Opinion
Who really wants peace?
Dan Calic
Published: 27.07.13, 13:11
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61. #57 I'm not kidding
(07.28.13)
Of course it is critical how Security Council members interpret a text they approve, otherwise what would be the point of their approving anything? Your example just shows how the French interpreted it. Although to be honest, even if the word "the" was put before the word "territories" I don't think it would necessarily mean ALL the territories. Eugene Rostow may interpret the territories only as Sinai but obviously this has never been even the American official position. And the British Mandate for Palestine didn't promise the whole land between the river and the sea for a Jewish national home, so I don't see this Mandate as an obstacle to partitioning this land.
62. To 54
Luiz F Haddad ,   Niteroi, Brazil   (07.28.13)
Dan Calic, I congratulate you for the excellent article. As a true friend of Israel, I also think that "Palestine", in order to be a State, must be demilitarized, having only police forces; and that border's lines among her and Israel have to be redrawed; not returning to "before June, 1967". That is the fair solution. I am sure Israeli people, by majority, will accept it. About Arab Palestines, they must repeal bad radical leaders. While it doesn't occur, no agreement. Salutes from South America.
63. Bertram #58: I think yours is revisionist history
Steve   (07.28.13)
Your view that the economic humiliation of Germany (by the Treaty of Versailles) imposed by the Allies following WWI laid the basis for the rise of the Third Reich, is the kind of revisionist history peddled by apologists for the Third Reich like Patrick Buchanan and others. If you read what General John J. Pershing said or wrote, you will get a very different picture. Wilson did not want to defeat Germany. He wanted a Germany strong enough to come to the peace table. But Pershing was "set on blasting the German army out of existence, and with it Wilson's hopes of stage-managing the negotiations." Pershing planned on destroying Germany. (Remember Israel had Egypt's Third Army encircled near the end of the 1973 Yom Kippur war only to be rescued from annihilation by Henry Kissinger?) Pershing complained, "If they had given us another ten days, we would have rounded up the entire German army....What I dread is that Germany doesn't know that she was licked. Had they given us another week, we'd have taught them." Even as Pershing reached this conclusion, German officers were originating the theory of the "stab in the back" exploited by Hitler. As we know Jews figured prominently in the theory. FDR (though he should have gone further) did not repeat Wilson's mistake. Neither should Israel. I would submit the reason Israel is in this predicament is largely because, like Sagi, Chaim and others maintain, Israel has not "licked" her enemies sufficiently.
64. TO # 61 Continue to shoot...
FO ,   Belgium   (07.28.13)
Continue to shoot in your own feet if this is your sacred desire. I must admit, what, I would not have thought before, that post # 9, recommended by the readers, is indeed a perfect analysis!
65. Calic's opinions
Michael ,   Haifa   (07.29.13)
This is an opinion piece. It is written by somebody called Calic. Why is his opinion any better than anyone elses opinion ?
66. Re: CT Bademsoy
Dan Calic   (07.29.13)
This world needs more courageous people like you to stand against the hypocrisy, lies and apocalyptic goals of those who believe murdering innocent people is a holy act sanctioned by their "god."
67. to 21
sara ,   jerusalem   (07.29.13)
from the start israil had the choice to negotiate only with the palastinians as they came here only to palastine and tillnow only they have this choice .. but as iam a palastinian had not the choice from the start as israil was the one to enter my house no other people so i was obliged now and evry now to negotiate only with israil becouse of that the negotiation will fail i do not like obligation even if there are forces this is the truth of wars .you are right about it but it is not the right decision for both arab and israil or any one on this planet
68. Re: Nir/Chaim [popl stats]
Dan Calic   (07.29.13)
Chaim, I did a little checking and from what I saw it appears the Arab population growth rates in Judea/Samaria and Gaza are stronger than Israel's population growth rate. The average of Gaza of Judea/Samaria is 2.96%. Israel's growth rate is 1.87%, which includes some 21% Arab citizens. Based on this the long term numbers seem to favor the Arabs.
