Jewish Scene
Women of the Wall pray for equality
Associated Press
Published: 16.12.12, 07:18
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40 Talkbacks for this article
1. Next great challenge - Men's WC !
2Mad ,   גולה בצרפת   (12.16.12)
2. Ultra orthadox never heard of religious freedom
Haim ,   TA   (12.16.12)
Everyone is entitled to worship or not in the way they see fitting. Who are the ultra orthadox to dictate to others? Religious freedom for all. Well done sisters keep it up.
3. This is Israel's way of dealing with freedom of religion
Gal ,   Israel   (12.16.12)
Arresting those women who want to practice their believes
4. They rejected a reasonable alternative
Adam ,   Jerusalem, Israel   (12.16.12)
They have a location along the walls of the Temple Mount to pray as they see fit. Instead of accepting a perfectly reasonable location (and actually one that many people find more powerful than the area of the Western Wall), they insist on dictating to others. I used to be very active in the Reform movement, but these people used to annoy me to no end. They are looking to make a statement, not pray. The whole Temple Mount is holy.
5. The husbands of these 'righteous' Women Off the Wall
Ganit   (12.16.12)
should start wearing kippa and prayer shawl. These women should keeping Shabbat, Kosher and Taharat Mishapaha properly with her entire family and stop the incitement.
6. This is grandstanding...not equal rights. I have no problem
EST ,   Miami USA   (12.16.12)
I pray at the Wall every time I visit....I have no idea why these women have decided they want to be just like men...G_d made them female so why are they trying to show off their masculine side???? and I am not orthodox. I just don't have a desire to behave like a man...This is just plain foolishness and the desire to rile up the more orthodox and conservative members of the yishuv! Shame on them!
7. Haim from Tel Aviv
Dovid ,   Haifa   (12.16.12)
thought you hated being Jewish?
8. Is it law or tradition?
Mark ,   London, UK   (12.16.12)
Is it specifically prohibited for women to wear a tallit, or hold the torah scrolls? It's not as though these women are bringing ham and cheese sandwiches to the wall plaza. I would be very wary about replicating the Shia/Sunni split in Judaism.
9. #8 If these Women Off the Wall were truly righteous
Ganit ,   HG   (12.16.12)
they would know that just like men are forbidden to wear clothing of women so are women forbidden to dress in men's apparel. It's men who must wear a kippa and women must cover their hair completely. Righteous women would know that kol isha is prohibbited. Women in state of nidda should not hold a Torah scroll. Obviously these are not righteous women just out to incite.
10. A process. Not a coup.
Seth Greenberg ,   Raanana   (12.16.12)
This show is not about Jewish law or tradition. It is about respect. These women are serious about expressing their Jewish identity and demand respect for their interpretation. . However, they seem not to be concerned with respecting the desire of the men and women who worship at the Kotel in THEIR way, the way these women's grandmothers and their ancestors before them worshiped. . The fact that this is news indicates that the actions of these women are intended to draw attention. When people pick a social issue and claim it is a religious issue, they muddy the waters for all involved. There is no question that the Women of the Wall should be treated with respect. However, they need to act with mutual respect in mind, as well. . No revolution starts at the king's door. They start in the streets. If women want to be able to wear tallit and tfillin in public (which is permitted, though not required, by Jewish law), they need to initiate the revolution with education and an attempt to integrate in the more more modern Orthodox communities. Once that precedent has been established, move forward. The Kotel is not the place to start. It is simply disruptive. The current campaign is reminiscent of Peace Now. Sure, we want it, but we, for the most part are a bit more pragmatic, realizing that it takes a process, not a coup.
11. #8
Dovid ,   Haifa   (12.16.12)
is not law or Halacha. If a woman is nidduch like bleedng from her period then she should NOT tuch the Torah. As far as wearing teffilin and tallit... they are simply exempt from that mitzvah...
12. Jews for Jesus next
Dov ,   Holon   (12.16.12)
I am a secular however I know what Judaism is. Judaism has strict rules. I choose to pick and choose the rules since I am secular. This is the beauty of our religion that we have rules and we choose how religious we want to be. I love being not religious however I know what a Jew is meant to do. To try and change the religion and it's rules is ridiculous!. Next we'll see Messianic Jews demanding the right to pray to Yeshu and carry crosses and idols to the wall. There is no end to this nonsense!
