Haredim as a whole are, for the most part, nothing but a bunch of parasites and hypocrites, they want want all the benefits of living in Israel, yet when it is asked of them to do their part, they come up with all sorts of excuses for why they should stay in yeshivot instead.

my best will,that your comment is realistic.But things don t have to stay that way. If Israel s different societies might get rid of their prejudices and do some effort to discover some values in others opinions,they could improve so, their own way of thinking. It is only with positive changes that progress can be achieved.

have such shallow representations of the Haredi world?

Listen, I'm all for religious serving in the army, etc. I also served, as did my son. But every coin has two sides. It's about time the secular also started bearing the burden of Torah study, as well. The entire Jewish nation was commanded to keep the Torah on Mt. Sinai -- not just the religious! It's about time the chilonim started learning Torah on a daily basis! And the best way to do this is to start with the I.D.F. Instead of three years service, the entire army should be turned into a Hesder program. In addition to learning to be a fighter,all soldiers spend part of their duty learning in the 'beit midrash' (yeshiva). Maybe then the army will return to itself, and we'll start winning wars again!

minded.Do you conclude, because of your name, that you are simple minded? I think the opposite.You have an utterly imaginative mind with sense of humor. But you have a prejudice,for some reason you know better than i,against Tora study.That s why your comments about the effects of the Tora are not relevant.

"TAM" ? I am not a native Hebrew speaker, actually I'm jack of all trades, master of none at this point in life. Anyway I think you should continue with your studies and I will continue to try prying as many people as possible from religion's clutches:-). One has to start with the young, that is something every ideology knows. Some are born "to serve" the Imaginary Friend, I on the other hand, knew from early childhood, that my very core revolted against the NOTION of Eternal Father that will not go away and not leave me alone for ALL TIMES TO COME! North Korea seems like Paradise, there at least, you can die and escape! (I've stolen this from Ch. Hitchens) From time to time I take cheap shot at this obviously serious disorder of the human psyche we call need for religion. Keep on rockin' !

If one believes then he/she studies, some more some less, and that's fine by a secular line of thought. But if one doesn't believe, how can learning of Torah be forced upon such a person, made meaningful in any way? I served in IDF with religious persons and they studied Torah during free times while I read some other books. We served equally and respected each other, would give life for each other I am sure. For the life of me I cannot see them asking me to study Torah or I asking them to abandon their individual studies of Torah. "To each his own" goes the saying.

If for you study tora is a burden , why do you obey such a centuries old "commandement" Do you have a PROOF that this was "commanded" ? Where and when has tora study saved someone ? Did tora "study" save our parents and grandparents on their way to the gas chambers ? tora "study" is good for those who believe in a god , a god that never gave any protection to anybody . So believe , study , and if it's a burden ,you must be a masochist to do it . It's also unnecessarry , while serving in the army is a LIFE necessity .

Dear Ora, when a man's mind is burdened with metaphysical nonsense, indeed preoccupied with it, then his body and very being can only be likened to, and function as, a protoplasmic entity, spineless and useless. Sorry Ora, The course of history has proven this time and time again. Man is only free when he is unburdened and unfettered by the restrictions of religion, only then can he soar like a bird on the wing to attain great heights, expectations and results. Religion, especially in its extreme form can be likened to slavery, self inflicted slavery.

Prayers and "study" of tora NEVER helped , never help and never will help anybody in the future . A "rabbi" who says what this one said is NOT "gadol" but KATAN KATAN .

life for each other"

wings,i think ,faith gives wings. Sagi,live every moment with gusto.

an ignoramus fool ,the sages of Israel said:Im ein kemach ein Torah,if there is no Army there is no Nation.

Religion means following a dogma, following prescriptions and rules which have no basis in practical thought, it means submitting to orders. As such, religion detracts from intellectual liberty, it makes the person stagnant mentally and physically, it deflects spiritual exaltation that comes from freedom of thought and acting. A person so deprived can only be called a slave and be very miserable if he or she is still able of independent thinking. Isn't it shocking that things as elementary as these need to be explained to people who praise themselves on being smart, being chosen is some way? Self inflicted slavery is a complete imbecility and a rav who promotes it is KATAN KATAN.

a believer that ignore himself.The day he discovers the truth,he discovers a world of joy and love.

us.G-d protects us ,if He accepts to fulfill our prayers. You are right ,it doesn t matter where they are. By the way,there is so much truth in bubemeisses.

TAM means simple minded.

religion,sounds like looking at people dancing , without hearing the music.

Michael, Shalom! You wrote: "But if one doesn't believe, how can learning of Torah be forced upon such a person, made meaningful in any way?" First of all, there is no such thing as a Jew who doesn't believe! As Rabbi Tzvi Yehuda Kook once said, "the 'emunah' (faith) of the biggest Jewish 'apikorus', is immensely greater than that of the most believing, non-Jew". Jews are believers -- it's in our DNA, whether we like or not, whether we accept it or not, or whether we put it into action or not. As far as "forcing" Torah study, there is a concept in the Talmud of “kofin oto ad she-yomar rotze ani”. In other words, pressure can be applied on a person who refuses to accept responsibility, until he shouts, "I volunteer to do it" VOLUNTEER to do it??? Yes, volunteer! Why? Because our Sages explain that deep-down in one's soul, every Jew loves God and His Torah! Like I originally wrote, Torah study is the responsibility of ALL Jews, not just the religious! You also wrote: "For the life of me I cannot see them asking me to study Torah or I asking them to abandon their individual studies of Torah. "To each his own" goes the saying." That was good for the Jewish people in Galut (Diaspora), where all the Jews were REALLY "to each his own", but here in Eretz Yisrael, we are ONE nation, and every Jew is responsible for his fellow Jew. I'm not saying that everyone has to become religious, but every Jew has the responsibility to learn Torah, and as our Sages said, "mitoch she-lo lishma, ba lishma" - out of something that is done without any high purpose, will eventually be done for that high purpose.

antiharedi article is not normal for a well educated guy.

Centuries long non protection of the Jews proves a non existence . So belief is good for simple minded , who need something that orders them to bahave correctly

Don't "give" me your illness .

When you have got an elephant by the hind legs and he is trying to run a way, it s best to let him run. You are not an elephant,but as powerful. I don t retain you . and wish you a good health. i mean it,Charles.

a horse to the water,but you can t force him to drink. No doubt, that when the horse is near the water,he doesn t need to be forced anymore,he will crave for it.

I am an absolute non-believer and you will kill me before I will change my mind -- sof pasuk, le'tamid. So, based on that, the sages you believe in were wrong. While I may admire your deep belief and your aptitude for quoting sages, the best way for you and me to coexist is to be very far apart. I will wait for you and yours to leave before shuvi habaita, la'lev ha'aretz..

Just look how much smarter Christians are with their sermons. The priest writes his own text, makes it relevant to his or her community through words and music at the time. If there is a wedding, the sermon mey be happy. If someone died, the sermon may be sad. But your rav has a prescription to follow, fixed texts to read, even the parashiot are old and barely relevant. Can't religious Jews come up with a small improvement to what they are doing in their synagogues? Can't they take a little light from their smarter gentile neighbors or from atheists like me? Then this rav, premyshlyanniy durak, will have no followers, as it should be.

Elephant by the leg I don't know, but the Haredim certaily have monkey on their back.

we are not about to turn our back, on -what you define as a monkey- our great and nobel Jewish heritage.