1. it's the limud torah that keeps the world running
2. torah only torah
3. more havganot will be happening
what a mess
4. The Haredim who should be exempted from the IDF
are those whose DNA is Cohanan or Levitical Priesthood DNA.
5. Is my secular son eligible for the same exemption?
6. Draft & Haradim.
Come on !! Please lets be real Israelis dont understand the Haredim 1st their not one united group,they consist of many families/tribes/clans each with its own chief/rabbi that follows a line or succession,to propose that Israel could absorb these people into the IDF as it is at this momment,would be like trying to convince all that the moon is actually the sun.To actually draft the Haradim youd have to completely start a seperate IDF,with no females,diet,allow for prayer times,shabbos.etc,
An ideal cant come from humans for which of us are ideal,so get real and stop wasting time.
Shalom Rav ! and forget what cant be had.
8. bibi that"s not the army service age listed in the Torah!
9. first of all
According to the Torah, the minimum age for military service is 20 (Num. 1:3, and Rashi and Naḥmanides ad loc.). The Torah does not expressly establish a maximum age. Some hold that the maximum age for military service is 60 (Sforno, Num. 1:45), while others suggest that it was 40 (according to certain versions of Sif. Deut., ed. Finkelstein, 197).
The book of Deuteronomy provides guidelines for exemption from military service. The Torah (Deut. 20) provides that, before venturing into battle, the priest–referred to in the Mishnah as the "Anointed for Battle" (Sot. 8:1) – must speak to the people and encourage them so that they not fear the enemy and to place their trust in God, as the Torah expressly forbids fear of the enemy in war (Maim., Sefer ha-Mitzvot, negative precept 58; Sefer ha-Ḥinnukh, 525). Following the priest's speech, the officers address the people and exempt the following four categories of people: (a) one who has built a home and not dedicated it; (b) one who has planted a vineyard but not yet enjoyed its fruit (the fruit can only be used after the fourth year); (c) one who has betrothed a woman but not yet married her (see *Marriage); (d) one who is afraid and fainthearted, "lest he cause his comrades to be afraid." Later sources explain the application of these exemptions in practice. Thus, prior to the battle with the Midianites, God commands Gideon to tell the fearful to return home; more than one third of the force leaves (Judges 7:3). The Book of Maccabees (I Maccabees 3:55) relates that soldiers were exempted for the same reasons. There is some disagreement among the tannaim regarding the nature of the fear that exempts a person from going to war (Mish. Sot. 8:5; Sot. 44a). In Rabbi Akiva's view, this alludes to fear of war. According to the mishnaic citation of R. Akiva, his concern was fear of the dangers of war, whereas according to the Tosefta (Sot. 7:24), R. Akiva's concern was not the fear of war per se, but rather the fear that his sense of mercy would affect his ability to fight, and even a stony and mighty warrior was commanded to return home in the event of his feelings of mercy being likely to impair his ability to fight. According to R. Yose the Galilean, this exemption also refers to a person who is fearful because he knows himself to be a sinner, his feelings of guilt leading him to fear that he will be punished for his sins by death in battle. Although these four categories of people are exempted from battle, they are commanded to contribute to the war effort by providing food and water for the troops, and by repairing the roads (Mish., Sot. 8; Yad, Melakhim 7:9).
W. Turner ,
All these exemptions apply exclusively to a discretionary war; in the case of an obligatory war, "all go forth, even the bridegroom out of his chamber and the bride from her bridal pavilion" (Mish., Sot. 8:8).
The Israel Supreme Court discussed these issues at length in its decision in the Schein case (HC 734/83 Shein v. Minister of Defense, 38 (III) PD 393, per M. Elon). The petitioner in that case was a reserve soldier who refused a call-up order to serve in southern Lebanon, on grounds of conscience. He argued that he opposed the Israeli army's presence in Lebanon, and believed that presence to be illegal. The petitioner had already been tried for a previous refusal, and the petition related to a new call-up order and to the sentence that he had served. In denying the petition, Justice Elon surveyed philosophical and legal positions accepted by various states in regard to conscientious objection, and addressed the distinction between general conscientious objection and selective conscientious objection, that only relates to a specific type of military service. Justice Elon went on to examine the view of Jewish law. "In principle, the issue before us was addressed by Jewish law in its earliest days, as a matter related to the subject of exemption from the obligation of military service" (p. 403). After reviewing the above-mentioned sources and the opinions expressed by the tannaim, he concluded: "The foregoing quotations reflect the various opinions in Jewish law concerning an issue essentially comparable to the question of exemption from military service for reasons of conscience. The reasons for exemption are general and inclusive, and they concern the character of the person and his attitude to violence. They are not selective. They do not pertain to a particular time and place, and they are not based on ideological-social outlooks. Finally, even the general and inclusive reasons are applicable only to a "discretionary" war, but not to an obligatory war in a time of emergency (p. 405).
W. Turner ,
11. all of which is to say Bibi is out of line with age 26
and #4 has absolutely no idea what she is talking about
W. Turner ,
12. This is a joke, Right?
Bibi needs to get some B@lls and do the right thing!
Tel Aviv, Israel
13. only so many haredi
bibi who now needs the haredi vote erred on not setting a lower age say 22 because it permits a sector of israeli society to be physically defenceless and a magnet for antisemitism. after the holocaust, it is almost criminal to raise israeli youth who have no self defense skills and torah does not protest such individuals.
