News
Hazing suspects: We beat commanders too, it's common practice
Yoav Zitun
Published: 05.08.12, 15:42
Comment Comment
Print comment Print comment
Back to article
29 Talkbacks for this article
1. Shouldering the National Burden
Mark   (08.05.12)
Wow, those 8 guys did a great job of shouldering the national burden. It makes me wonder just how much of this kind of burden the army will subject haredi recruits to.
2. I agree with the victim's mother!
A Jerusalemite ,   Jerusalem, Israel   (08.05.12)
3. Solution
Boaz ,   Israel   (08.05.12)
Don't touch the stick! Hazing is also a part of the army. Try as they might they will never get rid of it!
4. Hazing in the Israeli Army !!
miri ,   israel   (08.05.12)
I thought "hazing" occurred in college fraternities (in the U.S.) My heartfelt sympathy to this young soldier and his family.
5. 8 against 1?....COWARDS.
ORA ,   JERUSALEM   (08.05.12)
6. forget PAZAM
Ethan ,   Eilat   (08.05.12)
From the day you are drafted until the day of your release you serve. More is expected of experienced soldiers, not less.
7. What a bunch of infantile morons
INETFRAUD ,   US/IL   (08.05.12)
Those punks must have 'man' issues to be unable to control themselves during a simple 'hazing' issue. What a bunch of morons. Who wants idiots like these guys on the street: they'd probably lead to horrendous acts of cruelty anyhow. Arrest them, try them and chuck their touchases in a civilian prison. Dishonorable Discharge is a must with such punks. Shame on them. Rafuah Shalema for the soldier.
8. The IDF
Abe   (08.05.12)
Are G-d fearing haredim suppose to join such an immorally corrupt army?
9. 8 Yeah no secular girls to spit on in Kfir Brigade
Charles   (08.05.12)
How can they possibly join?
10. Can G-d fearing haredim join such an immorally corrupt army?
(08.05.12)
11. Commonplace in the Russian military
Sarah B (Yes its me)   (08.05.12)
Unsurprising that Hazing has now become rife in the IDF as well. What happens when you allow millions to settle without the core values of Judaism because you are desperate to make up the numbers
12. What part of "forbidden" don't you understand?
Avi   (08.05.12)
The stick is FORBIDDEN, and he touched it. It's not the "we'd rather it be left alone" stick or the "looking at it is fine" stick. No, it's the "forbidden" stick and you let someone touch it with no consequences the next thing you know is the army will fall apart with every soldier only doing what he feels like doing. Ranks will disappear and no one can give or follow orders. That's the way it digresses: first touch the forbidden stick, then complete anarchy in the ranks. That's how the Roman empire finally fell, you know.
13. deterioration
Larry ,   Los Angeles   (08.05.12)
it is shameful to all who take pride in the IDF to read such a report. instead of staying with your wounded buddy, they make their buddy wounded. This seems the latest in secular Israelis borrowing from American TV. Back to Ben Gurion's idealism or go back to Poland's ghettos!!
14. Do they now understand why the haredi want to avoid service?
Shalom Halan ,   Kfar   (08.05.12)
Imagine the beatings and harrasing they would face.
15. Longer term consequence
Rhonda ,   Chicago, USA   (08.05.12)
I won't repeat what the Talk Backs have already said about hazing. What hasn't been said is that the victimized soldier suffered a ruptured spleen. What this probably means is that he won't be able to return to a combat unit because the spleen is such a vital organ to defend against infection and process a human being's red blood cells. He can live without his spleen although that's not ideal for it puts him at risk for certain problems. But I can't imagine the IDF Medical deeming him combat ready. Maybe the individuals who participated in this should have to sit down and after considering the morality of their behavior also consider that he'll be one comrade unable to have their backs going house to house in some operation.
16. what really happened
im from this unit   (08.05.12)
im tired of the media talking tihs incident up. It was just guys mucking around in good spirit, including the so called "victim". The victim was smiling and jokingly provoked the so called "beaters". We are all friends. This is complete BS. HOW DARE YOU TALK ILL OF THESE SOLDIERS WHO HAPPEN TO BE MY FRIENDS WHO HAVE BEEN PUTTING THEIR LIVES ON THE LINE FOR 2 AND A HALF YEARS!!!!!! events as such happen all the time.
