1. By pure logic, trampling on individual freedom is less grave
than not obeying an imaginary decree?!
2. Well im gay , have a wonderful life and 2 children
What a load of old crock. His Royal holliness is tottaly clueless. Being gay isnt a life choice it is someones sexual orientation and nothing is going to change that. You cant make a gay man straight as you cant make a straight man gay. I and my partner of 10 years have a wonderfull life thankyou very much for your concern. We are very happy and have 2 wonderfull children. It truelly amazes me when people such as this so called rabbi, lecture to others on something he is tottaly clueless about. If hes looking for moral turpitude i suggest he tries the prisons they are full of straight religious prisoners. Take Ben izri as a prime example. Hypocracy knows no limits i see
3. Gays can raise families via surrogates and adoption
Gays can have families via surrogates and should be welcomed and even encouraged to do so. In my opinion, the sexuality of a person is actually one of the least important aspects of an individual, and when the rabbis understand this, it will become a non-issue.
Also, "very miserable" is a human condition that is found across all groups and types, and not just gays. I'm sure that there are very miserable straight religious people as well, just like there are miserable straight seculars. If one looks hard enough, it might be possible to find a few miserable rabbis as well.
i would like to see 2 gay man make a child! or for this matter 2 lesbians do it.
sodomy is condemned by the Torah -for the believers- because such a union is sterile and does not reproduce mankind
. this rabbi sure doesnt look like one.
david cohen ,
5. homosexuals, shabbat and Jewish law
Where it MAY be true that Shabbat is a more strict item in Jewish law, both are punished by death in the times of the Sanhedrin.
However the religious community is not being lured away from observance by shabbat violations, individuals ARE being seduced by secret perverts in their own communities. These men seduce children and convince them that homosexual behavior is not really bad.
Therefore it is incumbent on the religious communities to stand firm against deviant behavior, just as much as they must be aware of desecration of the Shabbat.
6. I DON'T KNOW WHICH WAY TO TURN
Make your mind up : Homosexuality is a sin ,no it isn't yes it is ,it is abhorrent ,no it isn't? I am confused .I do not know which way to turn ?
CAPTAIN OBVIOUS ,
SAFED OPERA HOUSE
The problem is integrating them into what most people call a 'normal' society.
If the average person is not put off by two guys kissing in public etc than the question to be asked is what is happening in society?
The comparison to the sabbath is not a valid comparison.
That a person should merit the death penalty for desecrating the sabbath is dependant on quite a few conditions while male homosexuality is called an "abomination". In simple terms an unnatural act.
Why is there a constant argument on the validity of homosexuality while those who keep the sabbath do and those who don't, don't.
It is not unnatural to not keep the sabbath but an 'abomination' is an unnatural thing!
8. Lichtenstein , look in the mirror
Society would be a better place when the rabbinate of all denominations start to show better integrity in their dealing. They are very big on fraud and sexual deviant cover up
People like himself teach Torah as the Mitzvah itself and not an attempt to understand and live it
And another thing; Each mitzvah or Averah is self standing and not subject to idiotic grading
9. Wait ... what?
Judean law permits violation of Shabbat to prevent homosexual intercourse, but does not allow homosexual intercourse to prevent the violation of Shabbat.
Not that I in any way subscribe to the religious treatment of homosexual men ... but this is a rabbi making this comparison?
10. Since close to 10% are "afflicted"with homosexuality it must
be regarded as "natural".... or what?!
"Pointless", yes since it does nothing for human continuity, but as means of life's enjoyment....why not?
Not my cup of tea, but so is gefilte fish :-)
11. Remembering the Shabbat to keep it holy is number one
among the Commandments of YHWH, the only one with the words Remember and Holy attached to it. But sodomy is an abomination to YHWH and should not be allowed among YHWH's people. Sodomites should be driven out of religious circles, not welcomed. Forgiveness comes after repentance and the turning away from the sin.
12. #2 is that the type of thanks you give
You should be very happy that finally you have a Rabbi prepared to say its Okay to be gay, may be not in those words but he compares it to a person not keeping Shabbat
But let me point out to you not all gays are happy people for one reason or another just like not all straight people either.
And for the record some gays do manage to live straight lives and have a family of their own and yes some straight guys try out and enjoy same sex.
So don't think you have all the answers.
13. To #2!
Being a Sodomite is a choice--period! God would never put anything in one's genetic makeup to make them sin against Him; so, STOP trying to make excuses for your enjoyment of this abhorrent sin! You chose this evil lifestyle over what God considers a sin worthy of judgment and Hell (Leviticus 18, 20...and, Romans 1), so live with your freedom of choice; but, STOP lying to yourself and others--be honest and say you love your sin more than you love God. You're a godless heathen, but you can repent (only through Yeshua!) and turn back to the Lord and ask Him to cleanse you of this sick perversion! God loves the sinner...but, hates the sin! Sin MUST be judged; but, for those already saved, Yeshua has already paid for our sins...by the shedding of His innocent blood on the Cross-of-Calvary!
Steven Branson ,
14. Just catching up and stating it publicly
Now the genie is out of the bottle and openly talked about greater acceptance naturally follows.
Here in UK the issue is how to keep gays and lesbians inside the Jewish community - it's proved quite easy.
Gay marriage is a much bigger issue here, and sadly our rabbis aren't too happy about it yet. I am sure they'll come round when the law is changed.
15. Softening Attitudes
"Softening attitudes" is just another term for compromise. Compromise is hardly the wonderful thing that those who extol it claim that it is. Compromising truth means the acceptance of untruth. Compromising principle means being unprincipled. Compromising right means accepting wrong. It may be easier to compromise than to maintain principle, truth and righteousness. But, it just isn't right.
Syd Chaden ,
Palermo Calif USA
16. #12 talking about sins
Let's talk about a much severe sin- the one that you and those of your kind commit day for day: avodat sara, idol worshipping! That btw is a choice. People like you are the last ones to tell us what to do and what not to. We, in contrast to you, respect Hashems Torah. Period.
17. #13!! & not #12
18. Tzelem elohim
The starting point in "judging" homosexuals is to determine whether the individual under scrutiny was made b'tzelem elohim. If the answer is yes, the discussion is over. If your absence is no, your entire religious construct falls apart, and there's no point in continuing the discussion.
In any event, it's none of anybody's business,
19. re: Larry, Los Angeles
What a pathetic bigot you are. If you're going to trot out the most hateful, bigoted (and completely unfounded) stereotypes about gays, then why not just say that we add some Gentile blood to our matzahs for Passover?
20. 19 The name you signed says it all.
21. Rabbi Lichtenstein article
A very nice article, but there seems to be some confusion between homosexual orientations and actual practicing homosexuals. I dont understand what sin there is at all with having homosexual feelings/orientations. The writer needs to be more clear on these differences.