Bibi findsit hard to make any major decision though he is thebest leader right now and kadima, labour, shas and lapid cannot compete. What it does mean is he does not have the inner courage to attack iran or to hit syrian chemical weapons. Don't expect it ever as he is by himself incapable of such a decision. Smnall stuff he is ok.
14. 64 gazillion # question: will "suckers" refuse???
Tsedek is a word not found in Haredi Bible
Thinking Jew ,
15. Sold us out for power
4 months of meaningless service and 6000 NIS per month for every Haredi. So, as usual, the middle class sucker pays the price. How can all you people who voted for this megalomaniac trust this guy?
He, and you, who voted for him are a disgrace!
16. So the Haredi get special treatment again
and it is the children of normal decent Israelis who will have to take up the slack again.
Netanyahu has betrayed the Israeli taxpayer in his quest to keep his name on the door of the Prime Minister's Office, at any cost.
17. Hope Bibi finds himself without a seat after elections.
I know I won't be voting Likud.
Tova M. ,
18. Some objections
Service is a personal obligation and not an institutional one, therefore sanctions and benefits should be applied to the individual and not to yeshivot or local authorities.
The obligation to serve the country is not something that differs according to sector. All Israelis should be treated the same. Israel Arabs and Hareidim should be treated as all other citizens in this regard.
Setting a maximum age of 26 is too old it should be younger. Plesner required Hareidim to start service by age 23 (declare by age 22). Setting the age to 24 would be about as far as it should be pushed.
19. When Iran start lobing those bombs I have a very simple
solution for the Heredim who dont want to protect the country.
Take your Siddur along with your Gemurah and go into your sealed room.
Then sit on the floor, spread your legs, bend over and kiss your ass goodbye.
That will be the last ass kissing you will ever do.
You dont want to help protect the country then I have no pity for you in the least.
No money for you to sit around scratch your ass, burp your cholent and pull on your itchy balls all day long.
What I dont get is why any Jewish girl would want to marry these losers unless thats what they saw their Fathers do all day long...NOTHING.
20. 18 years old is one thing,26 is another
At 18 years old one is more shapeable and idealistic and at 26 is the beggining of maturity .
I think that even in a slowlier path(which I don´t agree to be that slowly),every boy should be drafted at 18.
I think however that a thorough restructuration in Army should happen,adapting it to the reality of today and not the one of 60 years ago.
21. get them while young
...and make real men of them...Bibi playing more dumb games at the expense of the nation. If the super religious want a country to live in where they can carry on with their beliefs, then they must fight to keep that nation alive. If Israel falls, they will not be allowed to do anything but migrate
22. Bibi misses the demostrations
Bibi thinks that demonstrations=democracy, but demos are only a "building block". He wants demonstrations so he can say what a great democracy he runs.
Also, as long as citypass owns Jerusalem, there can be no large demonstrations at the historical Zion Square.
The draft age for all should be 20. Anyone who want to volunteer should be able to volunteer earlier.
Students can have 1-2 years of university or earn money for university, get on with their lives, and then go to the army. By putting money away at 18, the money starts to earn interest toward retirement.
23. No one needs old soldiers
The army needs, young, strong, impressible soldiers that will serve the country for a small stipend.
The Army does not need old, flabby men who have families and do not know if their allegiance is to their rabbi or to the commanders and the country. They will also expect large salaries to support their already large families.
This is not a solution, it is further complicating the problem and robbing the treasury.
24. Bibi is a sell out.
Sold out for power. Sucks to be you, Bibi.
25. Bibi be fair
please change the law a bit more.
Double the taxes of those who work and serve and exempt all those who bleed us dry from any obligation.
Because don't forget only with the prayer of those we will ensure the safety of Israel.
26. to 18
everyone is equal, the oportunity to choose to learn Tora is there for everyone, whoever thinks it is easy, please... no yeshiva has ever refused anyone.
27. Man has lost is mind
Bibi seems not to realize history is behind us not in front of us. This man will go down in history, this history as the most irrational, cowtowing, lack of foresight humanoid of all time. 26yrs. for a haredi is like dogs years, a 26 year old haredi what the hell can you teach one after a data overload of Torah. It's like Bibi is under a spell and these moves will have the state and Israelis blaming even the bad weather on him.
28. Oxymoron - Mr Regev
Religious Freedom and Equality. I do not know what religion you are practicing, BUT In the Jewish religion you have a Torah. We try hard to live by the Torah giving to us on Mt Sinai 3325 years ago. In your Religion, since it is made up, as the "FEEL RELIGION", you can have Freedoms & Equality. Knock yourself out. Who are you to call us anti Zionists?? Oh! I forgot, only people like you can "incite" "Slander" and get away with it. I forgot, you have the freedom & Equality thing.
dr harry ,
29. SEND ALL MOFOS TO ARMY AT 18
ESPECIALLY Haredim ( what makes them so special ???) and BIBI is a waste of space.
DA URBAN POET ,
SAFED OPERA HOUSE
30. I can't believe this
Six thousand? SIX THOUSAND?! What is that, and tenth of the eligable Orthodox population at the appropriate age? And why 26? This is an outrage.
The first step will be to stop founding their yeshivas, since there's no sense in that!