a part of our society. ( Then how can they in good conscience take money and use public services from this society which they do not want to be part of??) Oh, they say that they ARE contributing, by praying for our souls and for the safety of Israel. Oh, right - and ensuring the perpetuation of the Jewish nation. Really?! What arrogance, defining for themselves what "contribution" is. In real terms, their contribution has no value and provides no comfort. The writer says that they pay more taxes proportionally than us. What BS. Let's see: Income tax? No, they don't work or earn enough of a salary to "pay" more than us. They don't pay tax for money they get for yeshiva studies. Many of them are diamond traders. Do you see any taxes paid on undeclared income? I don't. Next: VAT. VAT is an indirect tax, equal to every consumer. Is it our fault that they decided to have 10 or 12 children and then have to feed them? So how can they claim that they pay more VAT? Property taxes: No, those taxes are equal in proportion to how many properties you own and what you purchase. If they want to invest in properties in order to rent them out, thereby financing their lifestyle without having to go out and work, then that is the price you pay, buddy. Worse than that: You don't pay taxes on rental income up to 10'000 NIS per month, so even there, they don't pay tax. You get the idea. But what really makes my blood boil is that because of their political clout in holding the balance of power, they sit in government and make decisions about settlements in the West Bank etc, or about going to war - decisions which have a direct influence on the risks and dangers we and our children who serve in the army have to face - while their children are not in danger. They sit comfortably in the safety of their yeshivot and "pray harder" for the safety of Israel. Meanwhile, G-d forbid, our children are paying the price in blood. Now, if you ask me, that is TRUE discrimination.

I should be discrimared agaist in the same way. Haridim are supported by the state. Haridim do not have to serve in the IDF Haridim get special bus service & lower fares Haridim have special super markets with lower prices.

As someone on the Haredi end of the Orthodox spectrum, I believe there is a genuine case to be made for exempting full-time yeshivah students from the draft. Unfortunately this article totally fails to make that case! The most basic question is, does the IDF really need every Jewish and Arab 18 year old to be drafted? Will it increase national security? Will it increase tension and kulturkampf?

People that are not willing to defend their own country are unworthy of being a people or having a country.

a shiite from lebanon meets a sunni from gaza. they would normally kill each other, but instead they drink tea and talk about how they want to kill the jews and then they are the best of friends. A Frenchman and a German would normally fight wars against each other, but since they can both blame all the world's troubles on israel, they are at peace. hating the jews makes people feel good the world over. now, i see the same thing with hating haredim: a secular jew and a national religious jews would normally hate each other, but of course, "we both hate the haredim, right? ... "

Approximately 55% of Haredim didn't work in 2011. So, where are they getting the money to pay those taxes? They're getting it from the government and from my tax money. The Haredim are no discriminated against in the work sector, they are incredibly discriminating in relation to what, if any, work they are willing to do. And yes, the author is completely correct when they say that it costs more to have more children. So, stop having them if you can't afford them. People around the world make that decision everyday. That's not discrimination... it's common sense. Additionally, it's important to get your facts right. The ultraorthadox haven't existed "for thousands of years." Haredim have only been around for a couple hundred. So too goes the historical argument. Haredim need to contribute to this country like everyone else. They can feel free to preserve their "unique culture" at home. But in daily life they need to decide to be citizens of this country. That includes working, and yes serving in the army, like all citizens of this country.

I have just read the most unbelievable anti-semetic garbage lurking under anti-haredi feelings. Which only means everything the author wrote is true. Long live the Haredim!!

Instead of addressing the issue about Haredim puling their weight, you go into denial and call it anti-semitism, so as not to actually deal with the perfectly valid points made. Perjaps that's because you actually have no reasonable answer/excuse/reason not to serve and contribute.

There would be no need to write not nice things about them .

If you read the beginning of the book of Joshua... It says that in order for him to succeed he is not to deviate from the Torah .. also says that people should learn Torah day and night.. Chances are if the IDF would be scrupulous in observing Torah law they would have Chareidim in the army. Since the army is not following Torah law they are putting the country in danger while the Chareidi Torah learning is actually protecting the country.

they are protecting the country " ? really do you also belive in the tooth fairy ? I prefer the protection of our hard working dedicated men and women in the IDF for that role thankyou. " "They do not accept the rules of the game - equal work, equal pay and equal duties. They said, 'No, we have a special status in which we do not work and we do not pay taxes and we do not defend the country; you defend it for us,"

And we all saw how well THAT worked in the Holocaust, when they studied Torah day and night...If I remember the book of Joshua, the children of Israel participated in a BATTLE after the walls surrounding Jericho were breached with swords, spears and what-not. They didn't just sit on their asses and learn Torah.

eye to evil that happens in the secular society,and blows out of proportion evil in the orthodox society. The majority of Orthodox people are Menschen.

To #35 and 40 and all others claiming antisemitism: Rather than claim antisemitism, address the issues! I personally don't care how one chooses to practice their religion, as long as they contribute to society through military or national service AND they are financially self-sufficient and not require welfare from the government. I cannot think of any group who as a life-style choice purposely is poor to receive tax payer support. The population of Haredim is growing exponentially compare with the rest of the Israeli population, and at some point, this economic model is not sustainable. The Israeli societal model is flawed. To those claiming antisemitism, you should be addressing this issue, and add some value to this discussion.

