WHERE WAS MR HESS EDUCATED? MARRIAGE IN ISRAEL IS NOT RELIGIOUS ISSUE, BUT A TRIBAL-NATION-QUASI-RELIGIOUS ISSUE. WHILE IT MAY SEEM LUDICROUS IN A MODERN SENSE TO PERMIT THE ORTHODOX RABBINATE TO HAVE A MONOPOLY ONMARRIAGE, IT IS NOT ANTI-DEMOCRATIC AT ALL. WE ADHERE TO ANCIENT PRINCIPALS TO KEEP A UNIFIED TRIBE. IN A MODERN-WESTEN WORLD THIS MAY BE DIFFICULT TO UNDERTAND. BUT SURELY AS AN EDUCATED MAN RABBI HESS REALIZES THAT WE ARE AN ANCIENT PEOPLE TRYING TO BE UNIFIED IN A MODERN WORLD. IF ALTERNATE MARRIGAES ARE PERMITTED, WE WILL NO LONGER BE AN ANCIENT UNIFIED TRIBE. THIS IS MUCH PREFERED THAN THE SO-CALLED FREEDOM OF RELIGION THAT RABBI HESS PREFERS. WE WILL NO LONGER BE THE SAME PEOPLE.

About atheists and agnostics, whose rights aren't considered at all. I am agnostic, and agnosticism IS my religion. And so it is for many more people, including many famous scientists and humanitarians Israelis are so proud of. And yet we can't marry here, and this is not the only issue. For example, during the army service religious people are allowed to work less, just because they are religious and need to pray. And if I'd say what I need a free hour during a midday to think about the universe or wonder about a society, the authorities would laugh, or even shout "what kind of ridicilous bshit is this? return to your duty!" Of course I never did ask them, since I knew it would get me nowhere, or even leave me with a few additional hours on duty. This is injustice. And simply not democratic at all.

?

You are comparing apples to oranges. There is a BIG difference between the forbidding the performance of doing that which seeks to uphold Bible law and that which seeks to DESTROY the Bible law! No, you DO NOT HAVE PERMISSION to tear down the walls of the Holy Torah. You MAY BUILT UP THE WALLS, BUT NOT TEAR THEM DOWN, as the reform and conservative movements DO!

Do not conflate male circumcision with female circumcision, which is female genital mutilation, and which has no medical purpose.

It was the Yekers themselves that led to the destruction of German Jewry.In their desperate longing to integrate and assimiliate with the German masses they invented the Reform and Conservative Movements, shreddimg their traditional garb to approximzte to church services complete with ogan music Their headlong plunge into intermarriages resulted in th many hundreds of thousands of mischlings,one hundred and fifty thousand of whom becameHitler's Jewish Soldiers serving in all branches of the Wermacht during the Second World War with Jewish General FeltMarshals, Generals,Colonels,and a Jewish Admiral and mant captains and commanders in the GHerman Navy, GeneraLFelt Marshal Ernest Milch in the Grerman AirForce and a slew of Generals and otherJewish officers in the Luftwaffe. The paths of German Assimilation ledbut to the Graves of GErman Jewry.

"Some 500,000 Conservative and Reform Jews live in Israel." Dream on, Mr. Hess. I am an Orthodox Jew and I only wish your figures were even remotely near the truth.

Indeed Yizhar, but why confine your dicussion to Jews only? There are others who are not Jews here and also suffer the lack of religious freedom which you indicate. And apart from the Muslims who basically DO have such freedom there are Christians who do not. Why are there no churches in Tel Aviv? Why do the orthodox Jews hassle foreigners here? Many of these Christians are also citizens of Israel. Don't these people matter to you either?

I can speak from experience. Male circumcision may seem barbaric to some but the medical benefits are in no doubt. I had it done at age 24 and I can tell you that it is cleaner and it "stands up" better after than before........

and recognition. you want to ruin what is left of our religion by polluting it with your watered down Christianized version. You could call what you believe and do something else- it is not according to Jewish law. No one claims you are not a Jew, but you cannot claim what you practice is according to Jewish. so what do you want. All options are considered ok? would any catholic tell the pope that their watered down version is catholicism? no there is catholic authority who decides. here too there is an authority and it is Jewish law. Not you.

the reform and conservatives are not subjected to any coercion. If they choose to go to Cyprus to marry or do their own thing here, avakasha. The problem is reverse discrimination in the job market; the seculars don't like to hire religious folk.

What you have said is exactly right, and Hess knows it. The only conclusion is that Hess, like the rest of the extreme Left, want to damage the unity of the "tribe", whether by attacking Judaism or by importing Arabs and Africans as a first step to remove Israel's legitimacy and as a second step to destroy Israel.

Ya, ya, ya, the Rabbis ruled! Sorry, not true, some Rabbis ruled(all Orthodox) that we could go up, as long as we don't go into the forbidden areas. But, oh! Did I open another can of worms?

You must feel so proud and G0d-like judging your fellow Jews. Mr. Hess is exactly right. It is shameful how the Jewish state of Israel disenfranchises Conservative/Masorti and Reform Jews.

