Jewish Scene
Priest's dismissal exposes rift over Jews
Reuters
Published: 04.08.13, 14:07
Comment Comment
Print comment Print comment
Back to article
48 Talkbacks for this article
1. 'if the Jewish community had had a rabbi like Lemanski'
split ,   US   (08.04.13)
I wonder how long would any rebe last pushing Polish/Catholic agenda not only in Israel but any synagogue?
2. Bravo Father Lemanski!
iselin ,   Oslo, Norway   (08.04.13)
The world needs more priests like you!
3. very true..antisemitism alive and kickin in Poland
Anna Maria Sedda ,   London   (08.04.13)
unfortunately chatholic Polish and poland in general is very antisemitic becouse of the Hitler and Nazi poison..Today Polish are free,and they have no excuses for their antisemitism.. and the Chatholic churce neither...I call for all Antisemitic bishops to be kicked off the church now!!!
4. A brave man and a good Pole
Alexander ,   Tel Aviv, Israel   (08.04.13)
A brave man and a good Pole - maybe one of few good Poles - unlike some infamous Polish debaters in here like Tomek and split. So the Polish priest Wojciech Lemanski was sacked by Warsaw diocese of the Roman Catholic Church because he practices what Jesus Christ teaches Christians - compassion, love for all men and women and fundamental sympathy and empathy and the recognition that all human beings were created in the image of God - including Jews? So he was sacked because he sympathizes with the Jews, treats them like equals and admits the Polish nation's tremendous moral guilt towards Polish Jewry? So being a good mensch and speaking from the heart and practicing real Christianity means that a Polish priest will be fired? And when a Polish priest expresses sympathy and empathy with the Jewish people, the Polish Church accuses him in a rather mocking manner of being a Jew himself? That says a lot of what's going on in the minds of the Poles today. Supposedly, "there is very little anti-Semitism" in Poland today. Is that so? Can we then deduce that the Polish Church is not Christian at all but only Christian in name? Should we deduce that the Polish Church OPENLY supports anti-Semitism and genocide on Jews? The Polish Church may be a Church in name but I don't think Jesus - if he even existed, would support Polish Christian hatred of Jews - for several reasons: Jesus himself was a Jew, and he taught peace and brotherly love for all men and women. The Polish Church does not heed the words of Jesus. Should we then deduce that the Polish Church serves something else besides God? Maybe the opposite of God? It seems that the Polish Church preaches love but practices hatred. I don't think that neither God nor Jesus - if he even existed, would sanction and support human bureaucratic institutions where anti-Semites, racists, pedophiles, criminals and corrupt people claim to "represent" God and Jesus Christ simply because they hold an office at a religious institution. Christianity is about emulating Jesus and behaving like him , not praying to him , not turning him into an idol and not "representing" him at an office in a religĂ­ous institution that speaks morality but practices hatred, preaches humility and yet have a Church interior and exterior covered in gold, precious metals and precious stones. It seems Catholics have forgotten the true message of Christianity.
5. This priest is a Righteous Gentile.
Mark ,   Lodz, Poland   (08.04.13)
.....and split, if not for the likes of you over the last 2 millennia, we Jews would be numbering 300 million today...a concept that would cause you to implode, judging from the hateful drivel you post on here on a daily basis. We don't need to prove anything. The truth is there and this priest is revealing it...not sweeping matters under the carpet as his 'superiors' are comfortable in doing. Now go back to 'Your Wiki' and send us some more of your tripe.
6. #1 As usual, you miss the point
Cynthia ,   USA   (08.04.13)
It's a sign of respect for a priest who preaches respect and dialogue with the Jewish community. This obviously is not the norm in Poland.
7. # 5 ,...
split ,   US   (08.04.13)
".....and split, if not for the likes of you over the last 2 millennia, we Jews would be numbering 300 million today" ,... First my friend I didn't kill or intended to harm anyone and second this fact is a proof that you need to learn to co-exist with others ,...
