Opinion
Israeli society oppresses women
Sami Michael
Published: 07.12.12, 00:32
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64 Talkbacks for this article
31. Sounds like Sami Michael does not live in Israel
Brian Cohen ,   Judean Peoples Front   (12.07.12)
I don't know where Sami Michael lives, but it certainly does not sound like he lives in Israel. Any outsider reading this would conclude that: -there are no women in the Knesset -there are no women academics in Israel -there are no businesswomen in Israel -there are no women in the army doing anything other than cooking, washing, or getting raped -women in Israel are forced to wear veils and are not allowed to be seen in public. And, of course, in all this criticism there is not a single mention of the great progress that has been made in Israel, the recognition of the people who have worked long and hard to reform Israeli society to protect women's rights and to advance their position in society. No, for this politically incorrect Sami Michael it all comes down again to "the occupation". This is a sad statement of how pathetically low ACRI has sunk - it no longer protects Israeli's civil rights, but spends most of its efforts on Palestinians and African infiltrators. ACRI thinks that someone "ending the occupation" and absorbing 100,000 refugees annually will cure the evils in our society. It won't. It just shows that ACRI is not paying attention to the citizens of Israel who do indeed need to improve the status of women, get equal pay for work of equal value, empower impoverished people to get out of poverty and most of all protect the human rights and civil rights of Israeli citizens who are attacked by Palestinian enemies. It's time for ACRI to pro-actively stand up for the rights of Israelis, not foreigners. Until it does, we can only look on in bewilderment as to why they are not doing their job and fulfilling their mission.
32. its not oppression its pallywood
zionist forever   (12.07.12)
This is not some cruel form of oppression of women thats unique to Israel Issues like pay and workplace opportunities are equal opportunities issues ( not oppression ) that exist worldwide so why is Israel the great oppressor of women? Until I read the authors name I thought it was written by mad Merav Micheli because its the sort of rubbish she comes out with. The cruel thing here is that Ynet chose to print this rubbish, that reads like a Pallywood production.
33. Stalinist Sami Michael suddenly concerned about "oppression"
Jail Communists ,   Haifa   (12.07.12)
But he has never seen any oppression committed by Communists or Arabs!!
34. # 31
Sagi   (12.07.12)
Every mighty oak started as a tiny acorn.
35. The Haridi are not Israel
Norman Gellman ,   Rehovot   (12.07.12)
This author is simply befuddled or extremely confused. The Haridi, a extremist religious sect and a minority , are not Israel. All the author has to do is look around the real world.
36. wrong about divorce in israel
male agun ,   jerusalem   (12.07.12)
for a man to get divorced in religious court, the woman needs to accept the get after the man gives it. there are roughly equal amounts fo women who refuse to agree to accept the divorce as men who agree to give it according to stats.
37. America: anti-Liberal=racism; Israel: anti-Liberal=chauvinis
American-Israeli Jew ,   Israel   (12.07.12)
Liberal tactic of smearing moderates are the same everywhere -- they realize that it continues to persuade the ignorant masses. The enemy is ignorance and the solution is education, especially in sciences, logic and economics.
38. The need for such an article...
Bertram ,   London, UK   (12.07.12)
...is confirmed by the majority of the talkbacks here. We should all be grateful to those individuals and organisations seeking to challenge the smug self-satisfaction of those who point the finger at all those countries where things are so much worse. Tyrannical and totalitarian societies pose issues of quite a different order but, at the same time, for democracies to survive and grow there must be constant vigilance. Make no mistake, patriarchy remains, to a greater or lesser extent, in nearly all societies - a real test both for men and women.
39. Nice pot!
.   (12.07.12)
The author smoked something really good and started his "violent" speech for women's right. As if he woke up just now and has discovered the completely new problem nobody's ever seen. My question is which pot was that? And if I speak like this will all women love me?
40. #34 - might oak?
Brian Cohen ,   Judean Peoples Front   (12.07.12)
Unfortunately ACRI is a rotten acorn so it won't grow until it cleans off the fungus and politically incorrect rot that is hindering its growth. Israel is indeed a might oak and is still growing. We still have a long way to go, but Sami Michael is obsessed with isolated incidents of a few whacko haredi men being stupid. I invite any womens' rights advocate to get on 99% of the public buses in Israel. Nobody gives a damn if you're a woman or man or Jew or Arab - that is the Israeli reality, not Sami Michael's dream world where imaginary Israeli women are oppressed in public places. Yes thee is indeed a problem. No, Israeli society is not the nightmare he describes. Shame on him, sitting in the grown expecting to grow into a mighty oak. He needs water and fertilizer, and yes, that means an acorn grows through shit before it becomes a mighty oak. Sami Michael has to shake off the shit and realize that Israeli society needs to be tweaked and steered in the right direction - it is NOT the phallo-centric ayatollaland that he describes.
