Opinion
How to break the cycle
Avraham Sela, Oren Barak
Published: 25.11.12, 11:00
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62 Talkbacks for this article
31. The Japanese and Germans would have stopped if we had
Steven Wilson ,   Anchorage,Alaska   (11.25.12)
built a stable state for them before World War Two occured?? Both countries came out of poverty to become a stable state... then got the idea of ruling the entire world with their newly formed stable state. We ended world war two by Bombing the entire civilian population into oblivion. The enemy was sick and tired of war...as well as the main practitioners for war...were defeated and dead by the millions. This syndrome of helping your neighbor become as wealthy and financially stable as yourselves is a pipe dream. The whole goal of Hamas is your extinction or deportation from the Middle East. No amount of liberal mumbo jumbo is going to stop the Arabs and Persians from achieving this goal. Iran plays the Arab population as it attains a nuclear weapon to become the most powerful nation in the Middle East. The real truth is that the Jews might have to quit worrying about world opinion on CNN.....and use massive retaliation .....killing scores of civilians to achieve a lasting peace. If you don't kill the group that is advocating your destruction by wiping them out in large numbers......then they just come back for another try at your population over and over. Gaza might have to be leveled anotherwords.
32. MUCH SIMPLER
clagros ,   raanana- israel   (11.25.12)
It was never been in the whole history of the humankind a single war between two DEMOCRATIC countries. THAT SIMPLE.
33. Aiding the enemy
Luke ,   South Africa   (11.25.12)
I can't believe that this is an israeli-sponsored newspaper !
34. Stop Extremism
belinda ,   Perth, WA   (11.25.12)
I saw a picture of two Palestinian men in balaclavas with guns. They had a 5 year old boy with them and he was holding a gun and yelling. What's that about? It's absolute lunacy in my country!
35. HOW? It may be a good hope but how can it happen?
Robert   (11.25.12)
36. Colonel Richard Justin Kemp CBE knows what to do...
Alexander Beck ,   Zurich   (11.25.12)
Please LIKE this page, if you also agree Colonel Richard Justin Kemp CBE deserves the Medal to the Righteous among the Nations for his continuous efforts to defend Israel's right to self-defence and promote Israel's right to exist. https://www.facebook.com/pages/Colonel-Richard-Justin-Kemp-CBE-Medal-to-the-Righteous-among-the-Nations/139717686176892
37. No, you can't!
Igor ,   Germany   (11.25.12)
I, for one, wouldn't take Egypt and Syria as examples of stability. I'm not that sure about Jordan, either. Israel has no means of creating a stable Palestinian entity. Not even the USA has such means. The instability in Lebanon, Iraq, Libya, Algeria, Morocco, Yemen... (you name it) is not a result of an Israeli, or even American bad influence. It is inherent in the mentality, which is significantly formed by the religion. There's no chance Israel can change that. It can only hope to keep a military edge sufficient to defend itself.
38. Just look....
David ,   Haifa   (11.25.12)
...where about half of the negative and poisonous reactions to this article come (abroad) and you understand one of Israel's main problems today: we are led from war to war by a bunch of messianic fanatics and their representatives in the Knesset, who are supported - financially and otherwise - by no less fanatic, so-called friends of Israel, Jewish and non-Jewish, who enjoy themselves near the fleshpots of Egypt, and whose main support of the Jewish state consistst of writing checks and sending hateful feedbacks to anything remotely moderate or leftwing that they come across online, while true Zionists like myself, professor Sela and Dr. Barak, AND OUR SONS AND DAUGHTERS, live and work here, do our duty as soldiers and reserve soldiers, and try to find a way out of the status quo that is killing us.
39. A reasonable article followed by predictable responses
esse ,   --   (11.25.12)
It is not just the Palestinians who need to change, we must also. We must marginalize those Israelis who think "nuking" the Palestinians is a viable option. Until we fully stand for peace and justice, we cannot expect our enemies to.
