Opinion  Aviad Kleinberg
Trick question
Aviad Kleinberg
Published: 24.07.13, 11:17
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1. What an angry guy
Danny ,   Ra'anana   (07.24.13)
This is not a religious issue. Many people believe that giving up land and hoping this time will be different is a pretty poor plan. Imagine if we had given up the Golan to Syria. Referendums have there place, especially for big, divisive issues. They can even be ignored. Remember how Ariel Sharon ignored the referendum about Gush Katif? We all know how well that turned out.
2. The Basic Law
Avi Israeli ,   Tel Aviv   (07.24.13)
The Basic Laws of the State does not provide for the holding of referendums in Israel, and the country has never held one. The very mention of a referendum is only to provide a false illusion that we live in a sovereign state and a true democracy.
3. Whats yr solution mr author.Trust few ppl to sign yr future.
Adi ,   Zurich   (07.24.13)
Whats yr solution mr author.Trust few ppl to sign yr future.!.
4. 07/24/1922 ! REMEMBER THIS DAY !
FO ,   Belgium   (07.24.13)
I do not know who you are, Mr. or Mrs. Aviad Kleinberg. But I presume that somebody who has the pretension to write an article to be published in a famous paper, like this one, has at least some knowledge of the history and legal rights of his own country. Do you at least realize that your article is published exactly 91 years (24th of July 1922) after the most amazing and unanimous vote by all the 51 members of the League of Nations, about the "Mandate for Palestine", a mandate that gave the Jews the irrevocable right to settle between the Mediterranean Sea and the Jordan River, including the Golan Heights? The Mandate for Palestine guaranteed a Jewish State in formation, became international law, was reaffirmed by the United Nations under article 80 of its charter and taken into consideration in UNSC Resolution 242, the resolution that became the cornerstone for diplomacy in the Middle-East. And you, you conclude your article by writing: "Should we allow the settlers to continue to ignore the law and build wherever and whenever they please?" It is not my duty to prejudge about the future of the so-called “West-Bank", but I challenge you to quote in this column the law (in its exact wording) that the settlers, as you write, continue to ignore.
5. To prevent bribery as done by Rabin and Sharon
Ilan   (07.24.13)
MK's are bought and sold with public funds. Rabin bribed Shas and offered a car to get Oslo. Sharon was even more corrupt (as hard as it is to believe). A referendum is a reasonable check when dealing with corrupt politicians.
6. You're a leftist obviously
Raphael ,   Paris France   (07.24.13)
Avida, You're a leftist obviously. And as a good leftist, you don't like the true democracy, when the people express its choice. Because you are so sure to know what's good for Israel, you think elected people should decide for the rest of the country. You don't like the idea of a referendum, because you know the probability the Israeli people refuse the peace conditions is high. Israeli people don't want to divide Jerusalem, don't want the so-called refugees to come to Israel...
7. Professor Aviad
Abraham Nachmias ,   Petach Tikva IL   (07.24.13)
Just read in Google that you tech history in tel Aviv University and now I understand why you write what you write! You are part of the snobish elite that believe that the academia's opinion is much more worth while that the opinion of Ovadia who works in a factory! Of course it's not important that what you write is exactly the opposite of democracy! Think twice and you will understand why the people of Israel don't like nor the Supreme Court nor you elitist snobs!
8. Referendum is an obstacle but a valid one
Sam ,   Canada   (07.24.13)
Politicians can engage in wheeling and dealing to get themselves the vote some of them want and the nation would not want. Here in Canada the people have overturned the vote of the politicians on major issues in referendums.
9. Author wants to impose suicidal "peace deal" on Israel.
Chaim ,   Israel   (07.24.13)
This ridiculous author clearly wants the power to impose a suicidal "peace deal" on Israel that Israelis totally reject. How undemocratic and pathetic!
10. Referendum = Ambiguity = Naivete
Abdel Karim Salim ,   Jerusalem   (07.24.13)
How about referring the issues of war , and national economy , and security and intelligence matters to referendum by the masses whose biggest portion is highly uneducated and least experienced in those fields ? Should a country ask its people in a referendum about whether to launch a war against the enemy or not ??? Democracy is government of the will of the majority . If you don't like it there is always another alternative : dictatorship of one person or one party ...
11. This author would also honor Stalin & Mao
Yosi ,   Gilo-Jerusalem   (07.24.13)
He denigrates democracy or the will of the majority. One of our largest problems, Bibi being a prime example, is that every time that we "vote" for the right people to represent us, people like the authors friends bribe them, threaten them and coerse them to consort with the devil(islam). Just like the "Jewish Police" that helped hitler exterminate 6 million. Need I some more about the money that the europeans and the US are pouring in to help the arabs and buy Israels leadership. That's right, we don't trust him, Bibi, the MK's that would sell their mother, even the supposed religious parties that sold us out on Gush Katif.
12.  I have another issue that should be put to a referendum.
Zev ,   Israel   (07.24.13)
is it appropriate for the settlers to continue to pay taxes to a government that will stop funding for them.
13. Aviad Kleinberg's referendum
Avi Israeli ,   Tel Aviv   (07.24.13)
A)I agree to relinquish all territories captured in the Six Day War. B)I agree to the boundaries defined in the UN partition plan of 1947. C)I agree to have my democratically elected government choose what are the best security options regarding any future borders and final settlements with the Palestinians. D)I agree to have the democratically elected governments of the EU and the US decide what are the best security options regarding any future borders and final settlements with the Palestinians. E)All of the above. Sarcasm aside, everyone knows Israel never had a referendum on any issue and it's unlikely that we ever will. 'Painful concessions' will be made just like they were regarding Oslo. When the 'new' initiative invariably fails, the Arabs will blame Israel. The Left will blame the religious and the religious will say 'I told you so'. The cycle repeats itself through Jewish history.