41. Bertie #38 - ditto for the UK, of course
Brian Cohen ,   Judean Peoples Front   (12.07.12)
And how does your homeland rate, matey? My guess is that Israel is far beyond the UK, where you didn't have a woman PM until years after Israel did. Israel needs articles that reflect reality, and we Israelis have seen for years that ACRI is not a civil rights organization, but spends most of its resources fighting for Palestinians and African migrants, not Israelis. One would have thought that ACRI would have jumped all over the UN granting Palestine non-member state status, and immediately demanded that Palestinian leaders be put on trial at the ICC for their war crimes. After decades of human rights abuses carried out by Palestinians against Israeli civilians, ACRI still doesn't believe that it has to protect Israel citizens from Palestinian attacks - and that is the main reason why the vast majority of Israelis have little or no respect for ACRI.
42. Bitter woman
Sarit ,   Tel Aviv   (12.07.12)
This article must have been written by a woman who is bitter abour her miserable life and taking it out on the rest of society. Give me a break lady!
43. Indeed the scales are tipping dangerously to the other side.
nibor ,   israel   (12.07.12)
Discrimination is big in this society, in subtle ways too. Even though we have women in politics, in order to succeed a woman has to think and behave like a man. Men are often such one-dimensional characters, why would a society thrive on that kind of behavior? It is definitely in the work place, and it is hard to put one's finger on it. Women are dismissed and put down without any effort at all. We have to keep fighting for our place in this world and stop clinging to obsessions with cleanliness and psychological crutches and rationalizations, and it's hard to know how to fight the system. The rules and frameworks are built to keep women out. The "Old boy's" network is so strong among the young. Shocking.
44. Sad reflection
Ferdinand ,   France & Israel   (12.07.12)
It is rather sad that when a man takes a stand for equal rights between men and women, all the comments are hateful and attack the author. The many chaged talkbacks to this article are the best proof that Israel really does have a problem with women's rights. More worrying, it's a problem that didn't exist before but that is increasing every year now.
45. #28 Since women are superiors
Freddy ,   Jerusalem, Israel   (12.07.12)
and make better decisions, according to you, presumably you favor replacing men with women in religious courts. So why not say so openly?
46. Urinals in women's bathrooms, NOW!
Sarah Mizrachi ,   Tel Aviv   (12.07.12)
Golda had one. So does Tzipi, Limor and Shelly. I had mine installed last week and I'm free, free, free at last! See you at the rally later today. You can't miss me - I'll be the tall, attractive transgender marching between Sami and Yair Lapid.
47. Men are responsible for their own reactions
Esther ,   Abroad   (12.07.12)
It is about time also religious men start to take responsibility for their own feelings, reactions, thoughts and actions! If a man gets into trouble because I, a woman, is present or sing so that he can hear it - h e should go away - not I! If religious men have so much trouble being around women, they should stay away. If my being a woman, provokes a man, it is tha man that has a problem and he that must deal with his own problem.
48. Oh, please....
Chaya ,   Bat Yam   (12.07.12)
She's talking about Israel as if it were an Arab country! She should direct her words towards Saudi Arabia.
49. Is this somebody c+ High School term paper
Paul ,   Jerusalem   (12.07.12)
It's inconceivable that when it is so clear from a causal scan of the Internet, how degenerate the world is compared to Israel's gender issues, that such a simple minded article would be published. Come on, this is a joke isn't it?
50. Extremist. ACRI
Ilan   (12.07.12)
Clearly there is plenty of room for improvement in Israel but oppressing? Is Sami Michael incapable of a measured and sane approach or is that why he is such a good fit for the self styled human rights group that actually encourages violence against Israelis
51. To Brian at No. 41
Bertram ,   London, UK   (12.07.12)
I know you are not the messiah, Brian, but you can read. I particularly mention 'all societies' at No. 21, so I guess that includes the UK. On the other hand, since you are so narrowly focused maybe it is difficult for you to engage with the wider world. Therefore, it would not not matter if ACRI made complete sense on a whole host of issues since, as far as 'Palestinians and African migrants' are concerned, it is not in your view a civil rights organisation. I am what most people commenting on this forum would call a 'leftist' but this has not prevented me from expressing support, where merited, for sound arguments coming from 'rightists'. So, why not argue your position on the issues at hand rather than deviating to the usual rhetoric?
52. female can't be unrestrained
pm ,   india   (12.07.12)
what about women become more assertive once they started earning more income than men and even worse wive's family members started abusing her husband to support her arrogant behaviour?i've had a personal experience of my ex wife what i;ve abovesaid which lead to family disintegration only after she started earning more than me.
53. The author is a man and he's Jewish!
Ron's Reading Help ,   Kfar Saba, Israel   (12.07.12)
...For all the previous talkbackers who apparently can't read and immediately jump to the conclusion that anyone whose opinion on womens' rights they don't like must be either a woman or an Arab. Read the article and Google his name, if you don't believe it. And, besides, women really get lower wages for the same job - that's a fact and it applies to Western countries as well. Plus, why the need to point out that the situation in Israel is better than in surrounding Arab Third-World type countries? Are they what we want to be compared with?
