Opinion  Aviad Kleinberg
Best of both worlds
Aviad Kleinberg
Published: 04.03.13, 20:45
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41 Talkbacks for this article
1. Haredim and changes
Joseph ,   London UK   (03.04.13)
If we want to see changes within the Haredi status quo the best way is to include UTJ and Shas in evolving the changes. Leaving the Haredim out of the coalition is a political mistake. Lapid's public statement that he hopes to be the new prime minister demonstrates his real priorities.
2. Oy Vey, Nebekh'
Dan   (03.04.13)
3. kosher antisemitism
david ,   new york   (03.04.13)
isnt it funny how easy it is to spew hatred of haredim and not be socially ostracized for it (in fact, you get browny points): "they" are leaches, lazy, dirty ... etc. etc. it sounds to me a lot like how the old style antisemites used to talk of jews, and the commonplace of this hatred is reminisent of how those who hate israel talk about all of us: people who have nothing to do with each other can all agree that they hate these jews and they can sit down together and drink tea. isnt antisemitism a great ice-breaker?? - what a backwards and primitive academic
4. #3
Doives ,   Herzliya   (03.04.13)
If you compare hatred against haredim with European ww2 style anti-semitism, you clearly don't understand the current situation in Israel. No one hates them because they're Jewish. They're hated because many of them don't respect/believe (in) the state of Israel, but still they live off the state's money. They live of the money of those who work, while they do the complete opposite. They're hated because they commit fraud in order to receive more money. They're hated because they receive more money from the government, than some disabled individuals who can't work. In short, they don't work (or they do work, and get paid black money on top of Government subsidies). They commit fraud, and they don't respect the state of Israel. Again NO ONE hates them because they're Jewish. That's anti-semitism. This is simply hate towards a specific group who uses taxpayer's money, while disrespecting the taxpayer.
5. To #3 You reap what you saw
kon ,   USA   (03.05.13)
It is totally legitimate to use "They" as 99% of haredim vote for the haredim parties. The haredim parties take money from the non haredim. It is a fact. You still did not counter any fact in this article, so I assume you agree with it.
6. To #4 Lapid was elected
Jon   (03.05.13)
because he promised to get read of the leaches. He is doing exactly what he promised. This is his priority and he sticks to it.
7. Spot on!
MAP ,   Bnei Brak   (03.04.13)
8. #3: It is not anti-semitism to criticize some
Runner1983 ,   USA   (03.05.13)
aspects of haredi cultural norms and some Haredim that marginalize women by eliminating them from the public sphere, erasing their images from advertisements, forcing them to walk on the opposite side of the street from haredi men etc, etc. Worst of all, some haredi rabbis protect child abusers by telling victims and their families not to go to the police, and if they do, they are vilified, threatened and shunned by the haredi community. These are not Jewish values.
9. But yes include them.
Colorado ,   USA   (03.05.13)
Just make it clear that the folly and welfare State can't continue.
10. To: No. 6
Sarah B ,   U.S.A. / Israel   (03.05.13)
The word is "leeches." Can't you learn English well enough to post on an English-language website? You're embarrassing us all. Best shut up.
11. Kon #3
Dovid ,   Haifa Israel   (03.05.13)
not 100% true. you just another know nothing American. I served with Haredim in the army and and have several I work with. We have a few haredi battalions. I am not Haredi. I am Hassid and I am Dati Leumi. I suggest staying out of Israeli politics. You are not one of us.
12. Every word is gold
Avi   (03.05.13)
13. To: No. 5
Sarah B ,   U.S.A. / Israel   (03.05.13)
"You reap what you saw?" When did Israel become a lumberyard?
14. Well really, can you blame them?
Colorado ,   USA   (03.05.13)
Freebies...! Who wouldn't like to do as they please and get paid for it? I personally don't buy into their "claim to fame," and they end up stealing. Israel allied this. Israel needs to rehabilitate this people group to live according to Torah rather than honing the skill of theft. Scholarship is valuable but it has to be actual scholarship fir the (very) few, and not merely a free ride. They should learn to do good work they can be proud of and quit the "men's club." Their families need them at home.
15. #4: your statements are bigoted
david ,   new york(and israel)   (03.05.13)
your talkback is full of "they" this and "they" that. we are talking about 1 million people living in israel. i am certain you know them all well, perhaps i should talk that way about blacks in america or perhaps how "they" (the israelis are pigs and monkeys. quite frankly, i dont see any difference other than the fact that you clearly feel quite comfortable with labelling them with your prejudiced stereotypes.
16. Bibi, Sarah and Naftali
Steve   (03.05.13)
What is there in Naftali Bennett's world view that really "doesn't match" the worldview of Bibi and Sara Netanyahu? I don't get it.