Im told that the Torah confirms without question the precedence of PROTECTING YOUR COMMUNITY and FAMILY and the TORAH against those than try to destroy it over STUDY and PRAYER

If the army would be going according to the laws of the Torah , you would have more chareidim in the army. While the men are sitting and learning the WIVES are working super hard to support the family just as much (if not more)than any man supporting the family.There have been ancient battles where the soldiers were instructed not to take any spoils.. Those that didn't follow those divine instructions spoiled it for the rest of the army. If you want them to play by the rules of the game then you have to make sure that their freedom of religion doesn't get violated. The rules of the game have to be fair. At this stage of the game they aren't fair when it comes to Chareidim.

who require some accomodations to serve in the IDF . The IDF can't fullfill all the requirements of everyone . Others have rights too .

Yehuda Shein founded 'Equality Now; in order to 'bring the various sectors of Israeli society together??? He is either joking or delusional. His piece reads like a delusional rant. I admire the haredim for preserving their way of devout Judaism. But Shein does them and everyone else a great disservice by accusing the governnebt of "sytematic racial discrimination against the ultra orthodox" He then claims that the haredim have "given up their basic human rights" and have never taken to the streets in Protest".! Is he blind? Mr. Shein needs to honestly address the problems that haredim face.rather than denying reality. The haredim are understandably afraid of secular society which they rightly believe will try to change haredi behavior. Deal directly with their fears. Some haredim serve successfully in the IDF - talk to them Mr. Shein ask them how they achieve this. The haredim are poor because they are very under-employed, Encourage them to work with employerss and vice -versa to address this massive problem. As for bringing Israeli society together? The IDFis a great equalizer, socializer and learning experience in seeing others as people and not just as the group they come from. Mr. Shein cannot help bring people together when he sees the non-haredim public, the government and the IDF as the enemy.

such a sweet kid you're Timmy. By the tone of your question I assume you must be 4-5 years old. I'll start from the beginning: the torah is a book of fiction written by men, based on many other different oldest books. The circular logic used in the book is not meant to be taken seriously, and in fact it's not taken seriously by smart people. you see Timmy, just because someone dresses as Napoleon and tells everyone he is Napoleon, that doesn't mean he's Napoleon. He's not lying, he's just insane. Just believing in something, no matter how hard, doesn't necessarily make it true. The same goes for the bible: insane people say "the bible is the word of god because it says it is, so it must be true, because it's written that it is, so it must be true, because the bible is the word of word, because that's what written in the book, so it must be true, because...etc" in ever concentric circles. Bottom line: who the phack cares what this horrible book says? is nothing but good fiction, so you shouldn't take it seriously. Is just a story. Now go to sleep Timmy. Tomorrow i'll tell you the truth about Santa claus and the tooth fairy.

Just like in a marriage it takes both sides to make a solid marriage. Solidarity is blocked by the Haridim in that they are not willing to accept a different behavior on any issue they feel is sacred and in some cases use a violent protest to make their point. As for discrimination against the Haridim the discrimination is in fact against the rest of the population. In the non-Haridi world people work for a living, serve in the IDF, and for the most part pay for their education nor do the special bus lines with reduced fare or special supermarkets with lower prices. I trhink you are pointing your finger in the wrong direction.

lets face it where ever the harideem go they cause trouble. Quite obviously if they have time to riot they have time to serve in the IDF. Israel is a democratic state and not a state run according to Jewish Law , fact! The army bends over backwards to accomdate their so called special needs which as we all know is just an exscuse for these parasites not to serve. Game up buddy the hard working , tax payers of this country are no longer prepared to fund this so called life style of theres , we all have to carry our fair share of the burden and that includes the harideem. I have no problem putting them to a form of national service, let them sweep the streets for all i care, work in hospitals become productive members of society. We will not rest untill justice is served.

As a former Haredi who has left the fold, but whose children (all married now) are still there, I can tell you that "Solidarity" will always be a one way street. The Haredi world view - regardless of the substantial differences between various sects - is a medieval Black & White. On the communal level there is no gray, no nuances, or acceptance of "The Other" (on the personal level, there are occasional cracks in this self righteous wall). On the communal level, this means that the Haredim will always be ready to take from the general public (while complaining of discrimination) without ever assuming the basic responsibilities of citizenship. Cutting back the various Haredi state sponsored stipends to the same level of all other citizens will not only improve the state's finances, but will eventually force Israeli's Haredim to do what their brethren overseas do: WORK for a living. Compared to the Israeli Haredi communities, those overseas are, on the whole, less closed and less radical - trends which should be encouraged by the government here in Israel.

Kipot Srugot could play an important role in making Haredim accept modern ways. Why are the Kipot Srugot not visible, not more vocal? Many of them say they don't like the Haredim.

I find this article incredibly offensive to people like me, and the many thousands of haredim in Israel who have no voice to express their opposition to the self-styled haredi leaders. It is hypocrytical to claim that "the army wants to gradually impose secular culture" whilst it is perfectly acceptable for haredi culture to enforce stringent rules, and severely punish perceptions of deviation. The author of this article has a poor understanding of the haredi people, who are oppressed by its own culture (not by outsiders).