69. #51, time has been "Palestinians side" for 100 yrs
Danny   (07.29.13)
there are about 3.5m arabs in west bank jerusalem and pre-67 Israel and over 6m Jews and this is assuming demographic figures from PA are accurate. At the current differential rate of growth going to be another 100 yrs before they take over and that is ignoring the fact the rate of growth of the Arab population is slowing. The western world has never "insured" the Jewish state and has always acted exactly in its interests. The Middle East is rapidly losing its importance as oil is being found in other parts of the world and western countries are being less reliant on arab and persian dictator resources.
70. #59, yet more made up figures
Danny   (07.29.13)
Gaza is not relevant. and Arab Israelis are not 22% of Israeli population, they are 17%.
71. TO DAN CALIC # 39 - !!!
FO ,   Belgium   (07.29.13)
Most important !!! In an interview to the Belgian TV, Yitzhak Rabin declared: (copied from the audio track) "... the so-called PLO will never be part of negotiations... We believe that the Palestinian issue can and should be solved in a context of peace that will be negotiated between Israel and Jordan...but it will never be through the so-called PLO, or through a third independent state. Because a third independent state between Jordan and Israel cannot solve the Palestinian issue, and will serve as a time bomb against Jordan as well as against Israel". Amazing isn't it? So, who pushed Rabin to sign what he didn't believe in? No idea? Really? Well, it is clear that Jordan, still alive thanks to Israel, but born in sin (on 77% of the Jewish National Home territory) as a result of British treacherous behavior against the League of Nations and the Jewish people, cannot and should no escape full and total implication in the so-called Palestinian issue, involving also the demographic context, keeping in mind, first of all, the Arabs of Jordanian nationality staying in the so-called West-Bank.
72. Here we go again
imafreeagent ,   Florida   (07.29.13)
The Palestinians will offer some concession, the Israelis will pretend to offer some concession, and in the end the Israelis will not comply. They will however keep Palestine's concessions. The result will just be more innocent Palestinian blood.
73. #68. Israel needs to encourage "Palestinian" departure.
Chaim ,   Israel   (07.29.13)
There is no reason for Israel to make life comfortable for "Palestinians", who would mass murder us all in a heart beat if they could. Studies differ as to the relative Jewish and Arab population growth rates. (Gaza is completely irrelevant). However, Israel is well within her rights to encourage massive "Palestinian" departure from our land. To start with, Israel must end ALL lunatic support of Fictional Palestine in the form of food, materials, medicine, money and electricity. This is plain crazy!
74. #5-Rants...or truth....
Koose E Mack ,   NY USA   (07.29.13)
Habibi...no one would like to believe in the peace process more than me! I have many Palestinian colleagues that I would love to have as neighbors both here in the US and in Israel. Unfortunately, they are a silent micro minority. Most Palestinian Politicians want nothing more than a complete takeover of all of Israel and to throw the European Jews back to the camps of Europe. Until Palestinian Politicians encourage their constituents to accept Israel's existence and stop the racist blind hatred of Israel and Jews..there is nothing to talk about. Unfortunately, until Moshiach...there will never be a peaceful solution...and it is not because of the Jews. Take weapons away from the Palestinians and there will be peace tomorrow. Take our weapons away and the Holocaust will look like a walk in the park! Don't think you'll escape the bullets because you're a liberal or lefty!
75. Israel Doesnt Want Peace!
SarahRachel ,   Los Angeles USA   (07.29.13)
Who doesn't want peace? ISRAEL doesn't want peace. If Israel wanted peace then it would stand up to the world and expose the lie of a "Palestinian people" in the first place invented by Yassir Arafat in the 60s as tools to be used to destroy the State of Israel. The Israeli Govt negotiates with this non-existent "people" (do they negotiate with unicorns too?). Why does Israel even pretend that these "people" exist? In order to destroy Israel and create Palestine, because the Israeli Govt is Erev Rav and cares only about money, oil money, western money, European money, but not Jews or Israel. Blind Jews in Israel are going to be massacred by Arabs coming in after "Palestine" is created, and they sit there and let their gov't do it. The Jews in Israel should all be digging their own graves and sewing their own funeral shrouds right now because that's what's coming.
