Livini might not have been tthe best leader but if she didn't have principles she would have sold out to Shas and SHE WOULD BE THE PRIME MINISTER TODAY not ZigZag Netanyahu. You statement was stupid and shows you lack od knowledge!

The Gemara in Pesachim 49b states "Illiterate people hate bnei Torah (Torah learners)". No other explanation for their hate of haredi Torah learners is necessary.

What is the problem with learning Torah AND doing army service? Who told you they can be religious only on my expense? Parasites - that's the name for it.

Talmud is NOT the word of G-d. It's His intepretation by fallible men. Talmud DOES NOT COME before the Tanach. And in the Talmud there is written everything and the contrary of everything. Haredim must serve and live like all other Israelis. They're always free to emigrate, if Israel is not comfortable for you.

I have been in large crowds before very many times, and would estimate the numbers between 25 and 30,000. The organizers estimated 35,000, although unless you were up on the podium or one of the rooftops, it is hard to take in the topology where it was held. But from my walking about the entire area the protest covered, only someone who did a "drive by" glance would come up with numbers so low. Most of the folks I saw were middle aged, middle class and currently serving in the reserves, not professional activists. Fathers & mothers, working/business folk, taxpaying salt-of-the-Earth types. Every time Bibi's names was mentioned, the crowd booed and hissed, albeit orderly and politely. I feel this must be said in order that the import of the numbers, and the demographic, this issue affects is of great import in any upcoming elections. Bibi, your time is up. Please call new elections so we can undo the mass confusion that marred the last one and put the 2nd placed party into power via a corrupt power sharing arrangement with a very selfish and incompetent coalition partner: Shas.

The Talmud is not the Tanach. The Pentateuch, "Five Tools" in ancient Greek, is the first part of the Tanach. The Tanach is the primary source and foundation of Judaism. The Tanach is part : Genealogy; Drama; Lawmaking and Interpretation; Jurisprudence; Romance; War Battles; Power Dynamics; Place naming; Object Referencing; Chronology; Prophecy; Allegory; Metaphor ; VIP’s; Filler and Wise Counsel. Weighing up the relevance of the different pieces should be left to very wise souls. The shore of history is littered with the ugly flotsam and jetsam resulting from the terrible decisions made by various people who thought they understood the true meaning of the good book. The Tanach is the most important book in the world. The 79,976 words of the Pentateuch assume primacy.

It's Ironic that the supposed chosen people squabble amongst themselves about who should defend their illegal occupation and settler enterprise, when Israeli settlements violate International Law and the Fourth Geneva Convention. Equally ironic is the number of American Armchair Zionists who offer dubious advice to Israel, but don't have the courage to move there and defend Israel.

is a person with no country; is a person with no future; is a person with no past.

Please provide your source of information that clearly states 70% of Tel Aviv residents of conscription age avoid the draft. I await your reply with the source of your information. Failure to respond makes you a liar. Have good day

They named various Kibutzim and towns out of Torah,even many of them being "comunists". Every Jew is ultimately very religious. Wearing black garments and doing business and arraging "clients"out of Torah does not give to certain "Jews"the monopoly of being Jews. If these black wearing Jews can't share what they know with all Jews, without ulterior interests,they must live as any other Israeli Jew,without privileges. I personaly consider their egotism a sin and a crime and I think that ANY BUSINESS comming out of Torah should be forbidden , and all Tzedakas received should be publicaly declared for everybody to know that that money is going to preserve sinagogues and gathering and everything needed to mantain Judaism but not to support the rich life of many rabbis. Rabbis should work as anybody else and should be forbidden to live and enrich out of Tzedakah,a Tzedakah that is given by sincere Jews to G-od and not to be used to give luxury lives to rabbis.