17. this story disgusts me
Ilana   (08.05.12)
violence is not to be tolerated at all. I am sick that they can beat up a soldier and call it a jest. G-d forbid if it were my son receiving, I would see red and would go to any length to ensure the highest possible punishment. If even worse, I would hear that my son were a suspect, I would not know where to bury myself in shame. I cannot even bear to think of him ding such a crime.
18. @ 12, Avi
Philos ,   Herzeliya   (08.05.12)
Are you smoking crack? This is not a "forbidden stick" as laid down by the Matkal in army law you fool! This is just some nonsense crap created by the pazamikim and which the officers turn a blind eye because they think it builds the spirit! If anything hazing undermines the rules based system of the army because it is AGAINST standing orders of the IDF!!!
19. Hitting commanders?
Raphael ,   Netanya   (08.05.12)
In any army in the world, the suspects end up in fortress arrest. Time to adjust to standards.
20. showcase the beaters to warn the public
bernard ross   (08.05.12)
these animals cannot be jews, they must be jailed and discharged
21. @16 moron then why the hell was he send to the hospital?
Al   (08.05.12)
You and your ilk should never ever be in an army. These louts should be tried and send to prison for up to 20 years. Try this shit in the USA army..You'll be spitting your teeth before you'd finish a sentence.
22. # Avi.Forbidden stick,like the forbidden apple
J.K. ,   Brooklyn USA   (08.05.12)
the poor soldier defied the command of the 8 little gods,i hope the injured soldier will fully recover, the 8 gods will have to spend some time in paradise,paradise 4 or paradise 6,over there they will have to respect the stick of the older inmates.
23. this is no reason to avoid service
Rachelle ,   israe   (08.05.12)
For all those advocating Haredim avoid service, this is the reason to join and stop this kind of thing happening. Bring your moral outlook with you and raise the consciousness of a falling nation.
24. Another Way That Israel Self-destructs.
(08.05.12)
25. Fraternity initiation
Akiva ,   NYC   (08.05.12)
This disaster sounds like a college fraternity initiation that went tragically wrong. Boys will be boys and soldiers are proud of their strength, but this was over the top and looks criminal to me as an outsider. They should try boxing, one against one, not ten against one.
26. These soldiers are scapegoats
David ,   Shiloh Israel   (08.05.12)
If this was just a media circus, then there might be some light entertainment in the ridiculous attempts to turn our IDF into an army of pussies. However, there are those who actually wish to see our IDF become a weak entity. I've met some of these detainees and know that they are all good friends, including the victim. Yes, there was damage done due to one of the soldiers getting too high spirited, but there was absolutely no intention to cause bodily harm. If we are going to see collective punishment then let's also punish ourselves too, as those of us currently not serving, need to rely on a strong IDF. Every officer in the IDF knows that hazing goes on, and it's nearly always done in good spirits. These fine soldiers are NOT criminals. The real criminals are those wanting to find any excuse to attack our IDF! I say release them and give a stern warning to ensure that they can use more self-control next time, and yes there should be a next time! Sarah B - Our IDF is not the Russian Army.
27. to #26 David in Shiloh
Bluegrass Picker ,   Afula   (08.06.12)
broken ribs and loss of spleen = lifetime pain, suffering, and loss of able-ness. But you're cool with that. It was all just fun. We shouldn't worry about it. Hey David, lend them your Tavor so next time they can just shoot the guy in the belly and save themselves a lot of time spent on raining individual blows.
28. very normal occurence
sam ,   los angeles   (08.06.12)
having served in the IDF , i can say that these things are far more common than is generally believed . There are two facts of life for IDF conscripts : boys get rough beating , girls lose their virginity . really nothing to worry about
29. "Jests" that maim
Retired U.S. officer ,   Minneapolis, USA   (08.06.12)
The behavior described is unacceptable both on military and human levels. Just because it may occur regularly does not make it right. I'm sure none of the 8 suspects intended permanent harm, but that is what they inflicted by rupturing the victim's spleen. Touching some tradition like a forbidden "seniory stick" might be worthy of extra duty -- or unpleasant duty such as cleaning latrines -- but not of being beaten by one's fellow soldiers. Eight men beating one man is not "hazing." It is assault -- shameful assault -- in this case influcting permanent bodily harm that could jeopardize the victim's future health. It should be prosecuted as assault inflicting permanent bodily harm, as it would be in the United States armed forces. No excuses.
Back to article