Opinion  Ronen Bergman
Don't forget Germany's help
Ronen Bergman
Published: 02.09.12, 23:49
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24 Talkbacks for this article
1. Germany has been a powerful friend, in EU it was standard
PETER SM ,   MELBOURNE AUSTRALIA   (09.03.12)
and politically correct to appease Arab terrorists. "Intellectuals" & other ideologues pushed their knee jerk "3rd world can do no wrong" mantra.
2. Germany is loaded with anti-Semites.
Reuven   (09.03.12)
And it just provided Egypt with subs. Germany will never change. It's an evil nation.
3. Germany was responsible for the Holocaust,don't forget that.
Eli   (09.03.12)
4. Germany is a good friend
Henry from New York ,   Under the Tuscan Sun   (09.03.12)
I feel like people shouldn't keep referencing the Shoah over and over every time Germany is mentioned. Yes, the nazis wiped out 1/3 of our people, but that was the Nazis. Their grandchildren recognise and know what their ancestors did. Do we really want a friendship to always be based on guilt and pity or do we want one based off of genuine mutual respect? Why blame this generation for something they had no part in? Let Germany do what they wish to repent for the sins of their ancestors, but don't constantly brow-beat them on it. Eventually they'll just get tired of hearing it and tired of dealing with you.
5. They Will Never Pay Their Debt
Second Generation ,   Tel Aviv   (09.03.12)
The Germans are trying to make amends, but they will never pay this debt. They owed the submarines. They owed us their diplomatic and military support, and they will owe us for generations.
6. germany plays both sides
martin ,   uk   (09.03.12)
it also has a massive financial share with Iran. In any case, it has never fully repaid the financial and physical loss of 6 million Jews, let alone the physical and mental loss of the survivors
7. germany munich 1972
claus ,   jerusalem   (09.03.12)
yes ,germany has its share to deal with aftermath of the 1972 munich massacre. But germany too,especially under the current german leadership,is one of israels staunchest supporters. Open and not so open military assistance and cooperation. Economic assistance and cooperation. Vast bi-lateral cultural cooperation intensive intelligence cooperation and not only in trying to release israelis in captivity. Israelis in thousands apply for german citizenship and /or are doing business in or with germany. Scientific cooperation resulted in numerous joint ventures. Youth exchanges and other projects lead to a huge change of how israelis view germany and not for nothing israeli teens are travelling in the thousands to berlin instead of south america. Germany is and will be a committed supporter of israel . This does not mean that merkel has to forget german interests and to dance according to Netanyahus flute,which currently is emitting wrong tunes each and every day.
8. @4 You got it! If we help or not we ll stay nazis forever..
Paul ,   Germany   (09.03.12)
Im born 1980 my parents are born in the 1960s and I was always openmindended and curious to visit israel, but if I cant feel respected as a german in israel and if my country still cant respected and being named alone without being linked to the nazi crimes, I better dont go and stop interest in the jewish world..
9. germany
claus ,   jerusalem   (09.03.12)
paul,you do not need to worry. I live here for more than 30 years. In general israelis are pro german . In order to understand the current wave of questions concerning germany's standpoint versus israel you have to a) understand israeli politics=90 % blablabla especially in times of trouble which is always. b) israel constant play with fear of extinction which is greatly misused by politicians and/or ultra nationalists. Its middle east games .Netanyahu is a master in it (or his spin doctors)
10. To: No. 4
Sarah B ,   U.S.A. / lsrael   (09.03.12)
A young and naïve pup like you doesn't understand the pain of having Holocaust survivors for parents. You could never. These animals and their litters do not deserve your pity. Why don't you just shut up and let someone who knows better do the talking?
11. germany
claus ,   jerusalem   (09.03.12)
sarah ,i understand your pain but not not your comments. i am married as a german to daughter of holocaust survivor (who lost his family to the "animals") This is the answer
12. to #10 when someone say sorry, forgiving
ghostq   (09.03.12)
is the only thing to do, actually jews and germans before british medly in germany after ww1 was just like jews and chritians USA today.
13. To Paul number 8
Shimon ,   Poleg   (09.03.12)
Your country will never be respected. Cetainly not here. Please never visit this country, you are not welcome here. BTW my grandparents' families were murdered in Poland by Germans and my wife's father was in German work camp in Libya. I have no interest in visiting Germany so please you keep away from my country and I shall keep away from yours.
14. someone who 'knows'
sealift67 ,   northern calif   (09.03.12)
While you make a point, the inverse is also true: All reasoned people in a free world deserve a voice and should be heard. Sometimes we can be too close to an issue an lose the ability to be objective. Others who can take a step back can see the difference between then and now. Reagan learned this about comparing Stalin to Gorbachev.
15. 13 so you overtook the nazi ideology, ALL germans are thugs
(09.03.12)
Unfortunately you learnt nothing from the tragic loss of your grandparents by an ideology, put whole folks into categories, in good and bad..
