..Israeli taxpayer, but doesn't want to risk protecting Eretz Yisrael.
My ancestor the Gaon of Vilna z'l would be spinning were these 'parasites' to succeed in their mutiny.
2. Army physical
Did it really not occur to the IDF that haredi men might be shocked to have women medics examining their 'private parts'? Was the IDF trying to provoke a hostile response re-enforce its anti-Haredi views? The former Ponovez Rosh Yeshivah Rav Shach ztl flew the Israeli flag and had a son who was a career IDF officer. The IDF is wasting a lot of good will by being hostile to Haredi students.
Sherlock Holmes ,
3. Vizhnitzer Hasidus
Although I am Litvish [Lithuanian] I have years of contact with Vizhnitz and the previous Vizhnitzer Rebbe ztl was the most moderate and decent of people imaginable. It's a tragedy that his successor has seen a situation that calls for a confrontation with the state. Now that Tal has expired we need a new law in place to deal with the national service issue in a non-confrontational manner.
4. The haredi question.
What to do ? I have no idea, but there is a historical example about soluting a similar phenomenon. Before the 1910 revolution China was practically ruled by mandarins. And they influenced the majority of the population, following the traditions, very close- - theoretically - to the haredim. They insisted to wear ancient dresses and hair style, pigtail.The first law of the new chinese goverment was to ban pigtails and policemen cut all on the steets. In the old newsreel we can see wailing chinese men, as the police cut their pigtail. I recommend this way to the new, maybe revolutionary government of Israel. Instead pigtails payesim, of course.
5. If the gov't wants haredim in the IDF
the entire IDF has to be run by orthodox Rabbis. There's no other way for haredim to join such an immoral anti-Torah G-dless army whether they're learning all day or not, doesn't make a difference. It's the same reason haredim have their own schools and don't attend public schools.
Isn't it enough that this government caused thousands of Yemenite and Sephardic orthodox children to become irreligious, do they want to secular all orthodox Jews? Well, today's Rabbis are a bit more powerful than they were 60 years ago.
6. #1 - Lucky Poles ,...
It's the zionist's problem now ;) ,...
7. 1 Mark,More important for you...
Would your ancestor be proud of you?
8. I just don't understand the Hasidim/Haredim
For centuries, Jews lived like most other peoples. They wore the clothes of their time, worked, and often served in the militaries of their host nations. Jews were among the best doctors in Medieval Europe, they worked in banking and finance, and were businesspeople in Europe. In the Arab and Muslim world, they were merchants and craftsmen.
The whole super-strict Hasidim/Haredim thing (no looking at women, black clothing, etc), is a recent invention. The Hasidim came about in the 18th century as a counter to assimilation. A Jew from 500 years ago, or from the Second Temple period, would be utterly amazed and confused by their way of life. It is not how Jews ever lived until fairly recently.
Now, in Israel, the threat of assimilation is gone, so why do they have to keep living like this when it's not even commanded by Jewish law?
9. A simple solution
Surely it must be possible to designate in a law that the fifty or sixty students a year that the country might conceivably "need" could do their studies as natioanal service - whilst the rest of them be given the simple choice of signing on one of two forms - either an enlistment form agreeing to fulfill their civic duty and serve in the army or a waiver form waiving their right to any national insurance allowances for life for themselves and for their unwanted offspring.
10. Reply to number 4
You have a limited knowledge of Israeli history. The secular Zionists did all in their power to destroy the ancient Jewish lifestyle of the various groups of Sephardim who arrived in Israel, including putting their children out for adoption by 'superior' Westernised Ashnkenazim and forcibly cutting off boys' peyos. The ultra-secular Left did all you could imagine to wipe out Judaism -- and some you cannot imagine -- but in the end it is the ultra-secular who have lost power and traditional Jews of many varieties have continued to increase. Israel's history is the revelation of Divine Providence, and you are not on the winning side!
