Opinion
Try talking to Hamas
Avner Fainguelernt
Published: 19.11.12, 11:10
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61. To #50 Leftists vs. Zionists: History lesson
Tom W ,   USA   (11.19.12)
Bolshevik (Marxist) Jews were openly opposed to Zionism from early on. They considered Zionism as "bourgeois nationalism", in accordance with Marx's anti-Jewish thesis, "On the Jewish Question, 1843". The dichotomy of "Internationalist" (Marxist) Jews and Zionist (nationalist) Jewry does exist even today. Churchill in his essay: "Zionism versus Bolshevism. A Struggle for the Soul of the Jewish People" (1920) gave an astute description of the various Jewish political ideology which forms the Jewish societies today. Because the liberal press has the upper hand everywhere, dissenting voices are usually censored and deleted from public discourse.
62. To Sara B. #46
Palestinian ,   E. Jerusalem   (11.19.12)
Gaza's population is 80% refugee. These were people driven out of their native town and villages upon the creation of the State of Israel by Zionist immigrants from the West. It is the biggest "indian" reserve on earth!! I thought this fact has to be highlighted to put things into context. Only 30% of the population of the West bank are refugees. Israel refuses to let these refugees back into their towns and villages. It also refuses to let more than 5 million others who ended up behind the Lebanese, Syrian and Jordanian borders. Israel is the entity that was created on the destruction of another people, and not the other way around! As the late Jewish Philosopher Martin Buber wrote about Israel: "Only an internal revolution can have the power to heal our people of their murderous sickness and causeless hatred. It is bound to bring complete ruin upon us. Only then will the old and young in our land realize how great was our responsibility to those miserable Arab refugees in whose towns we have settled Jews who were brought from afar; whose homes we have inherited, whose fields we now sow and harvest; the fruit of whose gardens, orchards and vineyards we gather; and in whose cities that we robbed, we put up houses of education, charity and prayer while we babble and rave about being the 'people of the book' and 'the light of the nations'"
63. you have to listen
dr k_w ,   gaza   (11.19.12)
it sounds that 99.99% of the reader are against peace or at least they want peace climitizes according to their understanding. peace means lots of things to do peace means you have to have tolerance with others peace means there is a nation which has the right to live as well as you i think people like you as a destructive commentators are good example and good support for being classified as a genuine obstacle towards achieving peace
64. What are you smoking ?
GENESIS ,   JHB RSA   (11.19.12)
They want the whole of Israel. They want us all out. They don't want to talk. They are counting on breaking us in the long run. Seems like you are the first !!!
65. Youi Can't Talk To A Man With a Shotgun In His Hand
emanon ,   USA   (11.19.12)
66. Clint was embarrassing?
JB ,   Rehovot Israel   (11.19.12)
Boy are you out of touch. Are you even American? If not, stay out of U.S. politics please. Clint Eastwood's speech was legendary, and will be talked about for generations. Your suicidal delusions won't.
67. to #62
David ,   W.Jerusalem   (11.19.12)
Some details had been omitted, but thanks anyway.
68. To #63
Fed up!   (11.20.12)
peace means not firing rockets, targeting civilians from the other side of the border. What kind of peace did YOU have in mind? The peace or the peaces?
69. best article I have ever read in life
muhamad ben shiraleh ,   qatar, palestina   (11.20.12)
hamas is a peaceful orgynation. if only israel would demilitarize then there will be peace. if hamas had the firepower Israel has, then they would force Israel to live in peace. the young leftists in America understand this and will soon dwarf the old democracy in America and Islam along with sharia will reign supreme from New York to los Angeles to London to palestine. allahu-akbar muhamad
70. No15
Jose ,   Seville,Spain   (11.20.12)
Perfect answer..His logical and academic mind has driven him to write this however Mr Fainguelernt is one dimensional, he cannot understand the mindset, mentality of these Hamas people and others of similar totalitarian ideology,they only believe and always will believe in the destruction of Israel. Any negotiation is solely for delaying tactics, to deceive and to manipulate.
71. internal unity instead of talking
Zsolt Hermann ,   Wanganui,New Zealand   (11.20.12)
I am not sure how effective talking to Hamas would be. After all Hamas and the Palestinians wedged into the territories, or Hezbollah and other immediate threats are simply proxies manipulated by much stronger and unyielding powers. Those powers, and many around the world question the right of Israel to exist, because Israel itself does not behave like a nation living on its homeland. Israelis and Jews in general only unite as a result of external pressure, when they have to fight some common enemy, either outside or inside. The main shortcoming of the leaders of Israel and other important Jewish leaders and personalities worldwide is that they do not do everything in their power to facilitate a true national unity, building a real mutual guarantee system. On such a foundation, where there is no doubt that Israelis and world-wide Jewry consider themselves a single Nation regardless of where they live no other nation or individual would question the right to exist and even the proxies would lower their weapons and retreat. Weapons or diplomacy could never offer long term solution for Israel, only a shining positive example can, and example the whole world would want to follow.