Yes we are one people and yes we have genetic connections. However there has never been for many many centuries racial purity ( whatever that obscene phrase means) nor has there been total ideological agreement among Jews certainly not around the nonsense espoused by Haredim and their captive chief rabbinate. Reform and masorati Rabbis have smicha whose liniage can be traced back to the same line of Rabbis as orthodox Rabbis. It is for example a conveniently ignored fact that Mordecai Kaplan the founder of reconstructionism was not only a Zionist who made Aliyah as an old man but in his younger years founded the orthodox Young Israel movement. As my grandfather who studied in the yeshiva of the Gerer rebbe would say, "in the beginning we all pissed in the same river". The only solution is the radical separation of the rabbinate from the state and full freedom of conscience including the right to secular marriage.

As I used to tell my student Meir, "think for yourself habibi and learn from but stop imitating the shtuyot of others including me".

you seriously? Insofar as MN is concerned, you don't exist, having checked marriage, drivers & phone records, you're invisible

I searched the MN phone book, lo & behold your name didn't appear. Then I went to looking to see if you where born, marriage records, death records, guess what, despite you're pretending to be Steve Ben Assi; no such creature has lived or lives in MN Sure you have an e-mail address, anyone can get more than one of them, which is just what you did to hide your real name, you fraud Do the search yourself, you miserable lying creep instant access to these records: Name State Record Type Records Steve Ben assi MN PHONE BOOKS Steve Ben assi MN 0 Birth Records View Details Steve Ben assi MN 0 Death Records View Details Steve Ben assi MN 0 Marriage Records View Details Steve Ben assi MN 0 Divorce Records View Details

is that they "convert" people "tchic tchac" , many times only to have a Jewish "wedding . I talked once to a liberal "rabbi" , he said that he prefered Jews to come to his synagogue [ in Paris , France ] by car over staying at home and loosing all connections to Judaism . On this i could only agree . But when he talked about his "conversions" , i said "no , you can't "make" Jews only to marry them , in what are those "converts" Jewish ? Only on a piece of paper , not more . When the non Orthodox movements will end those "conversions" , and make only "serious" ones , then i will agree to have them the same rights as the Orthodox rabbis . In the mean time NOT .

is that they "convert" people "tchic tchac" , many times only to have a Jewish "wedding . I talked once to a liberal "rabbi" , he said that he prefered Jews to come to his synagogue [ in Paris , France ] by car over staying at home and loosing all connections to Judaism . On this i could only agree . But when he talked about his "conversions" , i said "no , you can't "make" Jews only to marry them , in what are those "converts" Jewish ? Only on a piece of paper , not more . When the non Orthodox movements will end those "conversions" , and make only "serious" ones , then i will agree to have them the same rights as the Orthodox rabbis . In the mean time NOT

Well, thank goodness the Polish Jews didn't assmilate. Worked a treat, didn't it? The implementers of the Shoah couldn't give a damn whether Jews were orthodox, Reform, or secular. But I am sure your narrow, holier-than-thou, disparaging attitude towards 'Yekkers' gives you a wonderful feeling of self-satisfaction.

When I see the comments here, I get a very bad feeling about the future of Israel... Its not only the gap between Israel and the diaspora which is widening day by day, its a big disruption in Israel too. Soon I fear Israel will stand all alone, with no support anymore from diaspora and western countries. And the disruption is Israel itself will be tha last nail into the coffin. How sad that you all cant see it, because your hearts and minds are filled with misogyny, religious coercion and blind hate...

The ultra-orthodox stranglehold on Jewish marriage rights in Israel has NOTHING to do with halacha. It does have everything to do with political economic power corruption, which is why they refuse to give up their monopoly. They are corrupters of halacha, not guardians.

...who advocates for easy intermarriage in Israel is an ENEMY of the JEWISH state!!!! Unfortunately, all similar discussions are a sign of the deteriorating morale, which in turn is the beginning of the demise of the state.

Elianna; you are echoing the sentiments of the Religious Freedom movement exactly (am4peace.com). Ecumenism is NOT the answer. A watered down Judaism is a back door attempt to destroy Judaism. I am a Catholic and people, like the Irish, are in fact trying to tell the Pope that their watered down version is true Catholicism. We Catholics will not tolerate this and Jews should not. But having said that, there must be utter freedom for anyone to choose a religion without fear of being murdered or burned for their choice. We may not like a person's choice, but we must respect it. Germany's recent meddling with the circumcision mitzvah is intolerable. Saudi Arabia's prohibition against building Churches is criminal; especially when half of the expatriate workers that Saudi Arabia imports are Christians! Israel must continue to allow Christians to worship freely in Israel (not to freely proselytize), especially when Israel openly solicits specifically Christian religious tourism in the West.

Conservative and Reform Jews in Israel are free to build their temples and schools, to employ their rabbis etc. How can you compare that to outlawing bris milah? Israel has an 'established' religion of Halachic Judaism and therefore the Chief Rabbinate is part of the constitution, much as 23 English bishops sit in the House of Lords.

We accept the right of these movements to operate in Israel, but their policy of ordaining gay and lesbian rabbis and their willingness to perform same sex marriages makes them out of touch with basic Torah values. This may be o.k. in California, but if goes against the sanctity of our Holy Land.