You believe that Torah protect our nation ? It's your belief , but was never PROVED to be true , while the protection of the IDF could be seen on the ground . Don't tell me that it was "thanks" to Torah that the IDF was victorious , it's only a belief . And , where was your "Torah protection" when your ancestors were burned in this Bet Knesseth ?

that the Torah was preserved perfectly well by the Jews of the Diasporah, though ALL of them were working rather hard? Get yourselves ro realize that your parasite form of life is OVER!

And Jews living in Israel is against the belief of a large number of Muslims, maybe they are right because they believe it?

it is amazing and unbelievable how intelligent, educated adults can allow themselves to be brainwashed to such an extent that they blindly accept whatever is told to them in the name of religion!!! Oh how powerful is the threat of doing wrong is!

The story of the two farmer brothers who gave each other grain. Of the soldiers? They were not Yeshiva students. What of the builders that built the temple? Seems like the bible states clearly biblical hebrews worked hard and only studied the torah on free time. Were they evil heretics? It is said the wife of a yeshiva student goes to heaven because she permitted him to study by doing practically everything else from raising the children to bringing bread to the table. The same applies to the IDF and in order to permit any torah study at all the IDF requires men with guns in their hands. By serving a mere 3 years in the army in a life expectancy of about 80 years, you not only permit Israelis to study the Torah safely but you also protect the lives of your family, people and country. Why not lean on your own beliefs and logic then?

It's understandable that they named these Yeshivot after what once was. This was an effort to re-create the great Yeshivot of the Golah. But at some point, we need to recognize that we have returned to our land. Name cities, communities and Yeshivot after biblical places that existed under Jewish sovereignty. Be forward thinking, forward looking, and be prepared to defend what we have built from those who seek to destroy it.

25 years ago a Goy in the US asked me if I was 1st a Jew or 1st an American. I responded by asking him "Will the US be around in a thousand years from now? Will the Jewish people be around in a thousand years from now? I ask the secular Israeli: Will Israeli secularism be around in a thousand years from now? Will Torah Judaism be around in a thousand years from now? Let's see what happens.

Torah teaches us that HaShem expects His people to militarily defend Israel. Have you forgotten the Levites at Jericho? You are attempting to make this an either/or situation which it is not. In fact, I dare say you betray your motives by placing tradition above Torah when it comes to military service. Did it ever occur to you that G-d uses Tzahal to protect Israel in addition to Torah? It should have. Did it ever occur to you that Tzahal might need people with Torah in their hearts and minds at this wicked time? It should have. While your story is heartwarming, it is also subjective. You need to look beyond yourself and beyond your traditions however tightly held they may be. Stop hiding.

Your premise and conclusion are completely flawed. 1. Maybe if the Jews who were slaughtered or saved just by luck would have had weapons, they wouldn't have been massacred. 2. How will the Torah world be desrtoyed by some boys being absent for 1-2 years. Where will all the other students and kollel leit be going? 3. The Hesder yeshivos do just fine and do send boys off to learn. This claim is just a blatant lie and scare tactic.

You have to agree, that despite personal views that it is the religious belief of our forefathers that has kept us and has brought us this far as Jews. The thing is that there are many observant Jews (and many traditional ones as well) , Rabbis and genuine torah students who do believe that the power of the Torah protects us. I am excluding those who are not genuine and using Torah as an excuse to escape from responsibility. It is not correct, nor respectful to dismiss such views. There is too much shouting and howling from all side. The Haredi Rabbis need to show flexability on their side and everyone respect for traditions and religious belief. By the way why no debate on Israeli Arabs as well?

First, like many haredim, the writer expresses the poisonous outlook that Torah, among the Children of Israel, is preserved only by them. This by default is a condemnation of the rest. Secondly, he places preservation of tradition, which in and of itself, is not a baal nefesh/alive, as paramount. This is not Torah. The lives of other Jews come first. Thirdly, a sacrifice is not meaningful if what is given is not dear to the giver. Where is the hareidi willingness to sacrifice for others. "What is mine is mine, and what is yours is yours" is how the people of Sodom lived. Indeed, if Torah, as Torah says, is water, then the salty, dead lowlands around the dead sea, which has no outflow for its water, are the result of all the water staying in one place, not shared and so in the end as we see in that place. The message is simple. Clear. Yasher. The writer and his friends should go take a look.

a beautiful to the point article. nothing malicious about it, unlike the so very narrow hateful talkbacks here who don't know what is at stake. or worse, they do. this is a final stage of "berur" for am yisrael. the time of fence-sitting is over. hashem yerachem. choose good choose life!

I have no problem with anyone studying, but who pays the price? Is the blood of a Yeshiva boy more precious than that of our sons? In the past studying was the privilege of the select few. But today, it seems to be thought of as the right. Who pays for these men and their families? As a so co-called middle class family I seem to be paying and paying. I pay more taxes because all my kids are over 18. My kids aren't eligible for scholarships because we are too rich. In colleges and univesities the Haredi are like a privileged class because they get the lion's share of the aid money because they are too poor. I am sick of paying. Tell me Yerach are your holy Yeshiva boys praying or preying. I am so ignorant I can't tell the difference.

in addition to the heroic efforts of the boys in the IDF. Our history has always had both. This notion that one is not equal in sharing the burden because not everyone is doing the same thing is wrought with mistake. Different BUT equal. Evil , mean emotions stemming from both sides of the discussion are proof that the charedim feel guilty about not doing enough in the physical realm to preserve our future in the land and chilonim are racked with guilt because they are doing nothing in the spiritual emotional realm to preserve our nation.

