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Feiglin: Accept disobedience or forgive Eichmann     Tzvika Brot
1. Slipper slope
Then what about Leftists who refuse to serve in Judea and Samaria???
Chaya ,   Bat Yam   (12.25.12)
2. He has a point here !.
I Quote - The principle is that a person must be able to draw a moral line for himself. 'We must reserve a place of honor for conscientious disobedience' Comment - Yes ! - There must be Freedom to Heed the First Comandment of HASHEM, to Love HIM as according to Ones whole personal Capacity. Arn.Sweden.
Arn. ,   Sweden.   (12.25.12)
3. Likud is sweating bullets
Me thinks the Likud and Netanyahu, in particular, is sweating bullets from Naphtali Bennett's constant rise in mandates. Even if Bennett doesn't win, Bayit HaYehudi will be a force to be reckoned with in the next government. The Likud does not like this, so they are throwing mud on Bennett, which is going to backfire in their faces. Bennett, chazak ve' amatz!!!!
Mitchell Cohen ,   Gush Etzion, Israel   (12.25.12)
4. Feiglin is 100% right
We especially the Jewish nation may never allow itself the 'luxury' of "I was just following orders". This issue when argued are mostly hypocritical, for they dont have a problem with a "conscientious objector" from the left. That individual has to sit in goal for the mandated period. Same if one on the right refuses an order. But to black list this issue with a wide brush is wrong and most morally wrong especially for us Jews. Thank you M Feiglin for standing up to the truth and not bend to political correctness which Bennet ultimately did. Shows who has real leadership qualities.
Volvi   (12.25.12)
5. then it's fine for some of us to doge National Service?
Northerner   (12.25.12)
6. #1
I agree with Feiglin, because the people are smarter than the corrupt politicians. Imagine if IDF soldiers refused Sharon's orders to evacuate Gush Katif until an election or referendum was held. If Sharon received support, the soldiers would follow his lead. If Sharon had been booted out, no Hamas in Gaza, no Grads in Gaza, no PSTD in Sderot, Rishon would be safe. To your question: most Leftists who refused to served in Judea and Samaria spoke to their commander and were released quietly. In some few cases, a person who refused was sent to the brig or jail. The exact same principle should apply to everyone, right or left. However, people like Leftist Yiftah Spector who do not just refuse orders but incite rebellion should be punished seriously.
israel israeli ,   tel aviv   (12.25.12)
7. Please Sir....
I dont want to pay ANY taxes.
Laxman ,   Haifa, Israel   (12.25.12)
8. Bennett and Feiglin are wrong
Both the left, center and right, should all serve in the army and obey the army rules. Should your moral compass tell you not to obey orders, then be willing to pay the price. Go to jail for whatever period the army decides. This is the difference between what Feiglin and Bennett are saying and the reality. Until one or both say it, they are both wrong. It's okay to disobey orders if you are willing to pay the price.
Jerry ,   Jerusalem   (12.25.12)
9. #1 slipper slope response
he most definitely said that concientious objection is not for one stripe or another everyone should do so and be able to pay the price right or left he said so clearly
chaim ,   jlem   (12.25.12)
10. true face
thank you Mr.Feiglin for showing everyone the true face of the Likud. And trying to picture him as an irrelevant radical minority is even more revealing from the Likud side. Because it should be clear that in the end of the day after elections the Likud will court Naftali Bennet to join the coalition.
peter ,   tel aviv   (12.25.12)
11. "fascist" is the wrong characteristic
"Totalitarian" would seem to better the describe the characteristic in either nationalistic Facisim or internationlistic Communisim wherin the freedom of choice by the individual is subservient to that of the will of the state.
Kerwood Derby ,   Frostbite Falls   (12.25.12)
12. Feiglin is obviously right.
He could have skiped the comparition to that nazi ,I donĀ“t want to pronounce the name,but for the rest he is obviously right. Discernment is a must!
Keren ,   IL-BR   (12.25.12)
13. Now do you believe that Feiglin is Fifth Column for Israel B
Neither Feiglin, his supporters, friends, and fellow travelers have any intention of Voting Likud-they push the Likud program further right than it has ever been and vote Israel Beitinu
miki ,   tampa   (12.25.12)
14. I think there is a difference
between killing people to evacuating people of thier houses! How can you compare between these to actions?
Alon ,   Petah TIkva   (12.25.12)
15. Jerry #8: I think you are mistaken.
Someone will correct me if I am wrong. I cannot speak for Feiglin. My guess is he and Bennett are on the same page. I read Bennett saying he would spend time in prison (whatever punishment were meted out) for not obeying orders to forcibly evict Jews from their homes and property as we saw in Gush Katif, Gaza, August 2005.
Steve   (12.25.12)
16. Nr 2.
Subordination in sevice must always be total, but, obediance is always relative. One must Heed HASHEM more than Men. Arn.Sweden.
Arn. ,   Sweden.   (12.25.12)
17. Brilliant point and well stated
Yasher Koach, Moshe Feiglin
Pashuteh Yid   (12.25.12)
18. Feiglin & Bennett
Both should be arrested by the police and charged with treason. Let them both rot in prison, they deserve life sentences.
Mordechai ,   Beit Shemesh   (12.25.12)
19. This argument is simple
those who want a disengagement will condemn the disobedience, those that are repulsed by the thought of giving Arabs Jewish land will support disobedience. Where does Mr. Likud Bibi stand on this? We all know, and that is why as attractive as Feiglin might be, Bibi stands over him with a Sharon-like mentality, that will never win my vote.