72. The need to build a proper foundation
David Prosser ,   Sacramento, USA   (11.20.12)
If a foundation is corrupt, then what is the point of attempting to construct a building on it? The relationship between the Arab states and Israel, and Israel towards the Arab states, is corrupt. So then any talk of peace, etc. is irrational. It can not work because a stable foundation does not exist. So how can a proper foundation be built? The answer here is not in military conquest, or in X leader being elected as opposed to Y. The true problem is cultural. What is required of the nation of Israel to rise above these problems? What is required of the Arab states to adopt different ideals which accept the nation of Israel as a state? For this to occur new education is needed. Both the Arab states and Israel must learn of their interconnection and interdependence and how this continues the cycles of hatred, ignorance, and destruction of many types. Here though Israel has an advantage. It is not a military advantage but an advantage that long ago the nation of Israel lived under the conditions of the arvut, of the mutual guarantee. In an interconnected and interdependent world which sees crises resulting from failure to live properly under these conditions, the thing that is most needed is a mutual guarantee. As a result of Israel having this example from her past, the people of Israel should now realize that the mutual guarantee is not some sort of utopianistic ideal that has long passed. It is today as relevant as ever and more than that, today the entire world needs to hear about the mutual guarantee and how this can save the world from all the troubles it is currently experiencing. So what is the proper foundation for peace between Israel and her neighbors? It is in leading by example. Of course Israel must protect herself but she must also realize that she must set the proper example that will help to correct the relationships that exist in the world.
73. I though LSD was outlawed in israel
Daniel ,   Beer Sheva   (11.20.12)
is he deaf, stupid or just delusional... one of the reason we are in shit is 2000 years of christian instigated hatred and 1400 years of muslim hate speech.... very prevalent among hamas. They will and cannot accept us as it will destroy their entire self-narrative. We have to accept this
74. No69
Jose ,   Seville,Spain   (11.20.12)
Hahahaha, Yes Islam and Hamas share a perfectly peaceful ideology.......as long as you agree to world domination by them and totalitarianism!!. I think that ideology has been tried before Mr Poster resulting in millions of deaths.
75. The blockade
Miche Norman ,   Hod Hasharon   (11.20.12)
Has the blockade worked - does it even effect the shortrange missiles? The Blockade is a means to an end - not an end in itself and what is wrong with trying to negotiate a proper ceasefire, like the one with Syria and Chi-zvallah?
76. Talking to Hamas
Steve Engber ,   Wisconsin, USA   (11.20.12)
Yes, do talk to Hamas--maybe with Hezbollah in the same room--and make clear the ground rules for modern civil society: political parties are not armed entities. When they are armed entities, they are not parties but militias. Maybe point out that Morsi was forced into this "realization" and has done quite well for himself.
77. To #51
Steve ,   Wisconsin   (11.20.12)
Read your entire post and finished as I began: wondering when you'd get to your point.
78. To # 71
Stan ,   Israel   (11.20.12)
As you said, your mail has nothing to do with "Talking to Hamas" After living in Israel for 50 years, I can assure you that it's more likely that sharks and seals or wolves and deer could live amicably together than National Unity in Israel. As for the author of this article, who has been attacked and ridiculed by everyone, his proposals have as much likelyhood of success as those made by his detractors. It seems to be, that if Hamas were to talk to Israel (about Peace), then it would cease to be Hamas.
79. To # 41
Stan ,   Israel   (11.20.12)
Adam thank you for your beautiful words ISRAEL HAS PROVEN TO THE WORLD THAT IT IS STRONG ENOUGHTO WAGE WAR. IT HAS YET TO SHOW THAT IT IS STRONG ENOUGH TO WAGE PEACE. This should become the motto of all those who believe that the Israeli Palestinian conflict can only be solved through negotiation and not by power. Adam, your sentence ....."has Israel really suffered so much"? is unfitting. Shderot and the settlements along the Gaza border have lived through 12 years of continuous rocket or mortar attacks. This has been ignored by the world, but also, much of the time by our government as well. At least 30% of the children in the border area are growing up with problems resulting from these attacks.
80. #79. The attacks are 100% results of Israeli retreat.
