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Report: Obama asked Abbas not to take Israel to ICC
Roi Kais
Published: 23.03.13, 10:44
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1. Freeze, Baby, Freeze
Keren IL-BR   (03.23.13)
Ok, the Palestinians will not take israel to ICC on conditions that there will be a freeze in the settlements. Just wait and see. I myself am packing and coming back from Karnei Shomron to Kfar Saba...
2. Leave Israel alone !!
BUILD BABY BUILD !!! ,   United States   (03.23.13)
Enough interference and 'demands' that any Israeli settlement activities end. No losing enemy quotes terms for the victor EVER! No Presidential ally forces an ally to submit and cede any land to their enemy EVER! obama is pushing his luck, he's failed America and now, he fails Israel.
3. P A believed a peace deal could still be reached.
Alan ,   SA   (03.23.13)
Sure they believe this with all their heart.... If they can somehow get Obama(and most EU countries) to get rid of Israel for them first. THEY DONT WANT PEACE...Only to destroy Israel. This settlement BS was never an issue even with Arafat...Only when Obama became Prez. was it made a RED LINE
4. #1 Keren, how fake are you?
Miracle Dog ,   Israel   (03.23.13)
I very much doubt that *anyone* from Karnei Shomron would move out merely because of a perceived assurance that Abu Mazen won't do something that he had no intention of doing anyway. I very much doubt that *anyone* from Karnei Shomron is interested in the fake utterances of hostile forces who want to create a hostile country in the middle of Israel.
5. " Israel to declare what its borders are
A ,   Belgium   (03.23.13)
before any negotiations are launched." "Israeli government must stop settlement construction" "stop giving the settlers incentives" Obviously, the "palestinians" are preparing to shoot themselves in the foot once again with their shopping list of ridiculous preconditions in order to avoid negotiations. If they want borders, fine...North=Golan, South=Eilat, East=Jordan River, West= the sea. "Palestinians" holding Jordanian passports, including the appx. 300,000 whose passports and citizenship were revoked by Jordan, should be repatriated to Jordan. Israel should make its own shopping list too.
6. No more arab illegal settlements on Jewish
jason white ,   afula,israel   (03.23.13)
land. No more settlements and town and cities on Native American land. Israel should take out the unelected president of the p.a. and perhaps send a few fighter bombers to visit the i.c.c. No wonder peres likes abu abb-ass, both were not elected by the people.
7. AMERICAN MEDDLING/INTERFERANCE
SJOERD VAN DER VELDE ,   HOORN NH, HOLLAND   (03.23.13)
ALSO DOWN WITH US WORLD DOMINATION. THE ENTIRE MANKIND IS A FREE, INDEPENDANT AND SOVEREIGN PEOPLE, WITH THE RIGHT OF/TO SELF-DETERMINATION IN A HUMAN WAY FOR EXAMPLE. THE UN HAS TO PROTECT AND TO SERVE THAT FOR THE BENEFIT OF/FOR ALL OF US.
8. @keren #1 is unrelated to Karnei Shomron !
trumo   (03.23.13)
only a lost leftist .
9. Please please dont take Israel to ICC.We will go away.
(03.23.13)
10. Decades for the Future
Zechariah   (03.23.13)
With the PyschoPyromaniac in North Korea and the Neonazi and Jihadi Mass E1 ought be a huge Security Complex with Deep USA-Russian Survivalists Level and Mass Deterrant and Defensive Missiles Projected in all Dirctions .Jews and Arabs will be Protected against the Jihadi And Psycho Alliances.
11. Iran Attack
David ,   Isreal   (03.23.13)
Israel attack Iran nuclear site, Iran attacks Israeli nuclear site. Is that fair?
12. TO # 4 Dog
Keren IL-BR   (03.23.13)
You have the right to doubt anything, my identity, Abbas' intention, peace perceptions, etc. This is a free country. And I have the right to choose where to live, either a place that deserves investment or one that may fall in the domain of another country, specially a Muslim one. I would hate to see my kids have to go to a Palestinian school in Karnei, that is why i prefer now to come back to Israel and avoid all this fuss.
