Jewish Scene
5 Women of Wall detained over prayer
Kobi Nachshoni
Published: 11.04.13, 10:55
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34 Talkbacks for this article
1. Grotesque picture of infighting at
Tim ,   Brighton   (04.11.13)
Judaism's holiest site Would it not be possible to section off one side for the Ultra Orthodox and one side for the Mainstream Orthodox, Reform, Liberal Secular and Other Faiths?
2. They are the local femen !
trump   (04.11.13)
Since they do not give a damn about lost temple prayers and rites, why do they insist being present at its last remenant ? Provocation is theitr only target .
3. CRAZY!
Sam Sweiry ,   Eastbourne - UK   (04.11.13)
Crazy is not only the word but the fact we live in a crazy world - People do crazy things in life and we ignore them - However others with convictions we punish them - where is Justice?
4. MK Rozin says it all"
jrebecca ,   modiin   (04.11.13)
"There is no real religious dispute here," she added. "It is solely political." on the side of the "women of the wall".
5. A Jewish woman ARRESTED just because SHE wants 2 PRAY, is it
Big Mouth ,   On the face   (04.11.13)
In Israel ??
6. God has enough love for all of us!
Vered, Israel   (04.11.13)
Let's everybody pray how he wants and let the other guy pray how he wants. If we concentrate enough on our own prayers we won't have time to notice what the next guy (or gal) is doing
7. Simple solution, start the prayers with HaTikva
Eric ,   Tel Aviv & NY   (04.11.13)
If a larger group of women go into the women's section and start singing Hatikva (Israel's national anthem) loudly then the men will be forced to flee, just like at any other occasion where Haradi men refuse to listen to women sing. After they leave the women can pray as permitted under Jewish law. No one can claim that the lack of a requirement to wear Talit or to prey could actually be considered a religious prohibition.
8. The Holy Scriptures were written towards the men.
(04.11.13)
The women's role is to help the men make sure they are carried out. The Women of the Wall are out of order. These minority groups are only desecrating what is meant to be Jewish. The love of the Lord towards these men trying their best to cling on to the obedience of the Word is immense.
9. WOW are a bunch of american feminist
zionist forever   (04.11.13)
Women of the Wall have no interest in prayer they just use it as a cover to try make their cause appear to be a just one. The movement is American and most of its members are Americans who only spend part of their time in Israel so they are not even Israeli citizens but they are trying to have the Israeli laws changed. They are feminsts who believe orthodox Judaism is discriminatory toward women and they want to change that because they want full equal rights in religion. If a man can read from a Torah scroll so can a woman. If a man can wear a talit so can a woman If a man can put on teffilin so can a woman. They believe not allowing this is discrimination and its why they have never accepted Robinsons Arch as a compromise solution and turned the plaza into a battleground. They could have requested improvements be made at Robinsons Arch and they would have got it as long as that was the ended their crusade there but they don't want out of sight out of mind they want everybody to see them praying like a man, assuming they even seriously pray. Its true that this is not about religion its about politics and WOW want to turn religion into a womens rights issue. The Meretz MKs should not be given immunity if she intends to use it to help others intentionally break the law by smuggling in talasim.
10. What a load on nonsences
Norman Gellman ,   Rehovot   (04.11.13)
These so called orthodox people forget that the almighty also create women. Nowhere in the Torah does it say that religion is exclusive to the male sex.
11. Idol worshiping.
Nimrod ,   Argentina   (04.11.13)
Isn't praying at the wall constitute a sort of idol worshiping?
12. Great idea Eric #8
A Jerusalemite ,   Jerusalem, Israel   (04.11.13)
Only then they will probably be arrested for singing at the Wall...