There are 2 countervailing forces working here. First: will Israel's security be enhanced or dimished, if thousands of Charedi become part of the system (IDF, natgural service, work force?). It one think to beef up dividions with black hatted recruits who wont assimilate, and anogther to train them to protect the govts interests, in essense survival. Assuming they can be trained and perform effectively, what is the real benefit? We know that they cost 20b shekels to have families and study 24-7. Can tht also include service? Then, is it worth the bother...separate facilities, barracks, residences for their families, benefits, etc.? How many divisions will be created..and what to do with them? Cn Charedi be trusted with a rifle AND can the Arab sector with its Nakba Day and other anti-Israel celebrations and memorials be trusted, to not knie a Jw in the back and kill or wound his fellow Muslm? On the other hand, are the 12,000 protestors the tip of the iceberg? Are they right morally? Should not every Israeli participate in the country? Egypt/Iran/Syria have over 2m troops and 1,000 planes and 10,000 tanks. With Hez/Hamas, they have over 100,000 rockets..from Kassams to Scuds to Shahabs. Giving perks to the IDF and voluneering Charedi might begin the process? But its really in education. When the rabbis tell their naive students that stuying the bible protects Israel, I am reminded of the WW2 Jews who were told to run to the synagogue to escape the Germn wrath. Israel shoudl get on with negotiating an end to thiis conflict..more important than drafting a few thousand who seem to be living in a bubble.

cleaning streets, or toilets, farming, driving, helping the ill, doing community service, you know, the things ordinary non elitist do daily, for a living. These aren't true Jews, they are parasites with a self given name, and administered vulgarly and with an exaggerated sense of importance.

Livini seems a better waitress than a politician. Interest usually accompanies 'principle.' No one seems interested in her.

Glad, we are on the same side in all that is important..The Shas party is obviously not above politics and my point was not about defending a political party...And while I agree with you about the necessity of the Orthodox community to share the burden of defense of the Nation, I don't know, how to solve the problem.Their life style has been the same for many decades, even prior to the establishment of the Jewish State...For better or for worse, they are Our People, the ones who are safeguarding our Judaism...Many Israelis don't understand, that when we expressing intolerance to our own, we are inviting hatred and antisemitism to ouselves...

been there. But do remember when the Haredim are drafted or do national service to keep them separate from those who would entice them to sin. The nation is protected by prayer warriors as well as shooting soldiers in the IDF. If all are caused to sin and fail in even trying to obey the Commandments that is a worse hazard for the nation than in the Haredim being separate but obeying HaShem's commands. The Jewish Messiah Yeshua of Nazareth said those who love him would obey His commandments. Raping Haredim in showers in gang rape attacks like happen in the US military without charges being filed against the rapists will result in greater judgments on the IDF for causing Haredim to be attacked. It is a position with God that is the issue. When I was attacked in the US Navy long ago with the misuse of authority by those who hated women officers and vowed destructions on them, the judgment by the Lord on the US Navy was the loss of half its ships in twenty years since I have covenants with the Lord which put me into a higher position that attackers are judged more harshly when I am attacked. An attack on me is an attack on HaShem and His Kingdom. Beware lest similar things happen to Haredim and the IDF finds it has attacked HaShem and His Kingdom and has to pay the price for that by HaShem's disfavor.

I agree with you David. Another very important fact about Livni is that she was & is not corrupt. She is Israeli just like we are & she has the full right to voice her concerns about our country;she has the right o protest aswell.

get out Saturday night and join the crowd !

The Jewish religion is based on the Talmud. Where the Talmud contradicts the Torah, the Talmud is binding. This is the religion which is by law the state religion of this country. You can't change the religion, the best you can do is create a new religion to suit yourself.

Those in the Yeshivas would do Military service, and give up the majority of their studies. Those who are not in Yeshivas would replace those Yeshiva students, refrain from any social activities, give up their out-of-marriage romances, their entertainment, and other non-halackic and anti-Torah activities. Equal burden for all!

