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Officer questions Haredi battalions' commitment
Itamar Fleishman
Published: 04.11.12, 23:36
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22 Talkbacks for this article
1. 'Just following orders'
Sherlock Holmes ,   London England   (11.05.12)
The other side of the coin is that many religious soldiers may feel it is immoral to remove Jews from their homes inside Eretz Israel, the heartland of which is the West Bank. Is it enough to say you were 'just following orders'?
2. LET'S COUNT THE WAYS
David ,   New York, NY   (11.05.12)
Just one example of dozens in which the most "fervent" followers of the Jewish religion complicate and, let's be honest, actually endanger the security and survival of the Jewish state. Like the mayor of New York City who realized at the last possible moment that now was not the time to have a marathon, maybe the haredi and others such as the extreme LEFT will have also epiphanies... and let'sall hope it won't be too late
3. Apparently, only haredim have sensitivity & kindness
Shmuel   (11.05.12)
and would not have the heart to throw their Jewish brothers out of their homes.
4. bs
Jarvis ,   Joseph USA   (11.05.12)
civil service with military training commitment. study Talmud all you wish. at least it is good for them to understand basic aspects of military operations. ask ezekiel if they are clean by cow dung. .
5. Soldiers are trained to fight the enemy
David ,   On this planet   (11.05.12)
and not their own people. The IDF should quit creating problems and do their only job. to fight the enemy and defend the country. keep politics out of the IDF and every one will be happy, enough with your games . Israel is surrounded by enemies and you keep playing games
6. Do commanders question soldiers frm Ha Shomer Kibutzim about
Israel ,   Israel   (11.05.12)
Do commanders question soldiers from Ha Shomer Ha Tzeir Kibutzim about their faithfulness in carrying out orders relating to Arabs???
7.  THE ORDERS STINK
DA RAP ARTISTE ,   SAFED OPERAHOUSE   (11.05.12)
These "orders " stink to high heaven .NO WAY JOSE .No jew should ever evict his fellow jew from his/ her home .PERIOD. As for " I was just following orders boss " I seem to remember these infamous words from seventy years ago .
8. Yes? But is it ok for liberals to refuse to serve
mel ,   chicago   (11.05.12)
in Judea and Samaria because they dont want to oppress poor Arabs there?
9. Remember Nuremberg?
Sarah B ,   U.S.A / Israel   (11.05.12)
And the other Nazi war criminal trials? Didn't the Allies hang soldiers for following orders? And now, the State of Israel is proposing to cashier soldiers who do not follow immoral orders. What a topsy turvy world. That which was condemned sixty-five years ago is all of a sudden acceptable. By Jews, no less. Disgraceful and disgusting.
10. Once again harideem making problems
Haim ,   TA   (11.05.12)
If they dont accept their orders throw them in jail where im assured they will get 3 kosher meals aday .
11. Problem solved: EVERY soldier should deny that order!
tom ,   tel aviv   (11.05.12)
12. #5 Your point is absolutely correct
(11.05.12)
It is Treason to ask soldiers to evict and harm their fellow citizens. It is against nature and therefore anti-Human Rights. The Left has an intellectual disorder and does not understand... What "Peace" is and how to get there... The insidious nature of Fascism and Bigotry.... Their continued deliberate ignorance is criminal.
13. Exodus 32:27, this is for the obedience.
(11.05.12)
This would go for the Levites, for those saying they are following the Word of the Lord, for those calling themselves of the names (the faiths) and for one to anticipate calling themselves of the group. Otherwise, it's just calling yourself by a name in vain and whoring after different gods. Leviticus 19:34 is for your treatment of everyone in this case living on the land. The Word of the Lord, includes the "going's on" in Tel Aviv. Try this religious military group to enforce the law there where the "civil" police need help.
14. Orders
israel israeli ,   tel aviv   (11.05.12)
General Iftach Spector was an IAF pilot who also happened to be a fanatic Leftist Not only did he refuse combat orders, he incited other officers to refuse combat orders. In all Western countries he would be demoted to private, in some he would get capital punishment. Instead, Ehid Barak gave Spector a medal. If this story is true, Hagai Mordechai must be immediately dismissed from the army: you cannot demand more from enlisted infantry than from high-ranking officers.