13. Not Arrested Because She Wants To Pray...
Robert Blum ,   New Albany, USA   (04.11.13)
Women are welcome to pray at the Kotel in the women's ssection. The obligations of women and of men are not the same in orthodox = correct, Juda-ism. Men wear phylacteries; NOT women! Men wear prayer shawls with tsitsit (fringes), NOT women... Women light Shabbat candles; NOT men! Men worshipped the original 'Golden Calf'; NOT women. Thus the requirements of wearing teffilin (phylacteries), etc. are imposed upon men; NOT upon women... Just because these are our modern times does not mean that in such times rules and understandings must be abandoned. In previous 'modern' times, people had new ideas such as 'Reformed' Juda-ism. The ideas have been widely accepted, but it does not mean that is truly Juda-ism. It is simply a convenient way for assimilated Jews to cling to the remnants of their faith, while allowing themselves the convenience of eating and behaving like other nations (goyim), and believing they are doing and following good and correct Juda-ism, simply because the mutated and incorrect practices are wide-spread and widely accepted by those of the same ilk or mind-set. Liberals destroy society, whether with regard to religion, politics or sexual perverseness; whether in the USA or Israel or Europe or anywhere else.
14. Ultra ultra
Edouard ,   Canada   (04.11.13)
We must stop the Haredim at any cost They are not real Jews They inventing a new religion that is closer to talibanism the Judaism
15. #1 follow the money
israel israeli ,   tel aviv   (04.11.13)
If it really was about religious freedom, a compromise could be found, but it isn't. Do a bit of research of where they get their funding. Look at the history of their leaders, what they did and who paid them.
16. BS
MR   (04.11.13)
The prayer shawl is for men. Women's prayer gains nothing from using it, it's just plain wrong and it only serves to provoke. Try entering Al Aqsa mosque without taking your shoes off, see what happens. You know what? Try talking on your mobile phone during a theater performance and complain about Israel violating your rights when they escort you out.
17. Show me in the Sidur/Tenach where it
vicky ,   ashkelon   (04.11.13)
says a woman cannot wear a prayer shawl? A woman has the right to pray as well as a man. Since when have we been like the Islamists? Leave them alone to pray as they want. Who are they harming?
18. hareidim getting out-maneuvered by a bunch of..
Bluegrass Picker ,   Afula   (04.11.13)
...foreign elderly women. The hareidim are losing control of the circus. Raise your hand if you believe that the hareidim will EVER AGAIN be setting the terms of engagement in this controversy. The hareidim are completely on the defenive; they are getting their butt kicked by a bunch of foreign elderly women.
19. This Wall belongs to all of us
ma nishma ,   modiin   (04.11.13)
So does that mean that I can urinate or defecate where I see fit? Of course not! The Kotel belongs to the Jewish People and it is the traditional place of prayer. It should be kept that and not a place of individual demonstration and media grabs.
20. Women leading Vatican Prayers
Zvi ,   New York City   (04.11.13)
It would be the same as if a woman pushed the pope to the side and began leading prayers at the Vatican. Except here, the woman have 1/2 the wall to pray at, the men the other half. There is dress decorum as well. There are gender roles in every religion. There is no way you can say, "Hey, lets take 1/4 of the Vatican and make it for the Gay & Lesbian congregations." Same goes here... Traditional (Orthodox) Judaism cannot co-exist with heretical offshoots in Jerusalem. And I'm saying this as someone who is completely secular ! :)
21. Let Them Pray At The Wall......
Reuven Brauner ,   Raanana, Israel   (04.11.13)
from the inside. Send them up to the Temple Mount and pray there. Let them deal with the Wakf themselves. Let's see how far they get with that.
22. WOW, the Wall, the Temple Mount
Anne ,   Jerusalem   (04.11.13)
How about these women taking their protest up to the Temple Mount? Let them pray - in taleisim if they so desire- at the truly holiest place for Jews. (The Wall is just an outside remnant.) Let them protest the Arabs adamant refusal to let Jews pray there (and the government's disgusting acceptance of this). Oh yeh - one more thing. Meretz women praying? Tell me - do they fast on Yom Kippur? Keep kosher? Keep Shabbat? Is it Judaism they truly care about, or is it only the public appearance and political protest they're interested in?