8. Maybe a good test for the new pope
Zyx ,   USA   (08.04.13)
9. To Split
Joe Bliksem ,   Ra'anana, Israel   (08.04.13)
Does the Archbishop Hoser know that his dear Jesus was a Jew and was also circumcised??Does he know that his dear Jesus was not a Christian and would be probably turning in his grave if he knew what was done to the Jews in his name??Does he know that his dear Jesus most probably had curly black hair and a big nose like mine and most probably did not look anything like he is portrayed. Does he know that he was supposedly born in Bethlehem and has he told the so called Palestinians that Jews have lived there long before the invention of the Palestinian nation.Does he know that his beloved mother was a Jewish mother and not a virgin as was wrongly mistranslated from the Bible???Does Split know any of these things??
10. To nr 7 - the Polish goon and peddler is back
Alexander ,   Tel Aviv, Israel   (08.04.13)
"First my friend I didn't kill or intended to harm anyone and second this fact is a proof that you need to learn to co-exist with others ,... " Who should be taught "coexistence": those who are the objects of hatred or those who do the hatred? Those who are massacred or those who are involved in massacres? It is usually those who are guilty of hatred, racism and genocide that should be taught how to coexist. Your comment is like saying that Jews and Nazis, Blacks and Ku Klux Klan, White European slave owners and African slaves, banks and bank robbers need to learn how to "coexist". It's a reversal of the relationship between victim and perpetrator. Victim becomes perpetrator and perpetrator becomes victim. You can't point out a single crime which the Jewish people has collectively committed, or endorsed against any nation on earth - including Poland. How many massacres have Jews publicly and collectively committed and endorsed against the Poles or any other nation for that matter in Europe or the Middle East? The fact of the matter is that you are a totally insane person who should be permanently locked up in a mental hospital and have your brain saturated with washing powder. I do pity you. And you know hating Jews and Israel won't save Poland from an irreversible demographic decline and collapse. Check with the UN for figures on demographics in Poland. You Poles are a dying breed. Get used to it,...
11. #7 You're clutching at straws, split.... straws
Mark ,   Lodz, Poland   (08.04.13)
12. Split is correct in calling for learning to coexist.
Michael ,   California, USA   (08.05.13)
It is also correct for him to be patriotic toward his country of origin. Of course, being correct does not give anybody the right to castigate others. The truth is yet to come out on what has happened there and the case of Priest Lemanski deserves a deeper explanation and analysis. In my experience, since Pope John Paul's time Catholics in Poland have been supporting coexistence with Jews and are abandoning their old negative opinions.
13. Why don't Reuters discuss American role in Treblinka
Miron ,   USA   (08.05.13)
14. Was he once Jewish?
Sherlock Holmes ,   London England   (08.05.13)
Many decent Polish Catholics hid Jewish children during WW II. After the war, Pope Pius XII ruled that any Jewish children who were baptised cannot be returned to the Jewish community. Therefore there are many Polish Catholics today who were born Jewish.
15. It takes a monumentally ignorant misojudaic to equate
Paqid Yirmeyahu ,   netzarim.co.il   (08.05.13)
an altar made of gravestones with a synagogue
16. To nr 12 - He is not correct Michael. I'll explain why
Alexander ,   Tel Aviv, Israel   (08.05.13)
split is not correct in calling for learning to coexist since he doesn't accept Israel's and the Jewish peoples' right to exist - he glorifies anti-Semitism and supports genocide on Jews. Are you suggesting that this is an example of "coexistence"? split speaking of coexistence is like Hitler giving Western democracies a lecture on human rights. split may be patriotic to his native Poland, but no law of nature says that Polish patriotism has to be based on anti-Semitism. split's motive is not Polish patriotism but anti-Semitism. Daily split vomits his anti-Semitic venom at every single Ynet article that most of the time has no connection to Poland whatsoever. That means that either you are apologetic Michael and accept split's racist Jew hatred, or you are seriously unaware of what exactly this guy stands for. I have to say that your "experience" has nothing to do with reality - just read the article again. Second, several opinion polls in Poland CLEARLY reveal that more than 50% of the Poles hold anti-Semitic views. The Polish Catholic Church ON THE CONTRARY was HOSTILE to Pope John Paul's officially made apologies to the Jewish people and the State of Israel in the name of Catholicism. There are two alternatives Michael: Either you support anti-Semitism or you are ignorant of what split and Poland stand for.There are no other alternatives. But I will not accept any whitewashing of Poles or Poland. Poland is one of the most brutally racist and anti-Semitic nations in the history of European civilization. It's a crime against humanity that Poland still exists today. And another Polish speciality is either to deny their anti-Semitism of the past and of the present or blame it on the Jews which split does frequently. His anti-Semitic inferior mind is simply a product of a deeply backward, primitive and racist Eastern European culture. Poland should be treated today the same way Nazi Germany was treated by the Allies. It's just too bad that Poland and the Polish people still exist, but it will take a while before they are gone - something they are doing to themselves demographically. To conclude: split's motive is NOT Polish patriotism but anti-Semitism.