17. NO other country
David ,   On this planet   (03.05.13)
has so many hateful people including this writer. Shame on you
18. #16
israel israeli ,   tel aviv   (03.05.13)
We now know that Netanyahu wants to do a unilateral withdrawal from parts of Judea, Samaria and Jerusalem with violent ethnic cleansing of Jews, like Sharon did in Gaza but on a much wider scale. Bennet is against it. It turns out that before the elections the Haredim refused to work with Bennet and agreed to join Netanyahu. That is why Bennet made an alliance with Lapid.
19. 100 % True
Jay Abouaf ,   Jaffa Israel   (03.05.13)
20. Sh-a$$ are out - yes yes yes yes
Haim ,   TA   (03.05.13)
I guess Mr Deri you could always go back to jail
21. #11: the dati leumi have the MOST problem with haredim
david ,   new york   (03.05.13)
the national religious narrative is that zionism IS judaism. comes along a group more religious than them who doesnt believe in that and they can't stand it. the fact is, the haredim are correct about this: the national religious are completely culturally assimilated into the general israeli culture and it only a matter of time before many of them become reform and conservative. - that's what you get when you culturally assimilate. BTW: nice try with the "know nothing american" line. you don't really know where i lived or where i've been, suffice it to say, its been in both countries. i don't imagine you say such lines to people you agree with, do you?
22. agree wholeheartedly
Michael ,   Tel Aviv   (03.05.13)
the attitude of the Haradi LEADERS is indeed represented here in the article and I agree. This is NOT to say anything about a particular INDIVIDUAL. But it is "amazing" that when I walk (appropriately and modestly dressed) in ultra religious neighborhoods - I am classified as a goy in my own country. I FEEL as if many Haradim leaders feel that they have a monopoly on Judaism...which just isn't true.
23. What unrestrained hatred posses the author?
Ilan   (03.05.13)
What a pitiful human being (and that is giving him the benefit of the doubt).
24. Enlightening article, clear and to the point.
Michael ,   California, USA   (03.05.13)
This is excellent journalism. Nobody can accuse the writer that he represents a marginal point of view, that he is a demagogue or a liar. He sees things clearly and presents them logically. Haredim are riding a losing wave of unpopularity and rejection everywhere they go. The writer correctly points out that Amish in America isolate themselves also and yet they are respected, often admired. The Amish are honest and are loved, and not only in america. Haredim are dishonest and are hated, and not only in Israel.
25. Religion or Cult
Jonny ,   Cape Town   (03.05.13)
Religion or Cult- Difficult to differentiate with some of the extreme Haredim. In many cases, I would say that most are engaged in a Cult, and very few are actually able tp appreciate the beauty of the religion. Those that are should be supported in theirstudies, those that are not should be treated like everyone else.
26. #21
Dovid ,   Haifa   (03.05.13)
the fact is, the haredim are correct about this: the national religious are completely culturally assimilated into the general israeli culture and it only a matter of time before many of them become reform and conservative. - that's what you get when you culturally assimilate. Wow you really are clueless. Make aliyah and help defend Israel... till then stay in New York. Its safer for left wing know nothing Obama loving "Jews"like you.
27. But Authenticly Jewish
Zechariah   (03.05.13)
When the world sees the Haredim they see a Jewish State .In time survival will force a greater military and economic commitment with exemptions .
28. The Haredim have been in nearly every coalition since the bi
Shachar Shalev ,   Eilat   (03.05.13)
The Arab parties have never even been invited to join a coalition gov't. That is a boycott! The gall and hypocrisy of Netanyahu and the Haredim calling this a boycott is offensive. Funny that when he chooses partners that suit him it is natural but when Yesh Atid and Habeyt Hayehudi choose partners it is a boycott. The man is a joke. 30 years of Haredi free gov'ts would do all sides good.
29. #26 you put your finger on it
israel israeli ,   tel aviv   (03.05.13)
While the National Religious accept the Haredi (the principle of ahavat chinam), the Haredim view the National Religious as the worst goyim (Ovadiah's Yosef's words during the elections). Some would say Haredi are correct cause NR are assimiliated. Others would say Haredi fear NR because they provide a real alternative to the Haredim. This is one of the reason that the Haredim helped with the Oslo accords, as a step to destroy the national religious. It is also why Lapid can work with Bennet: he wants to stop Haredi attempts at monopolizing Judaism.
30. no.3 - prove it other wise!
Jew1 ,   Ashdod   (03.05.13)
This is a great article without any antisemitism. No one hate haredi jews but hate their extortion and milking of this country. The views and points stated in this article are representing feeling of majority of this country. If you think otherwise then prove it how the article is wrong and biased. I know you can't but instead of calling article names as I said prove it.
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