Opinion
Women exploited by IDF
Yehuda Shein
Published: 14.10.12, 11:56
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1. The ideal would be an army with sexual predation
Ilan   (10.14.12)
I'm sure that given the proper commitment by the army to eliminate sexual harassment and hazing that many more religious girls would opt for army service instead of national service. Perhaps they are not interested in combat duty but then 90% of the women aren't in combat positions in any case.
2. This article is a joke
David ,   Israel   (10.14.12)
Not only are there women serving in great units such as Oketz ( who I had the pleasure of working with and by no means are discriminated against!) there is a woman serving in the General staff the highest rank before chief of the army. Another ynet rubbish article which is why the newspaper is failing
3. WOMEN AND THE ARMY/MILITARY.
SJOERD VAN DER VELDE ,   HOORN NH, HOLLAND   (10.14.12)
IAM CONVINCED THAT ISRAEL IS NOT THE ONLY COUNTRY WHERE WOMEN ARE UNFORTUNATELY EXPLOITED BY/IN THE ARMY, IF THIS IS ALL TRUE. THIS STILL HAPPENS NOT ONLY IN DICTATORSHIPS, BUT ALSO IN COUNTRIES WHO SAY THAT THEY ARE DEMOCRATIC, CONSTITUTIONAL STATES WHO SAY THAT WOMEN'S/HUMAN RIGHTS ARE VERY IMPORTANT TO THEM AND WHO HAVE SIGNED THE UNIVERSAL DECLARATION OF HUMAN RIGHTS OF 1948. THAT SORT OF DISCRIMINATION ALSO IS A CRIME WHICH SHOULD BE PUNISHED, NO MATTER WHAT ARMY IN WHATEVER COUNTRY.
4. Another of these typical Ynet articles
Robert Haymond ,   Israel/Gush Etzion   (10.14.12)
mystifying and hallucinating about what's really going on. There are cases of sexual abuse, of course, just as there are cases of hazing in the IDF but the virtual delegitimizing of the whole IDf as the author of this article has done if we can judge by the actual pride of female Israeli soldiers as we witness them travelling, in bus stations, on sidewalks and in our homes here in Israel. We need them and these soldiers play an important part of the Israeli ethos as a whole. The demonizing attitude of this author is shameful and...ignorant as well.
5. Climbing rank is done through proving yourself under fire
Johnny ,   Ramat Gan   (10.14.12)
Women are not required to serve in combat units though they can volunteer. It is wrong to complain about discrimination while women serve for two years mostly do not serve in comat units and while men do three years and do another 20 years of reserve duty
6. What's the point in this article?
Avi   (10.14.12)
It vaguely and shallowly talks about discrimination in the army for women without properly explaining how. It doesn't mention the high ranking female officers in the army and their %, it simply states the existence of sexual harassment (present for both men and women). It suspiciously quickly links and moves to a professional army with no apparent logic or reason. It doesn't really state why or how there's equal gender rights there compared to mandatory draft. It doesn't make sense, and sexual harassment exists in the public and private sector as well, but I've never heard of it as a cause for lack of gender equality. It gives too much room to suspect the author has a hidden political agenda as there are too many unexplained illogical holes. I'm left raising my eyebrow throughout the entire article.
7. There's indeed no equal rights for men and women
Avi   (10.14.12)
A woman serves 2 years (up from 1.8). A man serves 3 years. A woman can be raped according to army law. A man cannot be even sexually harassed as the army law doesn't recognize it. At the very best the perpetrator will be accused of misconduct. Just legally there's a huge inequality between men and women, with men being discriminated. A woman can file for rape charges, and even when false, the male soldier can spend months in prison pending investigation, based on merely her word and testimony, and I remember such a case myself until she admitted 3 months later she was lying. He was let go and not compensated. She wasn't even punished. They just moved her service somewhere else so the unit won't harass her. Socially there's also a huge gap in equality, with men expected to do all the dirty work, regardless how physically easy, do the lifting, and in mixed units carry the guns and do the guarding while the women are free of such burdens despite not having any impairments. There's indeed gender discrimination - against men, and much of it exists outside the army as well. The graffiti tags "men rights in the family" that exist in many parts in tel aviv are a symbol of that oppression, as until the child is above the age of 6, in case of a divorce, the woman automatically gets the child and the father has no say on the matter. Equality much? When they talk about inequality they only mention the female part, as if men are at the top in all parameters, and once women reach that height as well, we'll reach utopia and an end to gender issues. It's time to highlight the matter that men also suffer gender oppression both in the army (obviously) and in civil life, both in the legal and social fields.
8. 50 days detention of Haredi woman?
ORA ,   JERUSALEM   (10.14.12)
Where are the Rabbis?
9. #1
(10.14.12)
Be that as it may, women in National Service work much harder and do much more for the country than most female soldiers.
10. Sounds TBers here have no daughters
ORA ,   JERUSALEM   (10.14.12)
11. hogwash
boruch ,   Israel   (10.14.12)
This is why all of my commanders in basic training were all women. This article is a bunch of hogwash. women are treated just as equally as men are in the idf I see it for myself..
12.  Solution : amazons' army.
Istvan ,   BUDAPEST HUNGARY   (10.14.12)
Israeli women are so perfect soldiers, that no need of a men's army. Arabs will capitulate after the first shot, seeing the beautiful girls.