76. To #74 No, You Don't Have "Palestinian" colleagues
SarahRachel ,   Los Angeles   (07.30.13)
You may have colleagues, but they are not Palestinians. Palestinians do not exist. There has never existed a Palestine or a native Palestinian people in the land of Israel. Ever. So, I'd suggest that you ask your "Palestinian" colleagues where they, their grandparents, their uncles, etc. are actually from and what their actual ethnicity is, because it isn't "Palestinian".
77. To #67
SarahRachel ,   Los Angeles   (07.30.13)
No, you are not a "Palestinian". Where are your grandparents from? Your ancestors were not Palestinians, since Palestinians are an invention of the arch-terrorist Yassir Arafat, the idiot who invented airline hijackings. "Palestinians" were invented as a tool to help destroy the State of Israel in the 1960s. Before that there was no such thing as a "Palestinian" and there still isn't. So WHO are you again? Try again! If you are Arab your ancestors come from the Arabian Peninsula, not Israel. It was the land of Canaan before Israel, not "Palestine".
78. To No. 76
Bertram ,   London, UK   (07.30.13)
Well, I guess you ain't an American either. Even Native Americans are not American since their ancestors came from Asia. The English are not English since their forbears came from Germany. The Turks came from Central Asia. Abraham and his family came from Iraq. Seems like no-one has any right to be anywhere.
79. to 39
sara ,   jerusalem   (07.30.13)
history tell us to resolve the problem of people on the land not that under the earth but israil was a resolve of jews on the lands it was never that -return to the grandfather land - but realy many politician used this logic to make it legal .... realy the conflict now must be to both israili citizines and palastinians wherever they live with complex situations .we do not return to islamic empier or roman empiar
80. to 77
sara ,   jerusalem   (07.30.13)
iam pure palastinian may my ancestors were caananit or from bni israil but they did not speake the arabic or they were moslms as languags and religion travelled to the country with the pople one man can teach ten thousands or mor .. it is my story ..i know it history knows it and god wants it
81. To No. 77
Bertram ,   London, UK   (07.30.13)
So, to continue, the point is it doesn't matter if the Palestinians were 'invented' in the 1960s. There are people today who see themselves as Palestinians and who possess a Palestinian cultural and national identity. It may well be invented but, I am sorry, all identities are in some way invented. Identities do not arise out of thin air, nor are they divinely created. They are historically constructed, just like Israeli or any other identity. So, if it quacks like a duck, walks like a duck ....
82. Re: Bertram [who are the Palestinians?]
Dan Calic   (07.31.13)
Bertram, One must take into account how the "Palestinians" came to become so. Prior to '48 Jews living in the land under the British Mandate were called Palestinians, because they were residents in the area known as the British Mandate for Palestine. After the UN voted to approve two states for two peoples [original two state solution] by virtue of resolution 181 the existing Arab countries chose to ignore the UN vote and told their brethren Arabs living in the soon to be partitioned land to leave because it was their intention to destroy the new state of Israel the day after independence in May '48. Thus the single biggest issue which is responsible for this decades long conflict is the disregard of the UN vote and subsequent attempt to destroy the new state of Israel.....for which the Arabs are responsible. Thus the Egyptians, Jordanians, Lebanese and Syrians who became displayed by virtue of their brethren's attempt to destroy Israel got stuck in no mans land after the war. Instead of being taken in by the countries who told them to leave, these same countries intentionally allowed them to fester as "refugees" so they could convince the world their plight is Israel's fault. Why do you think Abbas continues to demand the right of return? He wants to destroy Israel demographically. Thus, these so-called "Palestinians have roughly a 40+ year history because Yasser Arafat chose to rename them such in order to create a unique ethnic and cultural history of folks who are simply Arabs that were part of an effort to destroy Israel. Sorry, since they are not unique, and their creation was for the purposes of destroying Israel, they cannot enjoy te same ethnic and cultural identity of other acceptable groups, it's as simple as that.
83. To No. 82
Bertram ,   London, UK   (08.01.13)
So, are you saying there were no existing Arab inhabitants of mandated (pre 1948) Palestine? Or, are you saying there were Arab inhabitants but they all fled, leaving only Arabs from other countries? Or, are you saying that because Jordan took over the West Bank after 1948 the Arabs already living there cease to be from Palestine, even though they had not moved?
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