Opinion
Peace: A matter of needs vs. wants
Dan Calic
Published: 20.08.13, 09:45
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44 Talkbacks for this article
1. If they wanted peace, autonomy & prosperity: protectorate
Paqid Yirmeyahu ,   netzarim.co.il   (08.20.13)
Q.E.D. Anything else makes Israel's existence tenuous Conclusion: their real--denied--agenda is to excise kaphirun ("infidels") from an Islamic Middle East. They regard the biggest infidel situated in the Middle East to be Israel.
2. Misleading
Geoff ,   London (UK)   (08.20.13)
The author talks about negotiating with 'the Palestinians'. Israel is, in fact, negotiating with just half the Palestinians. Hamas and the other rejectionist groups will never accept any agreement between Netanyahu and Abbas
3. I support the right of return!
mika   (08.20.13)
The right of all Jews to return to their homes in Israel! Jericho, Gaza, Nablus, Jaffa, Jerusalem
4. No chance.
Jules   (08.20.13)
The PLO Charter does not allow any Jewish state, which makes any negotiations meaningless. The whole "Project Palestine" is just an enormous money laundering machine.
5. #2: even more misleading
Igor ,   Germany   (08.20.13)
Israel is not even negotiating with half the Palestinians. Israel is negotiating with the clique around Abbas, whose term as the "president" expired in January 2009 and who has no legitimacy.
6. Needs vs. wants
Aharon ,   Jerusalem   (08.20.13)
In arabic there is one word for need and want: "Biddi" masari = i want money / i need money So maybe the arabs are just not used to making that distinction between needs and wants. ("Lazem" is need but in the sense of a must or obligation, which is different)
7. Needs and Wants..is spurious
Sammy ,   Newcastle   (08.20.13)
We all have NEEDS We all have WANTS But we are living in a REAL world and we all have to negotiate around the premise of getting a solution that's best for all By far the overwhelming majority in BOTH CAMPS DO NOT WANT this perpetuation of open ended conflict to continue And in the age of Instant Communication where our Palestinian young can think and judge for themselves its much more difficult to get them to spill blood for impossible dreams Yes the negotiations will be tough, protracted....but the end result is worth the effort..and the wait
8. Pals reject peace but Hamas afraid PA will compromise
Sam ,   Canada   (08.20.13)
Why would Hamas always try to break up negotiations with bombings and stabbings if it thought peace was impossible? It appears Palestinians reject peace but don't want to shut the door in case they change their minds.
9. Wants and Needs
Ros ,   Tel Aviv   (08.20.13)
Do they really want peace or the destruction of Israel - that should be the first question on the table!!!
10. "At the end, what's the solution?"
tiki ,   belgium   (08.20.13)
Ask Livni! According to her Naftali Bennet and his party are the problem! The writer asks simple questions that nobody dares to answer, because the answer is equally simple: As long as Arab Palestinians dream of taking over Israel as theirs, there won't be peace. This was their view/aim from day one and they didn't move an inch! Israel did, it moved miles & people and still there was no "peace". Arab Palestinian change of mindset is the answer! Golda understood this, Livni doesn't!
11. Please note
Motti   (08.20.13)
There were not 5-6 million refugees who were displaced in 48. There were only up to 800,000 arabs who decided to leave and fight Israel from the outside. The millions you speak off are an inflated number created by the UN and its agencies
12. calic is being too kind
jere   (08.20.13)
of course the pals don't want any jews not only in their proposed state but in israel proper which they just said yesterday in arabic would be dissolved. So what is there to talk about. By the way 3-5% is olmert and barak's formulae which vastly underestimate israel's demands. The coming 3 wars will wipe out the pals injudea and samaria or have them flee to jordan and that is the solution. israel should also be claiming reuben's land on the east bank. The israelis are strong enough where they were not in the past to make such claims. As for barak, he was a disaster, olmert belongs in jail he is so weak, and bibi is as gutless as olmert was and is.
13. Compromise is a slippery word
David ,   Boston, MA   (08.20.13)
It's dishonest to call the Palestinians "unwilling to compromise" because they are demanding all Judea and Samaria. From the Palestinian perspective, "all of J&S" is a huge compromise over the "all of Israel" they think they deserve. It's Israel's illegal settlement building that has made this compromise so difficult to implement. Israel should not be rewarded for this by a new compromise that penalizes the Palestinians.
14. Calic
Michael ,   Haifa   (08.20.13)
Why does Calic always ask silly hypothetrical questions here about the future (that have no answers at this time) and then go on to assume the mantle of the prophet and give silly answers to his silly questions, because he is a writer, history student and speaker. In short he really hasn't said anything we didn't know and his insights are no better than anybody else's
15. "Palestinians" have no right to tiny Jewish Homeland.
Chaim ,   Israel   (08.20.13)
"Palestinians" do not seek peace. They seek the destruction of Israel. P.A. TV shouts this out every day. So do "Palestinian" covenants. So does their entire society. However, the larger issue is that they have no right to the tiny Jewish Homeland. Suppose Hispanics, for example, said they want peace with America. However, they also want their own homeland carved out of America. Even if they were seeking peace, they have no right to America. Even if "Palestinians" were seeking peace, which they are not, they have no right to any part of the tiny sole Jewish Homeland.
16. Re: Sammy #7
Dan Calic   (08.20.13)
you say- "By far the overwhelming majority in BOTH CAMPS DO NOT WANT this perpetuation of open ended conflict to continue" Indeed Israel wants it to end so they can live peacefully as neighbors. However the Palestinians want it to end so they can have Israel eliminated. They will continue the conflict until their "impossible dreams" of Israel's elimination are realized.