54. Michaeli: "Today I am a Marxist"
Jake B. ,   Cleveland, OH   (12.07.12)
Would someone please post the IRS 990 form of ACRI along with Sami Michael's salary? Michael is a political straw. They don't get much Left than this. Look him up on Wikipedia.
55. i wonder what the authors views would be if he was a woman ?
zionist forever   (12.07.12)
56. all correct
nomi ,   israel   (12.07.12)
all those earlier comments. you havent got a clue. israel is sexist and everything sami says is true -guess that is why he is speakng for the israeli human rights group and you arent. married women can not get abortions without going to s special advisory board , violence within domestic relationships is a huge problem in israel and semi acceptable througout many social groups religious/secular/ jewish non jewish. i think that you guys think that by just aimlessly attacking \anyone that says anything negative about the course of israeli society you are being 'pro israel' you arent you are being immature. i\this is a developing society which needs this dialogue so that there will be a better democracy with greater human rights for everyone.
57. Misogyny
david ,   london england   (12.08.12)
In the same way that Israeli arrogance and sense of superiority is rooted in the racial self-worship of Talmudic Judaism and the notion that they are chosen, holy and better than the gentiles, so is the mysogyny and contempt for women. The racism, misogyny and homophobia of Talmudic Orthodox Judaism permeates Israeli consciousness, including the non-observant Jews.
58. Bertie - what a strange view you have from the UK
Brian Cohen ,   Judean Peoples Front   (12.08.12)
What's the "usual rhetoric"? I clearly state that womens rights is indeed a serious issue in Israel - and I live here and I've been active all my adult life in what you'd call "feminist issues" (and I'm a guy). We do indeed have serious problems of racism and discrimination that ACRI must deal with, and it does NOT. I engage with ACRI members directly and do what I can to influence them, but they are dominated by politically incorrect newagecrap and unfortunately they do NOT deal with civil rights for all Israelis. You don't know that living in the UK as I'm suspicious that you've never talked directly with anybody from ACRI, while I have over the past decades. ACRI chooses to not deal with the violation of Israelis civil rights by Palestinians claiming that it is a foreign source and they only deal with internal Israeli problems caused by Israelis (aka the government). If 3 million Israelis including 1.5 million women are terrorized by Palestinians and forced out of work and school, they say it ain't their problem. If hundreds of Israelis are murdered and thousands wounded and maimed, ACRI surprisingly does not see that as a civil or human rights issue and simply dismisses the issue as not part of their mission. And if 99% of Israeli women are not harassed, ACRI does not recognized that and only deals with the exceptions to the rule and NOT with changing the rules to ensure that the 1% are protected. Yes, there are indeed serious issues on womens rights that includes equal pay for work of equal value (see my postings above), discrimination in the workplace and in education and in health (see the current nurses strike that I support but doubt you're aware of), violence in the home, etc. Sami M's diatribe above is all criticism and no tachlis (go learn the word, it's an important one in Israel) - I want to know how ACRI is going to change and improve the status of women in Israel. Any bozo can spew a list of complaints, and I am disgusted and disappointed that for his high position Sami Michael does not give an agenda of pro-active steps to take but instead just bellyaches. As a foreigner living abroad, you most likely have no clue as to the real civil rights issues in Israel (too much police power, no constitution, etc). For example, I'll bet you didn't know that arrested suspects in Israel do NOT have the right to legal counsel. YOu didn't hear Sami Michael say anything about such a basic civil right and ACRI simply doesn't bother to fight for that - they prefer to deal with issues affecting the Palestinians and illegal immigrants. Bertie, get off your high horse and understand that here in Israel we Israelis know the score and you simply can't judge from the UK. Yea, I'm hard on ACRI because they've been screwing up for years and don't bother dealing with the civil rights of all Israels. That's a fact, and no, I don't expect you to know that in the UK and you shouldn't chuck pebbles at my windows from thousands of km away.
59. Exposes disgrace of Israeli "human rights" movement.
Chaim ,   Israel   (12.08.12)
This ludicrous article, which depicts Israel as if it were Iran, exposes the disgrace of the Israeli "human rights" movement. These fools make up whatever nonsense suits them and use it to demonize Israel.
60. To No. 58
Bertram ,   London, UK   (12.09.12)
Brian, what a strange view you have of 'foreigners'. If we were to generalise your approach then only nationals of their own societies could comment on their internal affairs. We could not legitimately comment on the lack of civil rights, say in China, because we were not Chinese. We could not legitimately have commented on apartheid because we were not South African. And so on. I have no agenda regarding, ACRI, one way or the other. I accept that you have first-hand knowledge of ACRI. I do not but you will note, however, that my postings were not about ACRI or even specifically about Israel, (although I probably have a little more knowledge about Israel that you give me credit for). You strike me as someone who is so bound up in the narrow context of Israel that you fail to make the broader connections. As for me, I have no illusions about the UK. It is a country, despite improvements made over the last decades, still beset by patriarchy, racism, inequalities, and the legacy of empire. But these issues are global and demand that we take a hard look both at ourselves and at others. If I am on a high horse, Brian, you are there with me.
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