Jewish Scene
State to ban women's exclusion from bus ads
Aviel Magnezi
Published: 19.07.12, 14:26
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37 Talkbacks for this article
1. Cannot serve two masters
Ortho Guy ,   Jerusalem, Israel   (07.19.12)
An Orthodox man is severely prohibited from looking at attractive pictures of women. If the law forces such pictures to be brought into their neighborhood then how are they to obey religious law? (Hint: religious law is MUCH MORE important to them than state law.)
2. Pluralism not Democratic
Larry ,   Los Angeles   (07.19.12)
It is easy to spout dogma, but face it kid, Jerusalem is religious and the religious is definitely the majority and the majority, remember how democracy works, do not want women. So now we hear this bull about Pluralism when calls for Democracy fall on deaf ears. Don't live in Mecca if you don't like pilgrimages and don't live in Jerusalem if you don't like religion. On the other hand, realize that even non religious should be SENSITIVE to religious who don't like women in ads. Tel Aviv is not religious; they have ads with women, Jerusalem is religious they don't want this. Understand and you might grow up to become intelligent instead of using dogma for brain fodder.
3. I remember when there were no ads
ma nishma ,   modiin   (07.19.12)
and no one complained. Just the opposite, who needs ads? If it ain't broke don't fix it, if you don't need it, don't buy it. Let's have an ad free Israel like it was in the sixties.
4. haredim
rachel ,   haifa   (07.19.12)
im not haredi but in this area im starting to think they have a point. the article says that in the petititon "they claimed that the phenomenon is a grave offence against human dignity..." to be quite honest i dont think that many ads nowadays featuring women for their s.ex appeal is too dignifying. in fact i think it exploits women. for some reason people nowadays interpret "exclusion of women" (meaning women not being splashed all over billboards half naked) as insulting to women but i think it is regal and dignified.
5. That's a new one
israel israeli ,   tel aviv   (07.19.12)
The court decided that there is a new right "freedom of advertisement" that supersedes the old right "to prevent your children from seeing how women are denigrated and objectified". I guess advertisers have more money to grease the right palms.
6. #1 Utter Rubbish
Haim ,   Israel   (07.19.12)
Firstly there is no prohibition to look at a picture of a woman attractive or otherwise,other than the fences around fences around fences that the ever growing Taliban Haredim build for themselves. Its sad when the reason for not using this type of advertizing is fear of vandalism by the Ultra Religious, sad, very sad. These people who claim to be so godly house among them thugs and criminals.
7. 4 ,...
snag ,   USA   (07.19.12)
Don't tell me that they are concern about woman's interest - Their daily morning prayer: "thank G-d I was not born a slave, a Gentile, or a woman" exposes their real face ,...
8. Priorities ,...
snag ,   USA   (07.19.12)
State should provide safety for woman on the bus first ,...
9. Rachel # 4
HS ,   Brooklyn   (07.19.12)
I am a chareidi Rabbi and I thank you for being honest. You are so right that adds using women's appeal is the most degrading offence against women... And the jewish law is not just to protect men but to protect the concept in Judaism that the true Honor of A Women is her modesty and not exploiting her looks !
10. Right on Rachel
jackc ,   haifa   (07.19.12)
You are starting to get it. It is really the religious who love, cherish and respect women. It is the western world that treats them as sex objects and very little more.
11. Ads pros and cons
Jim   (07.19.12)
Every time I enter T-A from Route No 1 there's a huge poster of Lubavitch Rabbi staring at me, and I have to say - this is not exactly a symbol of mostly secular city. Does it need to be here rather than in Bnei-Brak? Or is it an attempt of religious people to show us the secular ones, the way? But we haven't asked for it, did we? The poor religious community pays a lot of money for displaying this poster, and what for? Don't they have needy people? On the other hand posters of scantily-clad Bar Rafaeli are not exactly a good thing in Mea Sharim - and there's not a single one there. But there're fine for Tel-Aviv and non-religious part of Jerusalem, and finally - haredim is still a minority in this country and they can't impose their traditions or - in this case - fears - upon the secular citizens.
12. More serious right "violations"
.   (07.19.12)
I also have noticed that 1) all Egged drivers are men, 2) all taxi drivers in Jerusalem are men except for the one which lives in my apartment building, as well as 3) And The Worst Violation of human rights and dignity: when I went to the bathroom on Egged central bus station I have discovered that only men may enter the room with "M" and only women may enter the room with "W"! It is a very heavy discrimination since (!) in the men rest room there are very unique toilets (hanging on the wall so that men don't have to bother themselves and wait for the cabin) but the women cannot have this luxury at all! The High Court should deal with this violation immediately since they have anyway nothing to do! Meanwhile I'll try to report some more important nonsense! Big boys and girls in judges' robes will have something to do in trenches of Democracy Protection.
13.  Secular coercion in the Holy City! !
ORA ,   JERUSALEM   (07.19.12)
Who will pay the bus company for their losses due to the many Haredi men,who will stop taking buses?
14. #1, how are they to obey religious law?
a SANE ortho guy ,   nyc   (07.19.12)
BY NOT LOOKING! i am also orthodox and live in nyc. here, there are immodest ads everywhere. i've never heard of a single rabbi petition the city to remove such ads (nor should they!). stop trying to coerce others and just worry about yourself (i.e. close your eyes)!