17. Alexander, I think you hate Catholics harder
Michael ,   California, USA   (08.06.13)
than they hate you. With views like yours, coexistence is impossible, never was possible. Some may say that Catholics are justified to hate you in return. I will remain in my neutral position since I don't know you and I don't know Split. But from my experience I can attest that his position TODAY is more tenable than yours.
18. # 16
Konrad ,   Warsaw   (08.05.13)
"Poland is one of the most brutally racist and anti-Semitic nations in the history of European civilization. It's a crime against humanity that Poland still exists today." Interesting observations. Highly objective. They do not erase Deir Yassin, though.
19. #18 - familliar with 3 million?
zalman ,   williamsburg US   (08.06.13)
At least that many Holy Jewish souls were erase by Poland in Shoa... 3 milion.
20. To nr 17: Michael, your statement is based on what?
Alexander ,   Tel Aviv, Israel   (08.06.13)
"With views like yours, coexistence is impossible, never was possible. " Interestingly you haven't commented on the very hatred, racism and anti-Semitism which have existed for centuries in Poland which is the direct reason why many Jews are hostile to Poles. Poles hate Jews because of their Jewish ethnicity. Jews hate Poles because of the Polish racism against Jews. If you can't tell the difference then I truly feel sorry for you. Are you suggesting that Africans and Ku Klux Klan should learn coexistence? Don't you think that the prerequisite for having peaceful coexistence between Jews and Poles is that the Polish nation gets down on their knees and apologize to the Jewish people and compensate them? How can you have coexistence if you ignore who is a victim and who is a perpetrator? What have I and the Jewish people done to the Poles? What crimes have we committed against the Poles - except that we are Jews and that we exist? I will not have coexistence with people that preach hatred against my people. Coexistence has to be mutual. You only make demands to the Jewish side despite the fact that Jews have been victims of the Poles and not vice versa. I frankly don't understand how speaking the simple truth can hinder coexistence. I Think that racists and anti-Semites hinder coexistence - not Jewish resentment against anti-Semites and anti-Semitic mass murderers. "Some may say that Catholics are justified to hate you in return." They hated us for centuries even though we have committed no crimes against them. Catholics should hate me because of what? That I resent their crimes against Jews? Are you suggesting that Afro-Americans have no legitimate reason to hate Klu Klux Klan? The Catholics hate us because we are Jews and we hate the Catholics because they preach anti-Semitism. "But from my experience I can attest that his position TODAY is more tenable than yours. " The main problem with you Michael is that you speak of "positions" and "opinions" as if facts and reality don't objectively exist - as if "opinions" determine reality. The fact of the matter is that opinion polls in Poland reveal that more than 50% of the Poles carry anti-Semitic opinions. That's not a position - that's a fact. The earth is round, the earth orbits the sun and the moon orbits the earth. That's not a "position" - that's a fact.
21. #17, Michael
Howard Immanuelson ,   US   (08.06.13)
Split's position is more tenable than Alexander's? Yikes! Split is a raving anti-Semite. I don't agree with everything that Alexander said but 90% of it is pretty spot-on. The gist of his message is absolutely correct; Split is motivated by Jew-hatred, not Polish patriotism. It's completely frightening that you'd agree with him. What's next? Standing behind Louis Farrakhan?