First you eexplain how your parents and grandparents generation were slaughtered in Europe and here because they had no army to defend them...and then you say you refuse to defend your country and yourself because the Torah protects you??!! Now was the Torah invented in 1948 or am I missing something??!!

You called your grandmother, you closed a chapter in your family's history. Good for you. Now, go out and be part of the modern world in Israel. Be respectful of all ways of living, be productive, serve your fellow men who are serving you every day. The "continuity" doesn't require us to repeat mistakes of the past, to live with the old vulnerabilities.

I think that antisemitism was also a big factor of maintaining the Jewish people . An other fact is that many secular Jews , as i am , didn't want to have non Jewish grand children , and because of this gave their children a Jewish education [ abroad ] . Many Jews HAD to convert in order to work [ Karl Landsteiner ] or be accepted in the cultural world [ Heine ] Two examples . Those who believe that Torah protects us , no problem for me , as long as they also contribute to Israel's security and defense . But i also repeat my question : where was this "protection" during the Shoa ? Did saying Tehilim in the train to Auschwitz save them ? Regarding the Israeli Arabs , can you oblige them to shoot at family members on the other side ? They should contribute by doing a civil service .

Why can't the orthodox in Israel study the Torah while doing civil service and receive less welfare from the state?

we dont thwart anything -make it a kiddush hashem . it is all for am yisrael .

the way it protected all the Charedim during the Holocaust? The partisans were mainly uneducated Jews, tradesmen and those who worked the land (see the excellent book "Partisans of the Forest"). Hasn't this writer learned anything since those days? It makes sense: Every Charedi male (if not female) should be able to use a gun, a rifle, make bombs, drive tanks or pilot airlines. As for studying Torah, there is time enough to accomplish that in the hours after work and defense in support of our own nation. The Charedi demands become increasingly unbelievable and, recognizing that they suffer under corrupt leadership, my sympathy for them continues to diminish with the reading of articles like the one above.

Why can't a Haredi man study torah till age 18. Then go in the army for three years. And when he completes his service, go back to studying Torah? Will the three years of service lead to the destruction of the Torah world? We need one draft law for all. Every man at age 18 is subject to the draft. It's time everyone were treated equally in practice, not just words.

Quite a few times in the Torah God said to the Jewish people to act and only then He can help us. Like Charles says, to rely only on Torah study to defend Israël or to feed the people is not enough. We need an army and working people. Asking others to shoulder the burden of providing and defending is only ok if there is a mutual agreement to do so. Even then, the question remains if it is moral that some would have to risk their life while others do not. The deal Lapid is offering preserves Thora study through 1800 exemptions. If it's not enough for the haredi world, negotiate! But don't forget your brother's blood

Well said! I was thinking to post exactly the same ideas. Thank you.

Think of the opportunity it would provide the charedim to make the chilonim more conscious and aware of their heritage and the beauty of Torah study! How can that be a bad thing?

Do the students of Hesder yeshivot not learn Torah? And can people with jobs not also learn Torah? This is a spuriou and arrogant argument. "Tov Torah im derech eretz." And does your argument override the Halacha which states that every man must participate in "Milchemet Mitzvah"? Get off your tuches and stop making excuses.

As the floodwaters rise, a truck comes by his home; he refuses to leave saying G-d will save him. Waters rise, a boat comes to resucue him from a second floor window but he refuses again. Next time he is on the rooftop, yet refuses a helicopter while praying for G-d to save him. Upon meeting G-d in heaven he laments, why did you let me drown when I lived such a pious life in service to your Torah? Said the Lord, "I responded to your prayers with a truck, a boat and a helicopter - what more did you expect of Me?" Is not the IDF part of G-d's plan to protect Israel, just like physicians help Him heal the sick in response to prayers?

Contrary to the Yerach Toker's intention, he gave the most poignant reasons why Haredi Jews should be drafted into the Israeli army; and, in fact, should be willing to voluntarily join. How many massacres must the Jewish People suffer before they realize that they need to be able to defend themselves? Instead, Mr. Toker advocates the re-creation of a society that put the Jews in a vulnerable position to begin with. The studies and prayers didn't help the Jews then and won't help the Jews now. And, these are learned people? They obviously don't learn.

a way of making a living. Cut the crap...no one wants to deny the Torah and the study of the Torah. What people want is that every Jew in Israel participate in the defense of the country. The Haradi impostors have shown nothing but contempt for the very country that protects them. Israel protects the Haredi, gives them welfare and allows them to BS the population with their self righteous nonsense. The Torah was around way before the Hassidim and will be around way after the Hassidim are gone. Its time that we traditional Jews take back our religion from these impostors. The way to do it, is to stop sponsoring them.