One- If they want to be Orthodox, then be totally orthodox and follow the rules
Two- Any who reject religion, should not they have any say in running what is an always has been a religious site. The reform movement, which historically rejected Jerusalam, and continues to reject the type of worship that took place in the Temple, are trying to hijack a religious site they do not even hold of.
3. Agree !
Hoffman added that there was no need to use force and physical contact in order to detain the group members, as they usually cooperated with the police and did not resist arrest.
"If needed, I ask you to instruct the forces stationed in the area to use female officers in order to maintain the worshippers' dignity and faith," she wrote
If the good will is at hand,
it will be pleasant with what it has,
and will not be counted for what it has not.
In bouth directions that is.
4. woman of the wall hands off to policemen
Interesting - they want to have their bread buttered on all sides - they want to behave, dress and pray like men at the Kotel, but demand to be treated like women when it comes to being arrested, What exactly do they want to be, and what exactly do they want to achieve - equality with men - then take the disadvantages with the advantages.
5. #2 OUTSIDE the wall was NEVER a religious site
Read a book
V for Purim ,
Jewish Spring Israel
Use female police. I am sure there are many capable female police in Israel to handle these women, who probably want to make a feminist political statement more than satisfy any spiritual yearnings.
7. Orthodox Judaism Is One Of Several Misogynist Religions
I can't fathom why any civilised nation in the 21st century would base an entire legal system on such a bizarre set of codes. Religions based on women as chattel are relics of the late Bronze Age. That Israel can claim to be a part of Western Civilisation makes rational people chuckle and roll our eyes in amazement.
World Citizen ,
8. The kotel belongs to ALL jews!
and not only to haredim or orthodox! A shame to arrest praying jewish women!
9. not enough 'non-religious events'?
'non-religious events are hardly ever held there' ?? Could that be because it is a holy place and not the best place for many non-religious events? For those who question why some object to women wearing male talisos, please see Deuteronomy 22.5 'A woman shall not wear what pertains to a man, and neither shall a man wear a woman's garment; for whosoever does this is an abomination unto the L-rd your G-d.'
No touch? Come on, you ladies make out as if you are the holiest people in Israel, but do you put on tephilin each day at home or only at the kotel in front of photographers? Do you pray each day at home or only when it serves your political agenda at the kotel in front of the media?
I think these women have no desire to serve G-d only themselves and their agenda to break the religious monopoly of prayer at the wall.
11. deeply sad
I find it deeply sad that the most holy place on earth would be considered for anything but a place to connect to G-d. There are literally millions of places in the world to have social gatherings - but only one place for true believers who dedicate their entire lives to serving G-d the way they have done for thousands of years. Is it too much that they should ask just for this one small place to be kept sacred? Do the women who wear prayer shawls know - or even care what the Torah says - or do they just have their own agenda? If it their own agenda, why do they have to shove it in the face of simple people who just want to be left alone to pray in peace. Really - for a bunch of liberals, you would think that they would uphold the true meaning of "live and let live" and pick a fight somewhere else.
12. ignorance is night of the mind - one w/o moon or star
World Citizen - I doubt; that you have ever studied the true basis of Orthodox Judaism. In the "modern world" women are objectified and plastered half naked all over every square inch of the media - is that truly respecting women. I challenge you to speak to the women you call chattel and ask them about their home life, their children, their happiness. I guarantee that your life does not even come close in any of these areas. If you have not done the research, don't spread the venomous lies.
13. World Citizen - Israeli law is based on British Mandate laws
If you are looking for countries with laws discriminating against Women you're in the right region but the wrong country.
BTW Jews may not pray on the Temple Mount the holiest site in Judaism because it may offend Muslims.
14. To all you orthodox idiots
Can you please find one reference in halacha which states that a woman is not allowed to wear tallis or tefillin???
Now ...please tell me what is it about this saga that really disturbs you? Cos I know it aint nothing to do with God and spirituality.
15. Anat Hoffman
Anat Hoffman of Women of the Wall is NOT a religious activist. She is proudly and loudly an ANTI-RELIGIOUS activist. The American Reform movement is being USED by Meretz and Hoffman in her campaign against Judaism. That makes them Freierim or useful idiots. This is not about freedom of religion but rather forced secularism. Check out Anat Hoffman for yourself.