22. #18, Konrad
Howard Immanuelson ,   US   (08.06.13)
So in your opinion, the industrial slaughter of millions of innocent people equates to a highly disputed war-time event where 100 civilians were killed? I'm utterly amazed that you'd somehow raise this point and think that it somehow is related to his comments. I'm afraid it says a lot more about you than you intended.
23. #20 Alexander, I would reply if I wasn't censored by Ynet.
Michael ,   California, USA   (08.06.13)
Your reply deserves a detailed comment from me, Alexander, and I would not hesitate to write one. But in the past, in situations like this one, when I replied after 2-3 prior messages on the board, I was always censored by Ynet News. So, if the censor promises me that what I will write will be posted, I'll do it here gladly. I could benefit a little from your protektsya there in Tel Aviv, it seems.
24. # 20
Konrad ,   Warsaw   (08.06.13)
"Poles hate Jews because of their Jewish ethnicity. Jews hate Poles because of the Polish racism against Jews." A fantastic conclusion. My congratulations. What I especially like is the (implied) idea of Jews constituting a separate race. A Rosenbergian concept surviving in the Tel Avivian kind of coffee house political discourse.
25. # 19
Konrad ,   Warsaw   (08.06.13)
Good arithmetics. One insignificant detail, though. There was no Poland during Shoa. Germans and their Third Reich. Where were the Germans?
26. #22
Konrad ,   Warsaw   (08.06.13)
Mr. Immanuelson, I, in my turn. am utterly amazed by the implication contained in your phrase "the industrial slaughter of millions of innocent people". Poles as arch-organizers of that "industrial slaughter"? What next? Oh, yes, that's already clear. One Alexander of Tel Aviv has already the answer. Since "it's a crime against humanity that Poland still exists today", shouldn't it be removed from the world's map? Deir Yassin. A litmus test.
27. Michael , 23 . Excuses , excuses and excuses
Charles ,   Petach Tikva   (08.06.13)
28. Zalman , three million Jews erased by Poland ?
Charles ,   Petach Tikva   (08.06.13)
Yes , three million Jews erased IN Poland , not BY Poland . That there were many antisemitic acts then is without any doubd , that many Jews were murdered by Poles is also a fact . But why , contrary to what happened in other occupied territories , was there a death penalty for hiding or helping Jews ? maybe because they feared that Poles will work against their murderous plans ? You have to know that for saving a Jew many people were necessarry , and more who knew but didn't betray . One traitor was enough of course .
29. Konrad 18 . Remember Kielce ?
Charles ,   Petach Tikva   (08.06.13)
Pogrom begon by POLICE . The Deir Yassin act was condemned by most of the Leadership .
30. Konrad ...You're getting a free English lesson
Mark ,   Lodz, Poland   (08.06.13)
...and split is in raptures with the attention he hasn't received in the last decade. I'm sure it's agreed that if Poland was so intolerant of Jews - what were 3 million of us doing there in the first place pre-1939? Funny, how Poland and Turkey started flourishing after taking in Jews fleeing the Spanish Inquisition..Co-incidence? The difference between Poles and Jews can be summed up as follows - a generalization , yes - but will nonetheless evoke an acknowledging chuckle from my Polish friends, acquaintances and students. ....if a group of Poles are in a pit and one of them tries to climb out...the rest will pull him back down to continue sharing their plight On the other hand, if a group of Jews are in that pit, they will help to get one out, who in turn will help to pull more out and so on until the pit is empty. Poles are so full of distrust for each other such co-operation is inconceivable and their jealousy mutates to hate. The exception is in the Catholic religious circles whereby Jews, "the Christ-killers" become the competition etc etc... Please don't play the Deir Yassin card if you don't want Jedwabne - where POLISH peasants burned Jews alive in a barn or Kielce - where Jews, returning to their homes AFTER the war were murdered by POLES..not WaffenSS! Yes, Deir Yassin is a blemish on Israeli warfare but it pales in comparison with the above.
Next talkbacks
Back to article