Paul ,   Jerusalem   (12.25.12)
20. Completely agree but...
...but what's true for the rightists must be true for the leftists as well. Those who doesn't want to server in Tsahal, or agree to serve, except in the Occupied Territories etc... shouldn't be thrown into jail, according Feiglin.
Jack ,   Europe   (12.25.12)
21. #18
Charged for treason and serve life sentences for what?!?! George Orwell would be proud of you!!!! Feiglin was a captain in the combat engineer corps and Naphtali Bennett has been putting his life on the line for 22 years and in multiple wars for Israel? What have YOU done for Israel lately, Mordechai Paloney in Bet Shemesh?!?!
Mitchell Cohen ,   Gush Etzion, Israel   (12.25.12)
22. #18 B"H ppl like you, without a conscience, are a minority
As is evident from the talkbacks.
AB ,   TheRock   (12.25.12)
23. Disgusting comments coming from Felgin
Felgin comparing a soldier who agrees to evacuate a settlement to a Nazi following Eichman's orders are disgusting and insulting to all professional soldiers and Holocaust survivors. How do you compare a soldier removing people from building for demolition to one put people into gas chambers? I had relatives who were killed by the Nazis and I find that remark disgusting and Felgin should be kicked out of Likud over it. What is the difference between a leftist soldier in refusing to serve because of occupation and a soldier refusing to evacuate a settlement because it conflicts with his personal beliefs ? Bennet may have made this claim because he is a rookie and has even since said that was his opinion as a man but as a politician he cannot encourage such things. Felgin is no rookie, he is not leader of an opposing party, Bennet retracts his statement next day Felgin supports it. The man is going to cost Likud the election if he doesn't shut up then Labor & Meretz can close all the settlements. . I feel sympathy for the individuals who just want to live in Judea & Samaria and see settlements as their homes despise the radicals who want to build just for the sake of building and then treat these buildings like temples, it verges on idolatry. This isn't even about religious beliefs its obsessiveness.
zionist forever   (12.25.12)
24. Thoreau and Civil Disobedience
I suggest that anyone who wishes to take this matter seriously, study a bit of the history and philosophy of civil disobedience. I recommend Henry David Thoreau's eloquent work, "Civil Disobedience" (1849), a classic in English language political philosophy, available on the Internet. The main point for the present discussion is that whoever conscientiously disobeys law or orders must be willing to accept the legal punishment. Otherwise it is not conscientious disobedience but simple criminality. Best to all, Dr Yeruham (Frank) Leavitt Senior Lecturer Emeritus Faculty of Health Sciences, Ben Gurion University, Beer Sheva, and resident , Kiriat Arba, Hebron
Dr Yeruham Leavitt ,   Kiriat Arba, ISRAEL   (12.25.12)
25. If you liked the results of Gaza disengagement,
You'll love Bennett's plan for disengaging from Areas A and B. Just imagine trying to protect that border!
Tracy W   (12.25.12)
26. Bennett retracted - he said soldiers had to obey orders
So much for a moral stand against expulsion orders. The campaign has hardly started and he already retracted on a basic, fundamental principle. Bennett is doing from the outside what Feiglin is doing from inside of Likud - taking votes away from smaller right wing parties.
Tracy W   (12.25.12)
27. #23: "Zionist?" Forever? Really?
People make comparisons to the Germany and the Holocaust all the time; get used to it. No historical comparison is perfect. Often (though not perfect) historical comparisons are useful. You are full of yourself. You haven't impressed me with your sanctimonious or feigned indignation, nor with your question, "What is the difference between a leftist soldier in refusing to serve because of occupation and a soldier refusing to evacuate a settlement because it conflicts with his personal beliefs ?" Personal beliefs? The one is of questionable morality and the other is wholly consistent with Jewish law. Do your homework. Read Moses. Read the Torah. You are not well informed. Sorry, you aren't.
Steve   (12.25.12)
28. Eichamnn initiated did not follow orders
Eichmann was not an example of a citizen FOLLOWING immoral orders. Feiglin's comparison to serving Tzhal in the West Bank is just not appropriate. It was proven that Eichmann intervened, went beyond orders, inventing devious ways to further the NAZI muderous cause...to the extent that Eichmann disrupted and, diverted German military train traffic... to insure that freight cars were alloted to delivering Jewish men, women and children to Nazi mass murder facilities. moshe
moshe ,   Tivon, Israel   (12.25.12)
29. 27
There is no Jewish law that says we must build settlements in Judea & Samaria. Its land that was given but there is nothing that says obsessively build there, the Negev & Galilee are part of that promised land but nobody is rushing to build there even though its just as much Jewish land as Judea & Samaria. I have no problem with the settlement movement providing they are for homes not politics or to feed an obsession. Felgin and the others radicals just want to build for the sake of building. Doesn't even matter if there is nobody to live in them all that matters is the building and that is like idol worship. The leftist draft dodgers are just the same as the radical right who are obsessed with building because both are refusing to either serve or follow orders because it conflicts with their personal opinions and you cannot have an army where soldiers are entitled to choose what orders they obey and which they refuse.
zionist forever   (12.25.12)
30. Tracy #25
I agree with you, the entire "West Bank," Areas A, B and C should be annexed by Israel. As to the smaller parties, why aren't they getting any attention in the news? National Union has been a consistently principled smaller party. Why are't we reading about them, even on right-leaning news sites?
Steve   (12.25.12)
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