13. Interesting. Military teaches abuse of women in society too?
Josh   (10.14.12)
When impressionable Israelis are taught that the "group" is more important to the individual, do what your told despite moral objections, and that women are to leave their opinions to the male leaders, you can see why the society just keeps running on this fuel. It serves the "higher ups" with "family names" but it doesn't serve Jewishness. You can take the middle east out of the middle east? Israel (the average Israeli) is an oppressed society in my book and the oppressors sit right below the government and really run the lives of the people for their won benefit. Women of age cannot decide what they want for themselves and get it without someone "higher up" deciding who she can and can't talk to. Pity that Israelis don't break free from "follow the leader" when they are in the private sector and trying to live their own lives. Should we just accept it that Israelis are mooks for their oppressors (protection crowd) or are they bright Jewish minds with free thought? The military instills more than their short term needs and the idea that it creates ills in Jewish society is something very large and in need for examination.
14. The writer is Ageist!!
Amir ,   Netanya, Israel   (10.14.12)
"Who allows 20-year-old soldiers to "teach" 15-year-old girls? " - A 20-year-old soldiers can and should teach 15-year-old girls, and there is nothing inprorer or inappropriate about that. This ageism made me sick just by thinking about the disorted thoughts lead to such a sentence...
15. "impressionable Israelis" ???
Johnny ,   Ramat Gan   (10.14.12)
You really do not know Israelis. Israel is very individualistic nation. Maybe you are projecting here. Maybe it you who thinks like sheeple
16. They are all exploited...
sheik rattle & roll ,   USA   (10.14.12)
First and foremost they are all exploited. The payscale for IDF soldiers is ridiculous. I know your response is that it is called national service etc. I don't buy that argument. The US paid it's drafted soldiers almost as much in 1941 so the argument of national service is BS. At least $1000.00 a month would be fare. Israel with it's 100 percent tax rate on some goods can afford to give it's soldiers at least a $1000.00 a month which is still considered poverty level wages in most western countries.
17. American armed forces
Akiva ,   NYC   (10.14.12)
It has come out more and more that once America integrated women into men's units, there was sexual harrassment on a significant scale. Giving male officers power over female recruits has led to much abuse. People with common sense saw this in advace but the politically correct brigade knew better. There are similar problems in the IDF -- and women should not be placed in a difficult situation.
18. Get Out the Kleenex and the Violins!
Dovid Kent ,   New York City   (10.14.12)
YNET News is an excellent publication.However,this article is so silly .The women of the IDF are tough.Mess with them and you will be the one in the Emergency Room.I hate this victim crap.
19. A reflection
Taxpayer ,   Hod Hasharon   (10.15.12)
The army is a reflection of society - and there is much to correct in our society. The idea of forcefully recruiting Haredim into the army is disastrous from this perspective because the arny will adjust to respect them and their outdated outmoded misogynist lifestyle. I see the case of my daughter who was a sergeant in charge of raw recruits. Highly motivated untiul she was told to go to the warehouse and get long-skirts because she was going to be given a pluga of Haredim. She of course refused and continued to wear her trousers, however she was given a corporal so that she could give instructions to the corporal who would then give them to the soldiers - of course she could not speak to them. Four days into their basic trainign one of them went home on leave because his wife went to the mikvah and he was therefore entitled to a 24 hour pass. It goes without saying that these raw recruits were being paid more than her brother - a combat officer. As you can imagine there was realtrouble when it came time to teach these 20 year old the national anthem - she of course was not allowed to sing it to them. Why am I angry about this - because my daughter is no longer in the country - because she sees no need to dedicate her life to financing these people, and sees the time in another 20 years when heaven forbid they become the majority and the country is finished.
20. let's look closer at this "Equality Now"....
Bluegrass Picker ,   Afula   (10.15.12)
is it funded by foreign interests which do not hold a license to do political agitation in Israel? In the USA, that would be a federal felony!
21. How can we take this matter so lightly?
Michael ,   Jerusalem   (10.16.12)
Yehuda Shein is 1000% right in his observations of the way women in certain circles of the army are treated, and how women in Israeli society in general are treated. I'm quite disappointed by the many responses to this article that show a clear disregard for a serious problem in our country. On a regular basis, these webpages of Ynet feature stories of women in the army being abused by superiors. How then could people here claim that this isn't a chronic problem that needs to be addressed. Some examples: - a june 9th article "Air Force instructors suspected of sexually abusing students" - a may 5th article "Rise in sexual harassment complaints" - an August 30th article about Niso Shaham's coercion of female subordinates To all those who responded to this with such disregard, just think for a moment if any of the girls mentioned in these articles were a relative of yours, would you continue to take this issue so lightly? Why are there not stronger policies in the army punishing such behavior? What kind of education to prevent sexual harassment currently exists in the army? In every workplace in America, at every staff orientation meeting, this is required. Yehuda is also correct in his assertion that this affects the "tone at the top" in our country. We have a former president sitting in jail for rape, and a mayor kiryat malachi also suspected of serious misconduct. Need I say more! Is every woman in the army being abused? Of course not. I'd like to think that this doesn't happen too often. I would like to KNOW FOR SURE that if cases of abuse occur, the perpetrators get the book thrown at them, and I have serious doubts about whether that is indeed happening.
22. Women exploited by IDF
Sara ,   Canada   (11.13.12)
Women in Israeli society are second class because of the orthodox control of far too many ministries!
23. Women in the US army are more likely to be raped then...
Eric ,   Canada   (12.09.12)
...killed in active duty. CNN put out an article a year ago how rape is so common in the US army its frightening (Google: rape US army). Yet this fool seems to believe that Israel is not a professional army. And the US is??
24. Slow news day...
Colorado ,   USA   (03.07.13)
Just because something is "published" doesn't make it true. But it does make it "quotable" as in "Today ynet news reported that..." as some kind of ultimate authority, AND it makes it possible for agitators to climb on the boards and try to influence public opinion. Just look at the last paragraph. PURE PROPAGANDA for the the Left and the Moslems.
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