Jewish Scene
Merkel: Germany will become laughingstock over circumcision ban
AFP
Published: 17.07.12, 14:57
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31. Brit or bris?
Bertram ,   London, UK   (07.17.12)
Well, the age of chivalry may well have passed but thank goodness the age of pedantry is still with us.
32. #30 ArieR
German citizen   (07.17.12)
Well, I guess there's no need to comment on "cutting nails and haircuts". Concerning the other examples you mentioned, yes, they violate one's physical integrity, if done against one's will. It's not allowed to painfully pull out the hair of others (if that's what you meant). Tattoos and piercings are categorical not allowed until the age of 16, even if the parents would agree. Once you're 18, you can do what ever you want. Circumcision is no problem as long as it's your own free will. The question is, are parents allowed to make this decision for their children. Unfortunately there's no law that regulates the situation at the moment and the constitution can be interpreted in either this or that way.
33. The whole issue is staged by the powers that be
Rich ,   Toronto, Canada   (07.17.12)
to make Merkel look good. It's all politics and we should not take this stuff seriously.
34. #27, Jew with Cojones
Professor Z ,   Jerusalem   (07.17.12)
The dot is called a "dagesh." I believe that you meant to say that the word Brit/Bris does not have a dagesh in the Tav. If it had a dagesh, it would universally be pronounced Brit. P.S. The group of letters is referred to as "Beged Kefet" - an acronym for Bet, Gimmel, Dalet, Kaf, Peh, Taf.
35. #6, DC
Professor Z ,   Jerusalem   (07.17.12)
What is the problem with the tense? "Laughingstock" is a noun.
36. #22, DavidR
Professor Z ,   Jerusalem   (07.17.12)
And why are you so quick to assume that the letter "Tav" without a dagesh is pronounced as a "t" sound in Biblical Hebrew? Historically, many communities of Hebrew-speakers differentiated between the six letters, Bet, Gimmel, Dalet, Kaf, Peh, and Tav with versus without a dagesh.
37. 21 ,...
snag ,   USA   (07.17.12)
If someone allowed you to stay under his roof don't re-arrange his furniture and force your customs upon him. Work hard, contribute instead of schnorring, learn his language and blend in otherwise get ready to relocate to another planet because you're done here ,...
38. 31. Brit or bris? ,...
snag ,   USA   (07.17.12)
Who the hell cares, read the darn headline, focus on the content and try to address it instead of getting involved in an exchange with a hasbara pinhead's distraction post. Gosh ,...
39. #24 Tim
German citizen   (07.17.12)
It is very unlikely that circumcision will be banned in Germany. The compromise will probably be that circumcision is allowed at any age, but only, as you wrote, under strict medical supervision, anaesthesia etc. Not everybody will be entirely happy about that, but it's a compromise that most people can live with.
40. Prevent another Holocaust
Frederick Rhodes ,   USA,Mexico   (07.17.12)
Israel, the Promised Land, should be the only country allowed to practice the Coven law of infant prepuce excision terrorism. Help confine this rite to the Chozen Race. Christian and Islamic nations have no rights to use this Jewish Rite. It is against the laws of Judaism as it is only meant for the Jews, their slaves and animals.
41. What about ear piercing??
Annie ,   Tel Aviv   (07.17.12)
Male circumcision has been done to over a BILLION people over the last 2000 years. My sons were cirucumsized by a doctor /rabbi and there was zero pain involved - they didnt cry for a second. Plus, it's HYGENIC. It helps prevent infections, the spread of diseases and AIDS. Not to mention that it just looks better. It's CRAZY not to circumsize in this day and age. So now is Germany gonna criminilize paretns getting their children's ears pierced before 18?
42. at German Citizen
Gabriel ,   Leiden, Netherlands   (07.17.12)
You have made some extraordinarily good points. I am Jewish and should I ever be graced with a little boy, any person who takes a knife to my child had better be a licensed MD. It's a matter of principle: I do not care how much experience this or that Mohel has with performing the procedure. As long as he's not a doctor as well, he wont be touching my kid.
43. @34 thanks
#27   (07.17.12)
44. #39, German citizen
Professor Z ,   Jerusalem   (07.17.12)
Actually, anesthetization of an infant significantly raises operative risks.
45. #40, Frederick Rhodes
Professor Z ,   Jerusalem   (07.17.12)
I must say, I had a good chuckle when I got to the last line of your post. I have absolutely no clue where you got the idea that Jews circumcise their animals!
46. Some points are good, TB 32, but:
ArieR ,   Ashkelon, Israel   (07.17.12)
the question(s) are still there, namely, if practices such as tattoo and piercing are considered, a priori, violent and irreversible enough to impair the physical integrity of human beings, why is it that they are not completely forbidden (regarded as criminal deed) regardless of age. Don't you think that it is strange that when one is 16 years+1 day of age she/he have the legal permission/right to mutilate their body?