15. #12 is correct and deserving of a
ma nishma ,   modiin   (07.19.12)
This lady is obviously way ahead of the game. I think Ynet should give her a soap box to stand on to present her views. Kol Ha Kavod to the name less lady for bringing up serious discrimination violations.
16. #14
Joe ,   Isarel   (07.20.12)
Just wondering how you know that there are immodest ads everywhere in NYC if you truly are sane orthodox and NOT LOOKING. or is it impossible that when it's in your face you first see it and then choose not to look?
17. 13 , End to charedi coercision in OUR Capital !
Charles ,   Petach Tikva   (07.19.12)
Let them take bus 11 [ both feet ] and go from north to south . It's healthy , saves money and leaves more place for all the other Israelis
18. I don´t see women not being used in advertisements...
Keren ,   IL-BR   (07.20.12)
...as "women's exclusion ". This is another issue and has nothing to do with "women's exclusion ". It could even be understood as "women´s protection".
19. #14 Has a point.
Keren ,   IL-BR   (07.20.12)
20. being religous doesn't make you better!
Naftali ,   Seattle, WA   (07.20.12)
There's no justification for enforcing modesty and no where does it say in the Torah that women have to be modest to avoid being the center of attraction and this attraction is human nature and happens to everyone even in the Haredi communities there's nothing you can do to deter human attraction and that's when the Torah comes in as a guide for human interaction. If the man acts out wickedly to a woman based on attraction to her it's his fault, and if a woman acts out wickedly based on attraction it's her fault and as far as laws of Tzniut is concerned it has been distorted by Haredim, they use it not to maintain "strictness" of Torah but to impose it for their pursuit of power.
21. #17 - charles
Joe   (07.20.12)
Get a life you obvious leech on society. How is it that whenever I click on an article I always see a comment by you and it's always a hate spewed diatribe against haredim. How is it that you have so much time on your hands? You must be living off of government hand outs. Who pays for all your medical equipment your on? is it not yad sarah - a haredi orginzation? LEECH
22. Pictures of women in adverts
Ortho Guy ,   Ra'anana, Israel   (07.20.12)
The only answer my friend is DO NOT LOOK, AVERT YOUR EYES, take control of your urges and desires, then you will become a better Jew, leave the rest of us alone in our observance of everything created in the Almighty's image
23. get your head straightened out
(07.20.12)
stop with the bs what about the modesty of men, hm? ever occur to you that modesty should apply to everyone?
24. Joe , before barking , try to know
Charles ,   Petach Tikva   (07.20.12)
a] i do NOT receive any agora from governement b] i don't need Yad Sarah's equipement , but i send them cheques as many other seculars do c] you must have much free time to read all talk backs . Do you live on governement money ? And you ? poor guy .
25. Advertising standards
Sherlock Holmes ,   London England   (07.20.12)
Here in London one can complain to the Advertising Standards dept. Many objections are by women to adverts that degrade women to sell products. You cannot have 'hefkerus' in advertising. Other objections have involved bus adverts for Jews for Jesus and adverts for sexual products. The public must have a right to object, even in a 'pluralistic' Jerusalem.
26. #25 I agree.
Keren ,   IL-BR   (07.20.12)
Cultures flourish spontaniously,and a leftist " high court"does not have the right to interfere in such processes with their dogmas. This,ONCE AGAIN,is not a " high court of Israel´s"business and ONCE AGAIN they are trying to wrongly meddle in.
27. Many ads are degrading
Max Schadenfreude ,   Kerguelen   (07.20.12)
Despite being entirely secular and despite being male, I can still agree that there are a lot of ads which are indeed degrading to women.
28. #6, Haim
Professor Z ,   Jerusalem   (07.20.12)
Excuse me, where are you getting your information from? What do you consider the Jewish code of law? Shulchan Aruch, the generally accepted code of law, culling from the Talmud, leaves no room for doubt about the prohibition of looking at immodestly dressed women, and, if the gazing is with intent to enjoy some "eye candy," even at modestly dressed women. And if you do not subscribe to Shulchan Aruch, then what guides your life? Why stop there? In fact, maybe the Torah itself is not infallible; maybe some mistakes crept into the text. Where do you draw the line?
29. #7, snag
Professor Z ,   Jerusalem   (07.20.12)
I'm sorry to see that you judged before investigating. If you would deal with the issue intellectually honestly and with an open mind, you would find satisfying explanations. For example, men thank God for creating them with more obligations than women. Why? Men are naturally more aggressive than women. (Check out the percentage of prison inmates that are men, and then get back to me?) To temper this, God gave them more obligations to spend their time on and to help them elevate themselves. Women, who are naturally more spiritual, need less Mitzvot to keep them in check, and have more internal roles.
30. To all talkbackers
Luiz F Haddad ,   Niteroi, Brazil   (07.21.12)
As a Christian Democrat, true friend of Israel and of the suffered but strong Jewish people, I dare to write about this issue. I deplore very much such comments that support discriminations against women. It looks like racism, into U.S.A, against black people, during past times. Men and women have equal rights and duties, with few exceptions because of biological differences. Do you want to act like Iranian or Saudi Arabian Islamic fundamentalists? I don't think it so. State and Religion can't be confounded. Israeli ladies have fought, in several wars, to defend the nation. Did you forget it? I don't think it either. Warm salutes from distant South America.
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