16. #8 Don't take it personally
Igor ,   Germany   (09.03.12)
Let's take a look at some facts: - when Israel wanted to buy Fuchs APCs from Germany during the Terrorfada, the Germans conditioned the sale on the APCs not being used against Palestinians. - Germany regularly votes against Israel in the UNO, including, but not limited, to the infamous Separation Fence verdict. - Germany has been selling weapons to everyone wanting to "throw the Jews into the sea": Nasser, Hussein, Ahmadinejad... - Germany gives prizes and honors everyone who talks against Israel (Butler, Langer, Herrmann...) - 50% of the non-migrant(!) Germans ("Biodeutsche") consider Israelis no better than Nazis. ...and so on. So where is this great German help?
17. #13
Henry from New York ,   Under the Tuscan Sun   (09.03.12)
Germany is a well-respected nation though and many Israelis (mainly those not on YNet) respect her and welcome her people from what I know. I feel no ill will towards today's Germans (Austrians are a bit of a different story) and my family lost seven to the Nazis including my maternal grandfather's parents. The obsession over finding out their fates caused him so much grief that he passed away when my mother was only 12. We recognise that that was a different generation and a different Germany though. I have not visited Germany yet, sadly, but intend to do so in the future. #15 is correct, by the way. You should never classify an entire people as being evil, effectively.
18. Israel bulldozing hundreds of ancient Palestinian villages
Steven Benassi ,   Silver Bay, MN USA   (09.03.12)
...in 1948, 1949, was the motivation behind Black September's Munich Massacre, operation "Ikrit and Biram." Don't forget.
19. #8
Henry from New York ,   Under the Tuscan Sun   (09.03.12)
We're not all like that. There's a lot of people with very extreme views on this site that are not representative of the Jewish community as a whole. I've never met a German I didn't like, and that's before and after they've known of my Judaism (though I do sometimes get uncomfortable when they're overly accomodating to me after they learn I'm a Jew). I hope to visit the Bundesrepublik some day myself.
20. Focus on Austrians, Norwegians, and Swedes instead
Guy ,   KC, USA   (09.04.12)
The Germans have made an earnest effort to compensate former Jewish citizens (though it would never make things right), create Israel's merchant marine fleet and navy, and show leadership among European countries in Holocaust education. Meanwhile, several countries resort to anti-Semitic propaganda or subterfuge to evade attention over their complicity in the Holocaust. Austria gave birth to Hitler and its men staffed much of the Waffen SS' , but is keen to present itself as the Nazis' "first victim." Norway's defense ministry literally destroyed evidence of its citizens' participation in the Final Solution (Norwegian citizens, not foreign SS, arrested and deported Jews to their deaths, then stole their property), and in 1996, Oluf Skapnes threatened the lives of Jews on a restitution commission that dared to disagree with his miserly perspective on what the state owed its Jewish victims. The Norwegians have long resorted to Der Sturmer-style caricatures demonizing Jews in their leading newspapers, even employing Hitler-era German artist Finn Graff for this heinous work. And the Swedes have refused to prosecute any of their many home-grown and Baltic Nazi war criminals, denying justice in spite of Sweden's self-righteous pretensions of humanitarianism. (Your own Manfred Gerstenfeld has published similar facts on your Web site.)
21. #4, #5, #7, #10, #11, #12 (Claus, Henry, Sarah)
solomon ,   bklyn   (09.04.12)
I am a son of survivors, what is called "Second Generation". I do understand the pain. But I have been taught 'forgive but don't forget'. But forgiveness is not for one generation. I don't like to hear the sound of German. But I am happy to see my nieces and nephews with fewer qualms about this. I know some wonderful Germans who learned about Judaism because they found out their fathers were in the Gestapo, or because they are ashamed of what happened. To hold a sword over people forever can go both ways, as our history is not pristine either (just read the Bible). I agree with the tenet of the article: don't forget what happened in the war, but also don't forget what is happening now. West Germany began helping Israel way before the US. And no, you should not blame the children for the sins of their parents. When I was a child, my parents welcomed friends of mine who had a German background. They were clear that my friends' parents would not be welcome, but that my friends would be. There have been untold massacres throughout history, albeit never on the scale of the Shoa. But many of those countries who fought each other throughout history have made peace. As I say often: nothing is black and white. But dark grey can turn to lighter grey over time. We are the Chosen People. Not chosen to be better than anyone else, but chosen to spread the Torah and its precepts. How can we do that if we hate forever. Even HaShem forgave us for our sins; cannot we not, eventually, learn that lesson?
22. #21 - Very well said, good sir.
Henry from New York ,   Under the Tuscan Clouds   (09.04.12)
23. ''Don't forget Germany's help''
Just me ,   Israel   (09.04.12)
The only thing I'll never forget is that the Germans ''helped'' to kill half of my family!!!
24. #18 benassi
solomon ,   bklyn   (09.05.12)
You 'forget' that arab pogroms against the Jews began in the 1800's in that area. You 'forget' that their mantra is "kill the Jews". Don't forget.
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