Sherlock Holmes ,
11. Reply to Mark in Lodz. Vilna Gaon
If you look a bit more into your ancestor's outlook you would know that the Gra opposed Chasidism in its entirety. The 'Lithuanian' Haredim tend to follow the Gra on many matters, which is why UTJ has two political parties -- Degel for Litvish Yidden and Agudas Yisroel for the Chasidim. It was the Lithuanian Gaon the Chazon Ish who negotiated with Ben Gurion the status quo agreement that exempts yeshivah students from army service.
Sherlock Holmes ,
12. Its a Mitzva to do army service.
Jews over the age of 20 were commanded to do army service, its in black and white in the oldest story ever told the Torah.
If they don't want to get naked in front of woman doctors, if that's the only reason then the army has to deal with that problem, there are enough male doctors.
I believe this is just another excuse.
I say put this Rabbi behind bars.
I just wonder how many of these young men go into the Internet, masturbate and look at women on the streets and do other things they should not do.
If you ask me they are either cowards or whimps.
If my son with a kippa on his head can do his army service there is no reason why they can't.
13. Hager, why do you hate Israel?
and its citizens, including women and children?
why are you still in Israel and do not live in Iran, or in Las Vegas?
Susya Bar Dror ,
14. the rabbi is in his right
if that is what the rabbi believes he is in his right to say so.
But it should also be the right of the state to cut all funding and welfare payments immediately.
Since also the state has the responsibility for all of Israel.
15. #11 Thanks, Sherlock, for showing me the ways
16. #7 Ora...Lamentably not....
17. #6 Wrong, snag.... Today's Poland very much
seeks Jewish brains and money....
Will take a while.....
18. The Rebbe says he's not afraid of jail
If he's counseling people to break the law, he belongs in jail. Rather than opposing enlistment, he and other Rebbes should be talking to the IDF, trying to work out a way to make enlistment work for everybody.
19. 18 YES Natan,the Rabbis and ...
the leaders of the IDF need to work together. Soldiers need CLEAR orders in accordance with their conscience,in order to be able to fight in full force, with all their heart and their soul.
And so, being unbeatable with G-Ds help.
20. 16 Mark, Awareness is the first step..
in the right direction.
21. Simple stop all payments and take their children
Simple really stop all payments to their yeshiva. Put out an arrest warrent for them. Revoke the right of their wives to a exemption as well if they refuse to serve Take their children into custody as a fugitive obviously cannot take care of a child.
Once all their children have been adopted by non haredi families it will be a one generation problem that will end soon.
22. 21 What kind of human being are u?
23. Deport all traitors
Rabbi Hager and his ilk should be deported to country of origin if any of them were not born in Israel. This goes for leftist traitors as well. We are too small to afford this kind of nonsense. I ask Hager this: Why is it o.k. for secular Jews to fight and die for his safety and security, while it is not o.k. for his Hareidim to fight and die for their own lives? In plain English, R. Hager and R. Auerbach are willing to fight the Arabs to the last secular.
What do Hareidim do to help develop the nation of Israel? How many Nobel prizes have they won?
As for their argument that they pray for our salvation, I say how much good did all that praying do during the 3rd Reich? Lots of Hareidim died in the Holocaust, not just seculars. God (I left the "o" in to bug the frummies) helps those who help themselves. If you want me to make aliyah, do the following:
1. Kick out all lefty professors from all Israeli universities.
2. Exile all frummies who vandalize property or refuse to obey the law.
3. Punish all Arabs who commit violence against Jews, whether the result of that violence is lethal or non-lethal.
4. See that new olim are given every chance to integrate into Israeli society; jobs, language training, etc. Order all Israelis to
accept olim and not to denigrate them. (Harder to achieve than to say, I know).
Last but not least: How long would the Hareidim last if the Arabs launched a full-scale attack against
Israel and the seculars weren't there to help defend them? About five seconds?