23. Only you stupid Jewish liberal women with low self esteem
Moshe ,   Usa   (04.11.13)
should have the right to pray at the wall. Most Jewish women are smart enough to know that Judaism extols women to be superior to men because to their moral & ethical character (which is contrary to Eve who seduced Adam into the knowing the tree of knowledge). The Torah says the the Torah was given to the "House of Israel & the children of Israel" , wherein the "House of Israel" referred to the Jewish women as women, in general, are more morally & ethically upright than men. And the "children of Israel" being the men & the children are generally not as upright. Now, you liberal Jewish women who think that they are more sage than 4000 years of Rabbinical Judaic interpretation, should line up at the Kotel just so Jews around the world can see just how stupid, ignorant & self asserting you clowns are.
24. Is that Shirley MacLaine protesting?
Fred ,   Dallas   (04.11.13)
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25. Israel a democracy
Gregg ,   Umbria, Italy   (04.11.13)
HA HA !!!
26. this is one problem that cant be blamed on haredi
zionist forever   (04.11.13)
I know everybody loves to hate the haredi but in this case the haredi are not the problem the women are. The plaza is the equivalent of an orthodox synagogue and in all orthodox synagogues not just ones jun by haredI The women & men pray separately, men read from the Torah and wear a talit etc women do not. If she went into an orthodox synagogue in any country and women came in acting like the women here do they would be asked to either respect the customs of that synagogue or leave. In the plaza all women are allowed to pray in the womens section but they also must respect orthodox Judaism customs which are the rules at the site. Problem here is WOW is a feminist movement who believe orthodox Judaism discriminates against women and they think if a man is allowed to do something then a woman should also be entitled to do the same. They don't care about prayer of have a desperate wish to wear a talit or read from a Torah scroll they want to get noticed for political purposes. They want to get arrested make the front pages the next day come out of it looking like victims to get sympathy for their cause. Also remember there are probably more non haredi men and woman who want the kotel to carry on being run along the lines of orthodox Judaism and people who are not that bothered but prefer things to stay as they are now because except for a handful of radical reformers the system works so why complicate matters by changing it.
27. 18
zionist forever   (04.11.13)
This has nothing to do with hared The haredi are being provoked by these American feminists who want to do away with orthodox judaism ( all orthodox not just haredi ) at the Kotel. They are not just women wanting to pray they are a political movement. You like might love to blame the haredi for even the slightest thing that goes wrong in this country but fact is this time the trouble makers are the women. The women are doing this to make a political statement for womens rights not because they want to pray or wear a talit as they pray. They are all tools to be used in their crusade.
28. Women of the Wall
Rabbi Parkoff ,   Jerusalem, Israel   (04.11.13)
Just 2 days after writing an inciteful article where you lambast Chareidim and Yeshiva students for insensitivity on Remembrance day you exhibit extreme insensitivity to the Chareidim. The few boys (you exaggerated by counting 200, Kol Yisrael reported one barbecue with a few boys) were not violating the law, and were innocently having a cookout in a park (probably accompanied by many seculars who you failed to notice). The Women of the Wall were warned personally and in spite of the warnings came to provoke. They violated the law, but you fail to report that and take their side. Yellow journalism? The Wall is Holy to the religious Jews, to the secular it is merely a museum and a historical site. Please show sensitivity to the Chareidim who consider this the holiest site in Judaism. If they want to pray, please pray quietly. Why sing out loud and exhibit insensitive provocation?
29. Deuteronomy 22:5
Zee ,   USA   (04.11.13)
Just one of the problems is: Deuteronomy 22:5 "The woman shall not wear mans clothing, neither shall a man put on a woman's garment: for all that do so are abomination unto the LORD thy God." I believe the law in Israel is that woman can ware female style shawls (popular in American Conservative and Reform congregations) at the Kotel, but not the men's style shawl (mostly worn by Orthodox Jews). There are many other problems with what they are doing from a religious perspective.
30. A simple solution
Ian ,   Newcastle upon Tyne   (04.11.13)
Yes,allow them to ape Jewish men's obligation if they want to as long as they take on ALL Jewish men's obligations....including being circumcised. THREE CHEERS FOR ISRAEL!!!
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