Chaim ,   Israel   (11.20.12)
#79 Stan. There is only one reason Israel suffers terror and rockets from Gaza. That reason is Israel's lunatic retreat from Gaza. The only reason Israel suffers rockets from Lebanon is Israel's lunatic retreat from our South Lebanon Security Zone. Virtually ALL Israel's major problems are direct results of Israeli retreats. End Israeli retreats and and the suffering.
81. # 40
Stan ,   Israel   (11.20.12)
Your post is shallow, but contains elements similar to proposals I made 7 years ago concerning Gaza. Israel's government has at last learnt, that in order to use power you must first use diplomacy. Netanyahu and Leiberman made great efforts prior to the attack in Gaza to show that the time had come to put a stop to all that. It seems that a cease fire is imminent, and that we will soon begin a period of relative quiet on the border between israel and Gaza. I propose that in the coming weeks, The government of Israel begin to operate on the diplomatic front. All Israel's ambassadors, to foreign countries, and to the UN and other international bodies will explain Israel's future policy in response to any attack emanating from Gaza. It should be explained that there will be Zero Tolerance. Israel will retaliate to the first rocket or mortar, and that the retaliation will increase with each rocket or mortar that may follow. The retaliation will be tank or artillary shells fired soon after the initial Palestinian attack. FIVE SHELLS will be fired in the general direction from which the enemy fire came. If another rocket is fired, the retaliation will be TWENTY FIVE SHELLS, and a third rocket or group of rockets, ONE HUNDRED AND TWENTY FIVE SHELLS, etc, etc. This system of immediate retrobution, will let the enemy know, that each rocket he fires could lead to the death of his loved ones. If Israel's citizens in the South are allowed to live in peace, then so too will the Palestinians in Gaza. IF NOT, THEN THEIR PEOPLE WILL SUFFER FIVEFOLD SQUARED. Finally, I suggest that once a month, fliers should be dropped over Gaza to remind them of the consequences of some foolhardy aggression.
82. The stick and the carrot
Stan ,   Israel   (11.20.12)
My previous post was the stick, this is the carrot. 1. Israel should cut back the sea blocade on Gaza. This can be done with the cooperation of Israel's European allies who will monitor the contents of ships which will sail from European ports. 2. Gaza fishermen are not allowed to fish more than 3 km. from the coastline. Israel should allow free fishing, on condition that the fishermen agree that every boat that returns from more than 3 km at sea, will be inspected by an Israel Navy crew. (Alternatively this could be done by Americans) 3. Egypt should make the movement of people in and out of Gaza more possible.. Israel's aim should be to end Gaza's current dependency on Israel for almost all its civilian requirements. (This week there was a situation that while Israelis and Gazans were trying to kill one another, hundreds of trucks passed though the border from Israel to Gaza carrying food and other necessary supplies for the people of Gaza)
83. To # 66
Stan ,   Israel   (11.20.12)
Funny, I too saw on US TV that Clint Eastwood did not help matters. But then I suppose that you are happy with the situation and don't think that any changes have to be made before 2016
84. not every weapon.
Mark Michael ,   Hattiesburg USA   (11.21.12)
How about a Neutron Bomb
85. What is there to lose by talking?
Humayun Mirza ,   London, England   (11.21.12)
But you already have the most powerful military and the strategic position is totally in Israel's favor. The rest of the world can do nothing. What is there to lose by talking?
86. #41 Well said.
(11.21.12)
87. Mr. Avner
Shlomo ,   Brazil   (11.21.12)
I followed the history of Israel and his people, and I honor and have a deep respect to Israel and his people and I have only one thing to say to you, Israel did what no country has done before to those who received them with guns in 1948. Is real has given citizenship to Palestinians who do not recognize Israel.
88. What about all the Jews forced out of Arab countries?
Rene ,   USA   (11.21.12)
@TATA, did you know that over 800,000 Jews lost their homes in Arab countries and were driven out with no where else to go but Israel? Original estimates are that there were originally 30,000 Palestinian refugees. They were offered a 2 state solution in 1948, and again under Clinton. They refused time and time again. They want Jews dead and gone. I am sorry that there are tragic deaths on both sides, but the Palestinians have made things worse for themselves and the Arab countries did not welcome the Palestinians into their countries when they could have.
89. To # 85
Stan ,   Israel   (11.21.12)
Thank you for your words of wisdom.
90. If Israel does not make a serious effort
Stan ,   Israel   (11.21.12)
to begin negotiations with Abbas and the PA, not only will this threaten Israel's future, it will also weaken Israel politically in our conflict with Hamas. If Israel proceeds, as I have suggested (see #81) or any other defense proceedure which the govt. may decide upon, it will be far easier for our friends in the world to defend Israel's actions during, or after such negotiations.
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