40. 2012 is like 1967 not 1993
Avi ,   USA   (11.25.12)
The Arabs have become Islamists who's goals are no different than Nazi's. No chance of Peace or stability till this is resolved. Like in the early years of israel the relationship to the Neighborhood is to hit them hard and get a ceasefire. The only difference today is that we learned Occupying land is not to our benefit like in 1967. So as long as there is no peace there will be these conflicts everytime these Nazis need to make a point. The best thing about this war was that the IDF fought it by Air Only and managed to hit more targets with less civilian casualties. This realizes a strategy that israel has been trying to since the Gulf War to win a war by air with low combat fatalities.
41. stop that nonsense, please.
Vitas ,   Israel   (11.25.12)
wow - so easy. "One day all the good people should kill all the bad people and heaven will finally come to this world!" So many of us are so obsessed with the mantras like yours. "Arabs are naturally bad", "Muslims want to conquer the world", all that blah-blah. Fascism, racism, nazism, or sheer stupidity do not let us see people behind "-isms", dogmas, and prejudices. We will all suffer until majority of us would take mantras and dogmas for granted and forget about common sense.
42. #2 -Well said, that about sums it right!
D   (11.26.12)
43. The left gets loonier by the day.
Chaim ,   Israel   (11.26.12)
The Israeli left has been infallibly wrong about every major since 1948; from Oslo, to Disengagement, to building freezes, to ceding Gaza to...everything. Thus virtually every intelligent Israeli has abandoned the left. This partly explains this absurd article and the fact that the left gets loonier by the day.
44. #38 David: Three points
Igor ,   Germany   (11.26.12)
1. Do you really believe Israel supporters from abroad finance Hamas to fire rockets at Sderot? Or any other world-wide Jewish conspiracy theory? 2. This is an English language site. It is obviously directed at non-Hebrew audience. Therefore, most comments come from abroad. 3. You are free to try come up with your arguments. You can explain to us why Egypt and Syria are so stable countries, or how stability of Germany and Japan guaranteed the world peace in the 1940ies.
45. 4
(11.26.12)
no problem with having your state, salma. except there will never be a right of return of palestinians into israel. this is why you will have a state....so that all those palestinians can enjoy living in THIER OWN STATE. AND NOT IN ISRAEL. WHY HAVE A PALESTINIAN STATE IF YOU WANT 7 MILLION PALESTINIANS TO LIVE IN ISRAEL?
46. To: No. 39
Sarah B ,   U.S.A. / Israel   (11.26.12)
The difference being that when Israel speaks about peace and justice, we actually mean precisely that. I think the past seven decades are more than ample proof that the ersatz "Palestinians" are interested in neither. If you have a cancerous growth in your body, it must be excised. Cancer within the body politic must also be excised. The ersatz "Palestinians" have had ample opportunity to prove that they want peaceful coexistence with the State of Israel. Nothing they have ever done indicates that they are in the least bit interested. Israel thus has a choice -- live in a constant state of brinksmanship with implacable foes sworn to the destruction of the State of Israel -- or get rid of the problem. I'm all for getting rid of the problem. You cannot reason with rabid dogs. It is time that Israel stops trying.
47. #34
Non-Jew ,   England   (11.26.12)
It's a form of child abuse in mine.
48. To No. 46
Bertram ,   London, UK   (11.26.12)
"If you have a cancerous growth in your body, it must be excised. Cancer within the body politic must also be excised." Are you so ignorant of European history of the last century as to be completely unaware of the implications of the language you use? If you do not know what I mean I suggest you go back to school.
49. Help build them a state?
frauss ,   Jerusalem   (11.26.12)
We let Arafat build a casino in Jericho because after that, he would "have something (a money generator) to lose". Did that stop him from launching a second Intifada? When Sharon pulled us out of Gaza we left them agricultural infrastructure. What did they do with it? Trash millions of dollars of greenhouses and equipment. It kind of reminds me of Aesop's fable of a man taking a poisonous snake into his house to care for. And we should help them build a state? I figured out years ago that we owe them nothing and that we should take care of ourselves. They can take care of themselves. If they had ever made peace with us we would all be living now in the Garden of Eden.
