Opinion
Two can play precondition game
Dan Calic
Published: 13.07.13, 10:49
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133 Talkbacks for this article
31. Very good thinking...Let's go back to Biblical Borders .
Roland Seener ,   London England   (07.13.13)
32. To Mr. Calic...Bravo
Brett ,   Florida   (07.13.13)
33. #29 Unlikely
Avi Israeli ,   Tel Aviv   (07.13.13)
Israel doesn't have access to the same intel pipelines and massive storage facilities that the US does. A plausible theory on how personal information is used to influence domestic and foreign policy was published today in the 'American Thinker' blog. Search for "Snowden, J. Edgar Hoover and Compromising Secrets".
34. #12 - Dan Calic
Devorah   (07.13.13)
It's very cool that you engage in talkback rather than just throw the words out there.
35. TO MR. CALIC ...
FO ,   Belgium   (07.13.13)
As a history student I was expecting much more from you. I would request from the Arabs (call them Palestinians if YOU like) as pre-conditions the FULL respect of International Law that means the San Remo Conference, the League of Nations decisions of 1922, called the Mandate for Palestine, that gave the Jews the right to settle between the Mediterranean Sea and the Jordan River, and the full respect of Article 80 of the United Nations Charter, reaffirming these rights. After this, without prejudging, I would start negotiations, including Jordan that will have to bear a large burden, being born in sin, in total breach of Article 5 of the League's decisions, by the British, by stealing 77% of the Jewish National Home.
36. Some more Israeli "pre-conditions"
Scott ,   USA   (07.14.13)
1. Apologize for lies, especially those regarding the Temple Mount. 2. Acknowledge that they started the 1948 war and apologize. 3. Raise the dead.
37. #35 on the right track You want 67 we start at 22
Martin SA   (07.14.13)
#35 on the right track You want 67 we start at 22: you want prisoners we want you speak nicely or you wont even listen to you. We need the Knesset to agree that no leader or nominated peace talks negotiator of our country can negotiate without a full range ie standard prescribed set of pre-conditions. Compromised or not these are the pre-conditions placed on the table. Negotiators hands are tied and conditions are tabled Immediately these pseudo arab negotiators insist on pre-conditions they bring out the standard printed set as our opening response. A if you decide on no preconditions we will not table our set. So no blackmail can be perpetrated behind closed door per #23 so correctly mentioned. Livni was under these circumstances was a clever choice by BB. No risk of personal damage to a negotiator. Yes we can develop a comprehensive list of preconditions that can tangle up any talks for another 20 years. So real peace talks would only occur without preconditions. Snoopers of the world be damned. Preconditions are a way of ensuring a stale mate. No preconditions forces both sides to negotiate rather than talk about talk... talk .... talks....
38. #7...home run!
Steve   (07.14.13)
Brilliant post. I was about to suggest the same thing before reading your comment. Abbas may be out mere weeks after peace deal and suddenly we have relinquished territory to Hamas. Hold PA elections now. Until that occurs Abbas is merely a usurper of power.
39. Never heard of a perp. seting pre-conditions
lydia ,   Brisbane   (07.14.13)
40. #22 Reading comprehension
Gee ,   Zikron Yaakov   (07.14.13)
You seem not have any. First there was NEVER anything about removing 'settlements' in any of the agreements - so you are wrong yet again. Phased withdrawal was CONDITIONAL on Arabs fulfilling their obligations. Israel has EXCEEDED all of it's obligations by many factors. No there is blame for one side only - and you are yet again WRONG. The Arabs are neither legally or morally entitled to anything. The Arabs do not have any legal rights to any land - that is an absolute fact. You are one very ignorant person
41. #28-Peace Process
ltrail ,   United States   (07.14.13)
To #28 : David Clark. Sorry Mr. Clark, the article expresses real truth. The so-called Palestinians are nothing more than those with Jordanian passports. Jheesh. Your rant is nothing more than anti-Jewish propaganda. The article certainly is not poorly written as you say. We can only hope that the so-called Palestinians decide to migrate to Jordan. The land belongs to the Jews of Israel. The so-called Palestinians do not deserve to carve up any of the Jewish land at all. Let them carve up Jordan.
42. #18:A rose, that's rich! What's in a name? "Arabs" is the
tom ,   tel aviv   (07.14.13)
right description. "Arabs want another state" sounds quite different from "Palestinians want a state", that you can see even from your balcony...?
43. #9 There's no agreement because Pals want Israel gone
Sam ,   Canada   (07.14.13)
There is no agreement possible so long as Palestinians can't accept a Jewish majority Israel. No matter how many wars Palestinians lose they think that since there are more Arabs and Muslims than Jews eventually they will prevail so that they don't have to compromise. So, that's the Palestinian mindset and Jews will carry on with their lives. Palestinian threats of violence and boycotts won't deter them.
44. To FO in Belgium
(07.14.13)
Impressive! We need people like you in the government :) Bibi- take note.
45. Mr. Calic, a test of your integrity viz#35
On the Balcony ,   Akko/NY/Kyiv   (07.14.13)
1. Historically, was the territory that is now Jordan ever officially INTENDED by the British to be a part of the "Jewish Homeland?" 2. Did the British or the text of the Mandate officially intend for Mandate Palestine to become an independent JEWISH state? 3. Was the Churchill White Paper provided to the members of the League off Nations prior to their approval of the mandate?