13. These women dont normally cover their hair even
Jrebecca ,   modiin   (12.16.12)
There are things I dont like about how the kottel plaza is run, but these women are just being dafka. They dont daven every morning with Kippot and Talasim. They dont even cover their hair. It's all for show, and that annoys me. The begging at the wall has been stopped and so should these women. #5 has the right idea.
14. # 1 R U kidding? Shewee invented in UK
Norbus ,   Jerusalem   (12.16.12)
you could make the argument that if the creator sought equality, he'd have given women similar anatomy to men Goes against a 4000 year plus tradition. That is the point and nothing else
15. #5
Sean ,   Toronto, Canada   (12.16.12)
I do wear a kippah and tallit. My home is shomer Shabbat. My kitchen is kosher. My wife goes to mikveh. She wears tallit and tefillin. She also knows more than enough to tell anyone here that divrei Torah ainan mikablin tumah - Torah can never become impure. All of the idiotic laws mentioned that a menstruant cannot touch a Torah are pure folk custom. I am a proud supporter of Women of the Wall! Sean
16. 1
zionist forever   (12.16.12)
Women of the WC want urinals .. equal rights in all areas you know.
17. its feminist politics not prayer to them
zionist forever   (12.16.12)
For this group its not about religion its feminism, Women of the Wall is a feminist group who wants religion to adopt the feminist equality values. If its ok for a man to wear a kips or read from the Torah then a woman should also have that right. The Kotel is the most holy place where Jews can go pray so in this case its only right that it should be run according to orthodox values. The women are still allowed to go pray at the plaza but they just have to accept certain reasonable restrictions like all other women do. Considering its such a holy place and a major tourist attraction it should not be allowed to be turned into a stage for feminist confrontations. While this group want to secularise the plaza there are plenty of women who want things to remain the way they are so why are WOW more important than the women who don't want change? Attempts have even been made to cater for WOW and the other liberals & reformers by giving them Robinsons Arch to pray in their way but they keep coming back to the plaza because to them its about politics and not prayer.
18. WOW don't want to pray they want political statements
zionist forever   (12.16.12)
Women of the Wall are not interested in religion, they are feminists and trying to introduce feminist values into religion and then pressure the rest of us into accepting them. WOW want the Western Wall plaza turned liberal but plenty of women don't so why should WOW be the ones to dictate terms? What happens when another group comes along wanting more changes, if we are willing to make changes for WOW why not for others, where is the red line? Efforts have been made to accommodate WOW by letting them to pray their way at Robinsons Arch which is still part the Kotel but despite being given their own spot its the plaza they keep coming back to because this is a political issue & not about prayer.
19. The Wall is considered like and Orthodox synagogue
Baruch ,   Boston, USA   (12.16.12)
These women are not denied the freedom to do what they want elsewhere. They have temples. They have homes. They can walk the streets with a kippah. Doing what they do at the Wall is like doing it in a frum synagogue. They should respect it, but they respect nothing except themselves. They really want to invade all Jewish religious places with their irreverent form of Judaism, but I think that the demographics are against them. Their goal is really radical feminism not more spirituality.
20. 'Find a way to share it'
Sherlock Holmes ,   London England   (12.16.12)
As Women at the Wall well know the Western Wall has several sections, one called the Western Wall Plaza [sounds like a hotel] and another known as Robinson's Arch. The second area is specifically set aside for groups such as Women at the wall who reject the Minhag Jerusalem. There is a Torah prohibition on crossdressing [Deuteronomy 22.5] which is why some women object to other women wrapping themselves in men's tallisim. Throughout the Diaspora there are separate sites for Orthodox and non-Orthodox services, so the Western Wall is no different. Incidentaly there are Halachic opinions that do allow women to lain from a Torah scroll for other women and to wear tefillin in private with some conditions attached.