50. Peace depends on resounding Israeli victory.
Chaim ,   Israel   (11.26.12)
Europe and Asia are enjoying peace due solely to the WW II Allies' resounding military victory over Germany and Japan. Israel's path to peace is identical. Resounding victory over "Palestinian" poseurs, followed by their mass permanent departure from our land.
51. To No. 50
Bertram ,   London, UK   (11.26.12)
What an amazing reading of history! You might want to add that the Allies made it their business to ensure that after 1945 both Germany and Japan were given sufficient support to enable them to be major world players in the decades following the war. Perhaps that was also a factor in keeping the peace. So, you might have something here - Israel's path to peace is identical.
52. Same old, same old
Dan Friedman ,   NYC   (11.26.12)
Two cookie cutter lefties recommending more of the same.
53. What Israel needs
Syd Chaden ,   Palermo Calif USA   (11.27.12)
I agree that what Israel needs now is not a military victory. But, I do not agree that Israel must make its Muslim adversaries "stable", To do so would require making them non-Muslim. Israel, and the rest of the non-Muslim World, needs to recognize that the root of the conflicts is Islam, and the violence is incited by the Mullahs. In other words, the problem lies with Islam, and its prescription for death to the Jews and to infidels. In order to be effective, a response to the Muslim attacks must be impressive to the Mullahs. Military attacks are not impressive to those who send suicide bombers who happily shout "Allah Akbar" as they die. Israel should implant explosives around the Al Aksa Mosque and declare that the next Muslim attack on Israel will bring the destruction of the Mosque. The Mullahs can issue Fatwas against further attacks, or they can see their Mosque destroyed. Israel will either be free from further attacks, or it can clear the rubble from the site of the Mosque and commence reconstruction of the Jewish Temple. This policy will not make matters worse, because they cannot be worse. Islam is already pledged to destroy Israel. That is what must stopped.
54. "Idiots" doesn't do justice to Barak& Sela!
tom ,   tel aviv   (11.27.12)
55. To No. 53
Bertram ,   London, UK   (11.27.12)
I have some sympathy with your position regarding Islam. However, your radical 'solution' must be shunned for its barbarism. Remember, at one time the Roman Catholic church had a similar stance towards Jews viz. the Crusades and the Inqusition. The church changed its behaviour even while its words were still anti-Jewish. Islam, like the Catholic church, will not disappear, but neither is it monolithic. Israel should act intelligently to make alliances - not friendships - where there are mutual interests, even with 'Islamic' states that still retain anti-Jewish and anti-Israel rhetoric. These may be temporary - or, with luck, long-lasting.
56. #53. General Patton: There is no substitute for victory.
Chaim ,   Israel   (11.27.12)
#53. Resounding victory over "Palestinian" poseurs is EXACTLY what Israel needs. Resounding victory creates certainty. It removes "Palestinian" pretensions that they will conquer us one day. It sets the stage for their mass departure from our land. In the words of General George Patton, one of the greatest military leaders in history, "There is no substitute for victory".
57. To No. 56
Bertram ,   London, Uk   (11.27.12)
You might be wiser to consider Lord Cardigan and the ill-fated Charge of the Light Brigade in the Crimean War of the 1850's. Far more appropriate for you since you appear to be stuck in the 19th century.
58. #57. "Palestinians" would be shellacked in the charge.
Chaim ,   Israel   (11.27.12)
What you fail to understand is that in a modern "charge of the light brigade", the "Palestinian" poseurs would be the ones shellacked. At least those dumb enough to try to take on the I.D.F.
59. Strong Nation
Zsolt ,   Wanganui,NZ   (11.28.12)
The article ignores the fact that apart from Jordan and Egypt none of the other Arab states accept Israel's right to exists, and there is a growing number of other countries also questioning this right. Apart from a strong military Israel has to project a strong, internal, independent national unity, mutual guarantee not leaving any doubt in anyone that this nation has the right to exist. Through this Israel could become a positive example instead of scapegoat.
60. Impossible to "win" the situation-only to "manage" it
Alan ,   SA   (11.28.12)
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