17. Re: #9 Ros
Dan Calic   (08.20.13)
apparently you missed this in the article- Thus the real question becomes: Is their goal peace, or is it to gain their own state at the expense of the Israel's existence?
18. From the river to the sea...
Raphael ,   Netanya   (08.20.13)
So they want to take over Israel? How do they imagine the future? Going back to barren hills and swamps like before Zionism? Toil in the fields like halutzim? Ask the UNRWA bureaucrats if they agree leaving their airconditioned offices. Enjoying a good existence while exploiting the natural resources? The only raw material in Israel are the grey cells, rather difficult to harness a jewish brain.
19. #13 Pal demand of right of return means ALL of Israel
Sam ,   Canada   (08.20.13)
Palestinians don't want just the 1967 borders. That's a fairy tale they would have the West and liberal Jews believe. Even Hamas would take the 1967 borders for a truce. The Palestinian demand for right of return means they want to flood Israel with Palestinians so as to make that a Palestinian majority. When they drop that then we can talk about a 2 state solution. The Palestinians are trying to fool the West and Jews into handing them the 1967 borders because that includes Jerusalem.
20. Re: #11 Motti [clarification]
Dan Calic   (08.20.13)
True the original number was less than 1 million, however the Palestinians are demanding they, their families and descendents, hence the 5 - 6 million.
21. #13 Pal demand of right of return means ALL of Israel
Sam ,   Canada   (08.20.13)
Palestinians don't want just the 1967 borders. That's a fairy tale they would have the West and liberal Jews believe. Even Hamas would take the 1967 borders for a truce. The Palestinian demand for right of return means they want to flood Israel with Palestinians so as to make that a Palestinian majority. When they drop that then we can talk about a 2 state solution. The Palestinians are trying to fool the West and Jews into handing them the 1967 borders because that includes Jerusalem.
22. Answers
(08.20.13)
If you would listen to the Arabs instead of treating them like children, the answers to your questions would be clear. The Arabs believe all the land is theirs and the Jews have no national rights (Hamas and PLO charter). The Arabs believe (and they are right) that you cannot have two viable states in Israel: there can be either Israel or Palestine, not both.
23. Need and want
God'sway   (08.20.13)
If only needs of Palestinians will not set middle east on fire with more arab springs without food or clothe
24. Arabs and compromise
Gee ,   Zikron Yaakov   (08.20.13)
Compromise is a false issue - the Arabs have never compromised and never will. The real issues are the facts that the Arabs have violated every single provision of every treaty they have signed. They have never fulfilled a single obligation. This is the real problem. Signing yet another worthless treaty will solve nothing. Until we can get them to honor their agreements then signing or even negotiating new treaties is a total waste of time
25. Demographics
neny ,   frankfurt/germany   (08.20.13)
Israel should think of swapping jewish populations of West Bank and the Arabs from Israel. What is better? to have 400000 settlers in the West Bank or get rid of 400000 Bedouins and Arabs from Haifa and the North? Sounds hard and racist. But look what happened in Kosovo. After WWII Muslims less then 50% now independent muslim state. Thats the logics of demography.
26. My impression
CAB ,   berlin   (08.20.13)
My impression is that many Israelis have constructed their own version of reality. The narrative-adjusting over a period of 60 years has done a good job. "It would if your desire is to see Israel lose control of its holiest city" - really, most of the world knows this is a pure delusion. It was never your city, nor will it ever be, even if you continue demolishing houses, making life hell for Palestinans and throwing them out. Evil begets evil and it all comes round.
27. Cali, do you watch the news or read newspapers?
Cali Lib ,   Los Angeles, USA   (08.20.13)
If you had, you would know that in the last peace talks held between Olmert and Abbas, the Palestinians compromised on everything. As far as land, the Palestinians were conceding all the settlements that straddle the green line and all of the settlement's built around East Jerusalem. Abbas refused Ariel outright, that is one settlement block. As far as refugees, out of that 5-6 million you throw out there to scare people, the Palestinians ever since Camp David 2, have resigned themselves to the fact that no more than 100,000 to 200,000 total refugees over a 10 year period will be allowed back into Israel under the provision of family reunification. Oh and I think it's more than fair that 400,000 Jews have to move, 1 million Palestinians moved in 1947. As far as Jerusalem, even Israeli's have come to the conclusion that East Jerusalem will be the capitol of Palestine, with the only the Holy Basin internationalized.
28. #27. Palestine is forever fictional.
Chaim ,   Israel   (08.20.13)
You are spouting the same rubbish Israel's foes have been spouting for decades. It never came to pass and it never will. This tiny land belongs to the Jews and Palestine is forever fictional.
29. #27 Cali Lib
Brett ,   Florida   (08.20.13)
As we all know, the pals have always lived up to every agreement ever understood with Israel right? So of course the will only be 2 million refugees within 10 years, the pals compromised on everything right? 400,000 will never move because the fictional pals started a war and got their asses kicked, then ran away. Just to be clear, the land you are so concerned about belonged to Jordan, there never was a people called palestinians that mean old Israel, took their land. Have some more kool-aid, the jim jones kind.
30. re# 28 Chaim Palestine doesnt exist????
Cali Cal ,   Los Angeles   (08.21.13)
Why don't you take an evening stroll in Nablus, Israel or Gaza City, Israel then, Chaim? If there is no Palestine, you shouldn't have a problem walking around with your yarmulka holding an Israeli flag.
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