21. If Jewish women cannot
John ,   Hamilton, ON   (12.17.12)
If Jewish women cannot find equality in the Jewish State of Israel, what chance is there for Muslim and Christian Israelis to live in equality. Zip?
22. 20
zionist forever   (12.16.12)
The problem is WOW are a feminist organisation trying to bring feminism into religion. This isn't about religion otherwise they would be satisfied with Robinsons Arch but they insist on coming to the hotel Western Wall Plaza to make trouble and make the headlines because they are a feminist political movement not a group of woman wanting to pray.
23. Amazing inaccuracies
Brana Lobel ,   Israel   (12.16.12)
It is amazing to read the large number of inaccurate opinions about tallitot, torah scrolls, and tefillin. Also what is the leeway or parameters for a woman covering her head. It is documented that women wore tefillin on the streets in the Talmudic era. The problem is as one poster noted that the allowing of women to perform a spectrum of holy activities should start in places where they are allowed or welcomed, not initially at the Kotel. However since Judaism at this point in Israel seems to be all about confrontation, this reasonable approach is unlikely.
24. I wear Kippah & Tallit at the wall with no problem...
Israeli Woman ,   Israel   (12.16.12)
I never come in to the Western Wall area with any disrespect for anyone else there. I arrive quietly wearing an ordinary hat and a four cornered garment with tsitsit. I remove my outer head covering when I am near the Wall, I pray, and when I am done I replace my hat. I don't understand what these women are going on about... perhaps were they to remember why we wear kippot then they might find their humility. (hint: we wear kippot to remember that the Shehina is ever above us)
25. To # 6 In your country men and women are equal
Stan ,   Israel   (12.16.12)
I suppose that if you got on a bus in Israel, and a religious man told you not to sit next to him, but to find a seat at the back of the bus, you would consider that OK. "...show off their masculine side???" Lady this is the 21st C. If I sometimes cook or wash the dishes it does not mean that I am Gay. There are growing numbers of women CEO's and other senior positions. It's time that the Religious authorities in Israel get their act together and recognise the Conservative and Reform communities in Israel
26. To # 8 Too late Mark
Stan ,   Israel   (12.16.12)
As is the case with Islam, Judaism is becoming more and more extreme. Boys and girls no longer have joint activities in Bnei Akiva. There are places in Israel where women are not allowed to use the same sidewalk as men. Separate seating on buses. More and more incidents when religious soldiers refuse to hear women sing. There are even Taliban type communities of Jews in Israel. Where women are covered up, face and all.
27. 25
zionist forever   (12.17.12)
The Kotel is like an orthodox synagogue so there are certain things your not allowed to do. You go to an orthodox synagogue in most countries if a woman walked in and put on a talit she would be asked to take it off or leave out of respect for others, its not just the Kotel where woman have to obey the customs of orthodox Judaism. Robinsons Arch was set aside for WOW and other liberals so its not as if they have nowhere to go pray and they are ask allowed to go to the plaza if they respect the rules of the site. Fact is they come to the plaza because they are feminist movement and they want to get into trouble to highlight their cause. They are nothing but political activists not righteous women who just want to pray.
28. To#25. You are absolutely wrong!!!
EST ,   Miami USA   (12.17.12)
I find Israel offers equal rights ... to all! I spend several months in Israel every year and I use public transportation...yes, a haredi once asked me to move and I replied, "No, thank you. You find somewhere else to sit." Not a problem with that... Israel is one of the very few countries in the world where CEO's and politicians...female CEO's and politicians have long been recognized and afforded equal rights, as opposed to the US and other Western countries...so I have no idea where are you coming from...Obviously, not reality. I am not even orthodox by the orthodox community standard....I'm just myself...and I still contend that what these women are doing is just grandstanding!
29. they'd give away the Kotel
avi ,   nyc   (12.17.12)
these irreligious women just want to destroy the patriarchy and are irreligious. they would give the Kotel to arabs, and are against reestablishing the Korbon. If they were truly observant, theyd go to the Temple Mount
30. #8
avi ,   nyc   (12.17.12)
many of these women and their supporters eat ham and are opposed to the korbon and never cared when the arabs controlled the wall and would give it away
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