47. germany's circumse
Rogelio E Latorilla ,   Davao city. philippi   (07.18.12)
nazism all over again
48. god abhor human sacrifices
ygalg ,   isreal   (07.18.12)
yet making male infants to go through a surgery, which might cause him harm or in some cases even death, due to failed procedure, that's placing a human being on an altar. doing so, in behalf of god. what a contradictory god you follow please don't excuse, its about hygiene. its about religion. an eight days infant to be toyed with a scalpel not from medical purpose, but for religion. a religion which is groundless, baseless, no evidence whatsoever. based on fibs and ill fantasies of the past generations and sadly continue till this day.
49. To 42 Gabriel
Susan ,   Kfar Saba   (07.18.12)
Here in Israel you can find doctors who are also qualified mohels. But dont think that this is something every doctor can do. I heard that in the US where many non-Jewish babies are circumcized before they leave the hospital at about 2 days old, they show a resident(doctor in training) how to do one and then say, ok, now you do it. No wonder that Muslim kid in Cologne was injured. If you have an expectation that your son will marry a Jewish girl, if he is not circumcized he will not be able to be married in a Jewish ceremony, nor will he be allowed to be called to the Torah,which means no bar mitzvah. We have a belief that not being circumcized might cause an early death. Since the obligation is on the father, it would be on your head. So think seriously if you ever have a son. I have been to may brit milahs. I have never seen one infant harmed. My own son cried a little then he was fine. Healed up in a few days. Circumcision is a badge of honor for Jewish guys.
50. To #11, #21 is right
Susan ,   Kfar Saba   (07.18.12)
You probably dont know this, but our ancestors fought a bitter war against the Selucid Greeks for 27 years, who tried to stop them from circumcising their sons(you can find the story in the first book of Macabbees on the internet). We fought the Greeks, we fought the Romans, and if need be we will fight the Germans. No one will stop Jews from keeping this divine commandment. But I think, as shown my Anglea Merkel, cooler heads will prevail in Germany as they did in San Francisco.
51. Circ
Shameless ,   US   (07.18.12)
Mutilation and a violation. Every time I hear a baby boy is born my heart cries for the harm the parents will make happen and I wish that child could have been born a girl.
52. Bad assed Jew . No thanks needed
Charles ,   Petach Tikva   (07.18.12)
from you . Compliments and so are worth only if they come from worthy persons , in your case not worthy at all [ see Opinion , Europe united ....]
53. To all those trying to educate me
Sagi   (07.18.12)
I have a very good education thank you. Both English and Hebrew are mother tongues. Etymology is my pastime. I simply detest anything redolent of the disgusting Diaspora of Eastern Europe, clothes,recipies habits and pronunciation. All contributed to the animosity towards us in the past and I firmly believe that we should divest ourselves of such bad habits.
54. #42 Gabriel
Larry   (07.18.12)
Good for you. Your son will thank you for it .
55. #21 the exact opposite
ygalg ,   israel   (07.18.12)
divine law an extraordinary claim requires extraordinary evidence. when you able to provide that, then you have a point. until then, you stuck with constitutional law as your prime priority. muslims have their divine laws christians have theirs and so on and every each gonna claim "Constitutional law ends when it collides with the Divine Law" where's your logic?
56. Gabriel , 42 TRY # 2
Charles ,   Petach Tikva   (07.18.12)
And wat if : Daddy why didn't you make me a Jew ? I , certainly a secular and atheist , would have done it , but i'm Jewish , and not only because of my mother ZL .
57. #23 charles
solomon ,   bklyn   (07.18.12)
The word circumcision is used in the ynet page I open, not bris nor brit. Ynets is in English. Both are recognized by English speakers, but 'bris' may be more common and more easily understandable. Ynet does not write Yerushalaim, but Jerusalem.
58. #2's clarification
iselin ,   Oslo, Norway   (07.18.12)
Sounds proper and correct, with the permission of the owner of said foreskin.
59. To #9 Sorry but...
iselin ,   Oslo, Norway   (07.18.12)
RE your last paragraph: Says who? I cannot tell you how many American and Jewish and even Israeli girls love the "heathen" Scandinavian men!
60. circumcision and AIDS
iselin ,   Oslo, Norway   (07.18.12)
The overwhelming majority of AIDS victims in the US are/have been circumcised. For all the touting of its positive role in the prevention of AIDS, it was not enough to prevent the death of most of them. In Africa, where AIDS is the result of heterosexual sex, there must be different mechanisms at work for it to help.
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