15. Army is NOT a Police!
Alf Red ,   Londonistan - Israel   (11.05.12)
And I do hope when Barak is thrown from Government and Kneset, Zahal will become again the defender of Israel, not a destructor of Jewish homes as now.
16. Haredim following orders or not
Toledano Jean-Pierre ,   Israel   (11.05.12)
Also I don't believe that the so called haredi troops or battalions will follow some orders from their officers or from the miltary headquarters especially if they have to come into action against other Haredim. I personally think as long the action takes place on Israeli West Bank territories they have to follow the orders. If not court-martial. But, by allowing this battalions to operate without female soldiers, the government, Knesseth and Tsahal made already a mistake. If you give people a finger they want or take a hand, if you give them a hand they want or take an arm, etc… Their demands will never end. I was always against the fact to allow them in the regular Tsahal. In Europe, during the cold war, everybody has to serve in the army. These conscientious objectors could choose to go to jail or to serve in the civilian service, but some months longer than in the army. Better than shooting their officers in their back, like some soldiers did in the First World War,…. I prefer not to put them (haredim) in jail, but they have to be obliged to serve in such a civilian service: fighting fires in the Galil, Golan Heights, chemical companies, offer help after rocket attacks or earthquakes, etc… Bet, at the end they will choose for the Tsahal?
17. Since when is the army's job to evict people from their home
rebecca ,   modiin   (11.05.12)
All these leftist are so adamant that the Haredim MUST serve in the IDF, but then they dont like that the Haredim might not follow their godless orders. If enough Haredim join the army they might be really sorry, for there might be more Haradi officers soon.
18. A legitimate question to ask
Sarah B ,   Tel Aviv/London   (11.05.12)
and a clear signal that the Haredi endanger the State of Israel. In particular tohe IDF as the Haredi agree to serve but will only do what they want to do when they want to do it. We could I suppose have a two tier military with the Haredi seperate from the army and made into an elite division, to act as a bodyguard to the President of Israel for example. Or, which would be of the greatest benefit to Israel, and remove all benefits to being Haredi (they can have the same rights as an ordinary decent Israeli citizen) and start Israel society again as from 1945 with the same goals and ideals of Ben Gurion. Every one treated the same with the goal of establishing a homeland for all Jews, not just the black clad elite
19. one of the soldiers who dont want the haredi in the army
zionist forever   (11.05.12)
The IDF has mixed feelings on absorbing the haredi, some think they will make a contribution to the army and they should all join whilst others like this officer thinks that they should not serve so they make up reasons to justify their arguments which is what this guy is doing. There are hundreds of haredi who have been serving in the army for years in both combat & non combat roles. The army might not be for everybody and there should be a civilian national service alternative but the idea that the haredi ( all haredi ) are going to be a problem is an insult to the soldiers who have served well and the haredi population in general who have not yet been drafted but will eventually. Haredi or non haredi evacuating settlements is a job for hired private security who are doing it for money not for soldiers who are forced to chose between following orders or doing something they don't believe in. I remember watching on the news during the evacuation of Gush Katif there were soldier who were crying because they hated what they were being ordered to do. The job of a soldier is to defend the people not make Jews homeless for politics.
20. question druse abilties?
ma nishma ,   modiin   (11.05.12)
Can we trust the Druse to move out illegal Druse settlements? Same thing here, the police won't use Druse police against Druse, so lets use brains instead of brute stupidity.
21. 18
zionist forever   (11.05.12)
You are against the haredi serving because you don't think they can be trusted but at the same time you want to punish the haredi. The haredi don't get special benefits that others in their economic situation are not entitled to. Even if they were what does that have to do with forcing the to serve in the IDF, what do you want ban them from serving because you don't trust them and then punish them because they are not serving ? As for the claims being made by this officer, thats one mans opinion and the haredi have not been put in a position yet to prove they will disobey orders. These are just one mans assumptions so we are not exactly talking proven facts here are we, what right does he or anybody else to judge the haredi before they have been ordered to do anything?
22. 10
zionist forever   (11.05.12)
What problems exactly are the haredim making here, they havn't been asked to do anything yet? This statement is the unproven opinion of one man, you can't condemn the haredi or any other soldier because one man thinks they are going to disobey orders.
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