46. Re: #28 David
Dan Calic   (07.14.13)
you said- "we all agree that negations need to begin soon and fast, the negotiations for the negotiations should cease" David, you are making my point.
47. @spyguy
Israel/WA   (07.14.13)
Jerusalem was the first place and will be the last place standing. All of the rain and radon is affecting your mental state. Convert and come to Israel- we have an abundance of sunshine ;)
48. #12 Spot on
Avi Israeli ,   Tel Aviv   (07.14.13)
Excellent article. I highly recommend reading some of Dan Calic's other articles on his Facebook page. While I commend Dan for his tenaciousness, the unfortunate reality is that it has always been difficult to talk truth to power.
49. Re: Gregg Bowman
Dan Calic   (07.14.13)
Very nice, I like Tuborg.
50. Childish article, child-like responses
Shachar ,   Eilat   (07.14.13)
And that may be maligning children who could probably negotiate an end to the conflict far more effectively. Abbas's demand to stop building in the settlements is reasonable, all other pre-conditions are ridiculous. We basically have a real-estate deal here. But the seller,Israel, is building on the land he is offering to sell! So the buyer(Palestinians) are quite rightly demanding that the seller stop building on the land they are buying. All details of the sale can be negotiated but not if the seller is going to keep the land after selling!
51. Re: #50 Shachar
Dan Calic   (07.14.13)
"real estate deal?" All the terrorist groups, including Abbas's Fatah Party have charters calling for Israel's destruction and elimination of Zionism. Their web sites show "Palestine" replacing Israel. He calls murderers "martyrs" and "hero's." He also refuses to back away from the right of return. How incredibly naive this statement is. This is no real estate deal.
52. Avi #33
Eaglebeak ,   Left Coast, USA   (07.14.13)
It's true the scale of Israel's intel pipelines and storge facilities is smaller than those of the U.S. but does that really matter? A little dirt can go a long way and there is plenty of dirt on Obama and other politicians here. Thank you for the heads up on the "American Thinker" blog.
53. #50. Staggeringly sick leftist mindset on parade.
Chaim ,   Israel   (07.14.13)
#50. Shachar, your ignorance about Israel is staggeringly ignorant. Your mindset is sick. Jews did not come out of Hitler's gas chambres for "real estate". Zionism is not about "real estate". Jews did not spend 2,000 years wandering in the diaspora seeking "real estate". What is wrong with you??? We are talking about the sole tiny Homeland of the Jewish people and genocidal "Palestinian" poseurs who wish to mass murder Jews and steal our Homeland. These facts are self evident to any literate child.
54. #40. What do you expect from a fictional lawyer?
Chaim ,   Israel   (07.14.13)
#40. Jump Off the Balcony is a fictional lawyer representing Fictional Palestine. So what can you expect from him/her except fictional posts?
55. #17, #18 #22 on 2
solomon ,   bklyn   (07.14.13)
It is you who are the victim of propaganda. You continue to refer to the "Palestinians" as having a real history and are entitled to their “historical lands”. They always insisted they were not "Palestinian" until the 1960's. They are entitlied to Egypt, Syria, etc; those lands they insisted they are from. Changing ones name does not make one entitled. Call a cactus a rose all you want, it still remains a cactus. End of story.
56. #51 The Israeli gov't knew who they were dealing with
Shachar ,   Eilat   (07.14.13)
If you don't like the buyer, don't negotiate. Once you've declared you're looking to do the deal, stop building on the land. I imagine you would prefer to keep the "real estate" instead of selling...so instead of writing about silly pre-conditions, say what you really want to say.
57. #45 - a test of your knowledge
Gee ,   Zikron Yaakov   (07.14.13)
Did you know that when somebody says "Homeland" that that meant an independent state? Besides which the San Remo Treaty - a real law and the Mandate for Palestine - yet another real law. Both stated that it was for an independent nation. Why do you people keep pushing this same stupid comments about not an independent state? It is false and the treaties state that. Where is the Arab claim to the land? Why are you afraid to answer that one?
58. #53 Chaimki, you can scream murder as much as you like
Shachar ,   Eilat   (07.14.13)
The fact is that the Israeli gov't entered into negotiations with the Palestinians on the division of real estate. You don't like it, tell the gov't not me. The article is about pre-conditions for negotiations and here Israel has a weak case,that is all.
59. To No. 57
Bertram ,   London, UK   (07.14.13)
From Wikipedia: General Secretary (and future President) of the Zionist Organization, Nahum Sokolow representing the Zionist Organization at the 1919 Paris Peace Conference, said: 'The object of Zionism is to establish for the Jewish people a home in Palestine secured by public law.... It has been said and is still being obstinately repeated by anti-Zionists again and again, that Zionism aims at the creation of an independent "Jewish State" But this is wholly fallacious. The "Jewish State" was never part of the Zionist programme.'
60. #59 bertram re: 57
solomon ,   bklyn   (07.14.13)
You do not speak of the San Remo Treaty, the Mandate for Palestine, but of an individual. Why do you assiduously avoid the points Gee makes? I guess you just failed his test.
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