13. palestainian
ejeata wonder ,   yenagoa nigeria   (03.23.13)
I dnt see peace even hundred years to come. Leave isreal alone oh palis they are what they are by God. Zion for ever
14. Dream but made dreams yr master. Kipling. This pres cont
(03.23.13)
Dream but made dreams yr master. Kipling. This pres is being played by the strategists that need a major war to alleviate their burden of debt. Chaos he created in libya. Egypt. Soon Syria. US education. Clinton. Pushing. Pressure. Give territory. Does not work. President. Change yr Advisors. Israel is not 5 % whites ruling africa.
15. Our borders are clearly outlined in the Bible.
Dr Yeruham Leavitt ,   Kiriat Arba, Israel   (03.23.13)
They pretend to have the same God as we have, but they don't study the Bible. The Bible clearly outlines where our borders are. And, Keren, enjoy living right next to Kalkilia with nothing like the security we have in Judea and Samaria. I wish you the best of luck. Plenty of enthusiastic Zionists will be happy to buy or rent your place in Karnei Shomron. Best wishes to all, Yeruham, Dr Yeruham (Frank) Leavitt Senior Lecturer Emeritus, Faculty of Health Sciences, Ben Gurion University, Beer Sheva, and 31- year resident, Kiriat Arba, Hebron, ISRAEL.
16. ABBAS
yossi ,   Canada   (03.23.13)
As much as I dislike Lieberman , he is right about one thing...no negotiation is possible with the Pals. Israel cannot meet their demands.
17. If the PA doesn't go to the ICC...Hamas should take over!...
Edithann ,   USA   (03.23.13)
TATA
18. # 15..Does your G-d teach you to steal another
Edithann ,   USA   (03.23.13)
man's home and lands?...Oh Yes, I forgot;...that's how you got Palestine (Canaan) the first time...But he didn't leave a sign 'we'll be back in 2000 years' did he? TATA
19. WHY ???
FO ,   Belgium   (03.23.13)
Asharq Al-Awsat newspaper says during Ramallah talks US president urged PA leader to refrain from hauling Israel before the court in The Hague. Why did Pres. Obama urges Abba to refrain from doing that? Just because of sympathy or love for the state of Israel? I am rather doubtful about it. Listening to all Obama's speeches, I came to the conclusion that he perfectly masters the Israeli legal file, and that he perfectly knows that there is not one Article in International Law, I repeat, NOT ONE that prevents Israel from settling in the area between the Mediterranean Sea and the Jordan River, including the Golan Heights, and surely not Article 49 of the Fourth Geneva Convention. On the contrary, the Jews, and by extension the state of Israel, got the irrevocable right to settle in said area, thanks to the Mandate for Palestine, voted by the League of Nations in 1922, that became International Law, guaranteed by the Anglo-American Treaty of 1924, and reaffirmed by Article 80 of the Charter of the United Nations, so, a right valid to this day! Even UNSC Resolution 242 is based on the League's decisions when speaking about withdrawal FROM territories and not from THE territories (read articles written by Prof. Rostow, author of the Resolution). I can imagine, that the state of Israel hauled before the court in The Hague, and defended by high level experts in International Law, would end in a victory for Israel. So I remain rather skeptical about Pres. Obama's real intentions.
20. Fank are you saying there is more than one G-d?
(03.23.13)
21. 18 Edithann
Jorge Stern ,   Mex   (03.23.13)
since your so concerned about stealing ones land.....when will USA give Mexico the south westsern part of USA that you stole ? You are a hypocrite !
22. # 18 Edithann as a matter He did !
BUILD BABY BUILD !!! ,   United States   (03.23.13)
He not only wrote of the entirety of the land given to Israel He kept His Promise, Israel was scattered and has returned to be the only nation to be reborn from the ashes and made into a major powerhouse and you poor Muslims can't get your act together enough to end the Muslim v. Muslim slaughter.
23. #15 Want to borrow a few suitcases?