14. referandae
GABE1 ,   canada   (07.24.13)
Governments are constituted to govern. They, in real terms. have no power to change a country's religion or borders or even to allow regions to break away.
15. Afraid of the People?
David ,   Seattle   (07.24.13)
The author appears worried the majority of Israelis won't agree with him on a political issue; and wants to avoid putting his own opinion to a vote. Right now, the majority of Israelis support a peace deal in general terms - and might still support one when the details are known. As such, Bennett's block is also a display of courage: unlike the author he is willing to accept a vote.
16. Bennet should be careful for what he wishes for
Zev ,   Israel   (07.24.13)
The Left media in Israel will be drafted to brainwash the people and the settlers will be pictured as the enemy of the rest of Israel. There will be no debate in the media on the dangers of the agreement reached. The Israeli people are easily brainwashed as they have been in the past and I for one do not think that a referendum is the answer when the deck will be stacked in favor of the left. Besides will the government be obligated to follow the referendum or will the referendum just be a recommendation?
17. Main obstacle is Arabs want Israel destroyed
Rachel ,   US   (07.24.13)
18. Funny
KK   (07.24.13)
what angry guy. Are you criticising Benett? Anyway,no need for referendums. He was on point of the FACT you cannot trust Arabs no matter from which Islamic country ---let alone the ones like Abbas and his clique.
19. questions for the history professor
shloime ,   toronto, canada   (07.24.13)
if the oslo agreement had been put to a referendum, would it have resulted in the oslo war? did the dismantling of gush katif bring peace with gaza? (also the reference to "huge sums of money to settlements" is just another big lie of the leftist "peace" movement: the idf costs "huge sums of money" to stop arab attacks, regardless of where jews are living. the difference is, it was LESS costly, and more effective, to defend gush katif than sderot, ashkelon, and ultimately tel aviv and jerusalem, just it will prove to be cheaper to defend hevron than netanya.) but the biggest question is, if you believe in democracy, why shouldn't every israeli have a right to decide the single most important question facing the country - what are you scared of?
20. absolutely nuts
david ,   new york   (07.24.13)
its hard to imagine any country which gives away its land to its enemies and its even harder to imagine doing it on the whim of a prime minister. haven't we suffered enough with oslo, disengagement etc. that we should realize that "peace deals" are murderous. yes, there should be a roadblock to such insanity. a referendum is a minimum. i would propose something akin to what it takes to get a constitutional amendment in the US (multiple supramajorities)
21. True peace is not made
Naor ,   USA   (07.24.13)
by backdoor deals, with both arms twisted by foreigners. Real peace is made between PEOPLES, not leaders who will one day disappear into obscurity. Especially not leaders such as Livni, who only received support from a very small percentage of Israelis but has much more sway than she should. If the people of Israel do not support the peace deal reached by the government, it is bound to unravel.
22. Theocracy
Simantov ,   Israel   (07.24.13)
The land of Israel is not up for negotiations. Yes god is the sole voice that counts, if this writer doesn't know that yet, he needs to learn.
23. @Kleinberg san remo protocols state that the whole mandate i
trump   (07.24.13)
I am not interested in your grandiose leftist plans You should live in europe , to be islamized very soon Why do you want to impose.that fate on our nanostate?
24. referendum
john ,   toronto   (07.24.13)
All valid points on which referendum should be held.
25. Leftists and what they fear
Steven ,   San Francisco   (07.24.13)
Leftists such as the writer fear democracy and the voice of the people. They think they know better than the people what is for the people's best interest. Build, Israel, Build!
26. follow the money
meira ,   TA   (07.24.13)
Israel lost NIS billions (gov't estimates) annually due to port workers sanctions. Billions in subsidies to leftist institutions, kibbutzim, theatres, etc. More billions due to monopolies and cartels! A housing crisis! Ten billion NIS lost on the evacuation and expulsion of Jews from Gaza. And you blame Jews who live in Judea and Samaria? In what world do you live?
27. The Long arms of the Obama Jews
Tom W ,   USA   (07.24.13)
Get ready for increasing number of leftist, American Jews instigated articles in the Israeli press, pushing the idea of a "cut to the right size" Israel. The leftist brainwashing will speed up in the near future in order to soften up the public will.
28. referendum
jennifer ,   jerusalem, Israel   (07.24.13)
When will the world at large, and the secular Israelis wake up and realize that the arabs want ALL of Israel-and then the world
29. I'm left and I'm for a referendum
Shachar ,   Eilat   (07.24.13)
I think both sides need to hold a referendum on any peace deal reached and a majority reached in favour of the deal. I don't think any deal will work without a solid majority on both sides wanting the deal. Ilan #5 is right about the shady deals done to push through the Oslo accords. Peace needs to be honest and upfront. Shady deals only destroy confidence. Unlike the author I see no reason to fear a referendum. A solid majority backed the Egypt deal, almost everyone backed the Jordanian deal and polls showed a solid majority for the disengagement. If the deal is a good deal the people will back it. If it isn't a good deal they will rightly reject it.
30. #29. The deals you noted were all utter disasters for Israel
Chaim ,   Israel   (07.24.13)
Every single one of the deals you noted were utter disasters for Israel. Israel would be incomparably stronger, richer and more secure had we kept the SInai. Leaving Gaza brought Israel countless wars, rockets and suffering. The bottom line is that almost all Israel's suffering directly results from Israeli retreats.
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