Jake in Jerusalem ,
16. Flintstones next Ayatollah's regime ;) ,...
There're a few female Ayatollahs a women who are equal in ranking to the ayatollahs, how many a female chief rabbis or even rabbis are in Beit Shemesh or Mea Shearim in Israel ? ,...
17. Correction to post @ 16 ,...
I was suppose to be "Flintstones next to Ayatollah's regime" ,...
18. What would a Reform "temple" do if......
a bunch of Haredi MEN came in, occupied some corner of the probably mostly empty synagogue, and proceeded to daven in an Orthodox manner, with talesim over their heads, shukeling, and all else that they do that's different. Would they tolerate it in the name of freedom of religious practice? Afrer all, they supposedly are a Jewish house of worship. Even moreso, what if it were shacharis and they put on tefillin (horrors!!)?
...all would have denounced these childish troublemakers. They represent their own convoluted ideologies, not Israel , not Judaism.
20. They have Southern Wall (Robinson Arch) all to themselves
Anat Hoffman is an attention freak, not a saintly religious person. "I want to see and be seen" she said. How does this have anything to do with prayer? Be seen & heard by G-D. Prayer is not a performance.
21. The success of 'going backwards' to the good old days!
Jews seem to have a talent for being dissatisfied with present reality and long for the good old days when it was just them and Heshem...
Don't you just love it?
22. Wasn't it Jesus who said you don't have
to pray at that 'wall'? And you're still beating people (women) up for it today....So how far have you gotten on the ladder to enlightement to become civilized???
23. these people are trouble makers
they are looking for attention.. dont give it to them
24. Number 5. Outside the Temple walls
If you look through the Mishna and talmud you will find that the entire City of Jerusalerm had special samctity and special rules. Sometikes when the Mishna says a rule applied in the temple, it means the area from which the Temple is visible. To this day there are special minhagim that apply only to Jerusalem because of its special sanctity.
Sherlock Holmes ,
25. Reply to 14 Deuteronomy 22.5
If you open your Bible and turn to Devorim 22.5 you will see, 'A woman shall not wear that which pertains to a man, nor shall a man wear a women's garments; and whosoever does this is an abomination to the L-rd your G-d.' The Israel civil High Court based its ruling on the basis of a clear Torah principle applied to a Jewish holy place, giving these women an alternative site at Robinson's Arch for their practices.
Sherlock Holmes ,
26. Number 18 Even better
What if I were invited to a bar Mitzvah in a Reform temple and I came in before Shabbos and erected a mechitza setting out sides for men and women, so I could daven as I wish? I remember as a child attending B'nei Mitzvah in Baltimore's Temple Har Sinai and being told to take off my yamulka, which I did to conform with their 'minhag'. My mother, of course, was not asked to remove her hat because hats were the norm for churches and Reform temples in those days.
27. Female police for Women of the Wall
The Women of the Wall are perfectly within their rights to demand that they are dealt with by female police morally and halachically. The police response that they should focus on the law has no bearing on the request whatsover and should stop trying to create a smoke screen over the issue.
Joe Charlaff ,
28. Trouble at the wall
Regardless of what I think about the women of the wall, Heradim or religious customs, the heart of the issue here is that a small minority is imposing their beliefs on the majority, and who are they to judge?
Jews of all sects are practicing a religion that is thousands of years old, and it is not for anyone to judge what the other is doing, as surely no one can be 100% sure if it's being done properly. If a woman wants to wear a prayer shawl or a man wants to wear a fur hat (which I'm personally against), it's not any one else's business.
If a person believes in G-d then they will have to worry only about G-d's judgement.
Just because a small minority says that some thing should be done a certain way, doesn't make it correct. They are in a public place everyone should be respectful of one another, and learn to concentrate on their own prayers and activities.
Gadera - Israel
29. It's not the old Reform
No Reform congregation in which I've ever appeared (I belong to and regularly attend a Conservative shul) has asked me to remove my kipa. To the dismay of some, especially older members, U.S. Reform is becoming considerably more traditional -- not enough for me to join, but a far cry from the days when, as one life-long Reform member said to me, she "grew up in the city's largest Unitarian congregation."
I suspect that if a minyan of black hats started davening in the Lithuanian or Polish manner in a Reform synagogue, they'd be allowed to continue or, if they did so during a Reform service, they'd be invited to continue, but in the chapel.