On the Balcony ,   Akko   (03.23.13)
Dr. Leavitt, settler's do not have the exclusive right to call themselves Zionists nor do all Zionists accept that your interpretation of the Torah has standing in international law. Plenty of Zionists will welcome your return to modern Israel proper should your settlement be given up in peace negotiations --and we will certainly respect your decision to become a citizen of Palestine if you are given that choice. But ,quite frankly, we can't afford to continue risking our and our children's lives providing you with the great security that you brag about, not to mention the cost of increasing international disapprobation. The settlements were always a gambit and it appears that the need to sacrifice them accordingly is fast approaching. I wish you luck, a happy and kosher Pessach and a “next year in Jerusalem.”
24. Abbas Understands Demands Only Not Negotiating
Chaim Ben Kahan ,   Efrat, Israel   (03.23.13)
Abbas can make all the demands he wants, but they are a waste of time. E1 is part of Israel and always will be. The settlements will keep expanding, Jordan Valley will remain as part of Israel, no right of return for foreigners to occupy Israel, all Settlements remain intact, Jerusalem remains Israel's undivided capital, "Palestine" must remain a demilitarized entity, the IDF must be allowed to enter all Palestinian areas if there are acts of terror. These are the preconditions if any. The rest is open for negotiations. Abbas keeps trying to win things without negotiating and that's not what negotiations are about.
25. #19 Why? Because you've been cruelly misinformed and misled
On the Balcony ,   Akko   (03.23.13)
by successive Israeli governments, all of whom have known from the beginning that the settlements are illegal under international law. In 1967, the PM of Israel asked his legal advisor Theodor Muron about settling the newly occupied territories. Muron’s report concluded that civilian settlement would be in direct violation of the Geneva Convention. (Israel State Archives, 153.8/7921/3A. Legal Opinion no 289-291) Muron still stands by his analysis. His report was ignored. Instead, the government solicited alternative legal theories from sympathetic jurists that would allow Israel to claim ownership was at least “disputed.” Of course, that begs the question, why has Israel promoted settlements on land that it acknowledges to be disputed? The answer is simple. The settlements were a gambit; if the world ignored them, we eventually could claim most of the occupied territories with impunity, if not, then they became bargaining chips in future negotiations with the Palestinians. Aside from the Palestinians, who are entitled to self-determination and their own State under the mandate you cite, the real victims of this ruse are the settlers and the Israeli people. Till this day the Israeli government maintains the charade of “disputed territories.” But it is only a charade. All of Israel’s purported legal arguments have been unanimously rejected by the international legal community. Not because of anti-Israel sentiments but because the arguments are clearly wrong. Which brings us to your question, “Why doesn’t Israel welcome an opportunity to appear before the ICC? Quite simply, because it knows that it will lose. Look at SC446 which the U.S. allowed to pass. Consider the opinion of Muron who now sits as a judge on an international court criminal tribunal and, finally, bear in mind that the International Court of Justice has already rendered its opinion that the settlements violate international law. If Israel loses before the ICC it will lose the settlement’s bargaining value and Israel as a whole and its leaders as individuals willl face serious sanctions. And now you know why Israel does not want to be hauled before the ICC. The real question is why is Abbas willing to give Israel time to negotiate? The answer is, “fear and hope” and that is reason for us to hope as well.
26. ANSWER TO "THE BALCONY" # 25
FO ,   Belgium   (03.23.13)
If you intend to quote the person I suppose he is, then first of all, spell his name correctly: it is Theodor Meron and not Muron. Meron indeed concluded his report on the basis of Article 49 of the Fourth Geneva Convention, an Article that has no relation at all with Israel's presence in the so called West Bank, Jerusalem or Golan Heights. But it helped Israeli leftist politicians not to lose their face by having to disclose the necessary documents, attesting their total disastrous behavior and policy during the rise of Hitler and the Shoah, If Meron would have stated the contrary. To oppose Meron, I mention Eugene Rostow, Dean of the School of Law at Yale, expert in International Law, author of UNSC Resolution 242 and the comprehensive study he made about it, referring to Israel's rights to the "territories" as well as his reference to Article 49. If you would have read about it, your post would have been, I suppose, more conform to reality and with a better insight of International Law.