I am so tired of hearing how many Tel Aviv youth dodge the draft. A week ago it was 34% and now suddenly it is 70%. So I did a little research. These facts will set the record straight - for you and everyone else. The statistics relate to 2011. 1. Of the Jewish population ( including the Haredim), 75% do army service. 25% do not. That is for Israel in general. 2. The specific statistics for Tel Aviv is 67% who serve and 33% who do not. HOWEVER, this includes the lower socio-economic areas like South Tel Aviv, some of whom are not drafted because they are deemed unsuitable - borderline criminals, poor families etc. 3. The Haredim make up 16% of the total Jewish population eligible to serve. 14% of the 25% who don't serve, are Haredim. That means that of the secular Jews, the statistic drops to 11%. IT ALSO MEANS THAT ONLY 2% OF THE HAREDIM SERVE, ie only one in every 8 Haredim. With such damning statistics, it would be best if you shut up about others not serving, You have no right to point fingers. Your self-righteousness is sickening.

Why should the religious be the only ones to carry the burden of protecting over us? Let everyone learn Torah and we will have little need for an army.

I agree the Haredim should go in the army or do national service as well but first what about all the secular dodgers, I hear nothing about these lazy parasites. So once these seculars go in the army then you can put the Haredim in who at least are doing something for their country.

As a mother of a commander/commando in special forces of Nachal Hareidi, i can attest that the topic of Hareidim not serving is a LIE! The Nachal Hareidi units have among the HIGHEST ENROLLMENT WITH TREMENDOUS RESULTS FOR THE IDF! They are put in extremely dangerous situations and do great!! Furthermore, the IDF has broken it's promises to allow these guys to practice Judiasm without army interference of unnecessary things.-eg. making religious men listen to women singing and sometimes putting them in unnecessary positions. For example, my son was suddenly transferred to a place with girls and put in a position of being tempted by all sorts of bribes in order to get him to remain in the regular army! So, this issue is a ploy of POLITICIANS to once again put Hareidim in a bad light!! Let us not forget also the large amount of non observant draft dodgers! AND that MOSTLY NON OBSERVANT young people are more likely to leave Israel.

Best to get the official facts before you condemn and belittle a portion of your own people!!! Nachal Hareidi is packed! it has the largest enrollment in the army. AND because these guys come from religious homes, they tend to make better soldiers. They are brought up with discipline, a much needed quality for the army. These guys can be relied on for many dangerous missions!! My COMMANDER SON told me that MANY non religious soldiers are problematic because of their "hefker" upbringing! AND FURTHER, most Hareidi men WORK AND PAY TAXES JUST LIKE YOU! Yeshivas are NOT GETTING SPECIAL FUNDING! (aren't we lucky as a Jewish State to be so proud not to support scholars-like other religious willingly do! Kind of puts a damper on being a light unto the nations when we don't know what our Judiasm means!) And politicians also have a great excuse NOT TO PROVIDE SUFFICIENT FUNDING to small children who are in Haredi schools! Instead, the parents provide the extra funding, many living in poverty as a result. It would be nice if YOU would start caring about that!

Mindless militarism masquerading as "social justice". Disgusting.

Jews, 2. The Ultra Orthodox Jews should not pay for the problem that is created by the left wing. The left wing gave land and guns to Arabs, created a war in Israel that did not exist before, and compromised security of Jews. They should fix their own mess themselves.

The "sabra and shatilla" protests had only 40000 participants. The only protests with more than 400000 participants were against the ethnic cleansing of Gush Katif by the Sharon gang and against Barak's demand to give Assad the Golan.

That corrupt Leftist politicians go Haredi baiting to overthrow Netanyahu is not surprising. No less surprising will be how they will give the Haredim bribes to seize power. What is surprising is that normal Israelis are running to these protests like unthinking sheep, demanding Haredi draft. Do any of the sheep have a suggestion where the money will come to draft the Haredim? Why do the sheep ignore the fact that the IDF has too many soldiers and doesn't need masses of Haredim? Do the sheep care that massive drafting of Haredim will damage the IDF ability to fight? This is how nations end, when the people stop thinking and turn on each other for no reason.