27. MY ANSWER TO #23 CONCERNING #15
FO ,   Belgium   (03.24.13)
I agree with you that the Torah has no standing in International Law, in contradiction to certain decisions made by international forums. But tell me, "On the Balcony", how do you describe the area of what you call "Israel proper", a place you advise Dr. Leavitt to return within? The 67 so-called borders? It is a cease-fire line, and Israel signed together with Jordan, that both will never consider this green line (drawn with a green pencil) as a permanent border! What remains? The 1947 UN proposal for the partition of Palestine? It was a non-binding proposal, rejected by all Arab states, so it went off the table! So, if for some ideological reasons you refuse to consider the League of Nations decisions of 1922, although recognized in International Law, and reaffirmed by the UN (Article 80 of its Charter), as valuable, then you, Balcony, you live in a place without any legal framework. So, should I borrow you a few suitcases to find a better place? Now, let us be serious, without prejudging about the future of the the so called West Bank, Dr. Leavitt has the full right to live where he stays, because this area never was an independent state, nor was it part of Jordan, but a residual part of the Mandate for Palestine intended to be part of the coming Jewish state. So the famous Article 49 has no hold on this matter. Accept my wishes for a happy Pessah and a "next year in Jerusalem" or should I rather write, to please you, "next year in a divided Jerusalem"?
28. #26 Arguments are not law
On the Balcony ,   NY, Kyiv, Akko   (03.24.13)
I have read Rostow and even Grief and, having served on an international law faculty for some years, believe that I have a better than layman's knowledge of international law. Rostow's argument is critically undermined by the UN's recognition of Palestine. SCR446 puts the lie to your claim that the Geneva Convention has no relation to the occupied territories, as does the decision of the ICJ in its advisory opinion on the security barrier. Remember, IL is the product of practices and agreements between states -not individual opinions and especially not legal arguments specifically crafted to reach a given conclusion. It is a given that Israel would lose a Palestinian challenge to the legality of the settlements before the ICC. If you can't understand that then perhaps you should stick to proofreading rather than analysis.
29. Answer to #27 re #15 And the borders are….
On the Balcony ,   Akko   (03.24.13)
Firstly, Article 80 of the UN Charter does not support Israel’s claim to the occupied territories. Just as the English language version of SCR242 does not state “the” territories, neither the Balfour Declaration nor the Mandate state that a Jewish homeland shall be created in “all” of the mandated territory. Britain was charged with protecting the rights of both Jews and Arabs and decided that the best way to do this was to create, not one, but two states west of the Jordan. What you so disingenuously call the “residual part of the mandate” is the land that Britain recommended for the creation of a state for resident Palestinian-Arabs. It borders on the absurd to argue that this "residual" land suddenly became free for the taking. Jordans attempt to annex was rejected by the international community. In any case, the UN, as the successor to the League of Nations has now unequivocally exercised its "residual power" by recognizing the State of Palestine on that land with exact borders to be determined. Israel’s final borders will be established either by a mutually agreed upon Peace Treaty with Palestine or imposed upon it by a decision of an international tribunal such as the ICC. Until then, Israel proper is anywhere in Israel’s "undisputed" territory. Dr. Levett can wait to see what happens, maybe he will get lucky and be allowed to stay where he is but, if not, I’ll still happily loan him a few suitcases.
30. As I've said..Israel's existance lies in Palestinian hands..
Edithann ,   USA   (03.26.13)
Israel is in denial and can't see that Palestinians and their ICC access hold Israel at a disadvantage...The UN only wants to know about the original boundries offered them in ''48..Anything else is up to the Palestinians... But then Israel has never been smart...Greed drives them..and it will never change...Israel has to feel some real pain to wake up to reality... Israel has been in violation of all UN and EU agreements and laws for over 70 years now...and their legitimacy is on the line... TATA.
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