Jewish Scene
Reform leader: Orthodoxy in Israel jeopardizes Judaism
Saar Haas
Published: 26.08.13, 08:51
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1. Wrong- American Jews are socialist progressives first
(08.26.13)
Americans second, and Jews last.
2. Alienation of Jews in Israel
Shimon Z. Klein ,   Bat Hefer, Israel   (08.26.13)
The problem of alienation of non-Orthodox Jews does not only exist in in the US but also in Israel. The Orthodox establishment and its Chief Rabbinate has always driven many Jews from the religious fold by their intolerant behaviour and rigid stance to Halacha as they interpret it. I view myself as an example of a Secular Jew that has been alienated by the Orthodox Establishment and do not feel at home here spiritually. There are two kinds of Orthodox Jews - the Ultra-Orthodox non-Zionist and the Modern Orthodox which is politically right wing and justify the occupation. Both groups share an inate racism toward the non-Jew in various degrees. If this is the Judaism taking root and controlling Israel I cannot be part of that from a conscience point of view. To me it is an abberation of Jewish values on which we were taught.
3. #1 You are absolutely corrects.
(08.26.13)
4. Interesting article, thanks for running it
R ,   Israel   (08.26.13)
5. Blaming moderate Orthodox for Ultra-Orthodoxy
Paqid Yirmeyahu ,   netzarim.co.il   (08.26.13)
Reform agenda blurs the baby with the bathwater Until that changes any meaningful and enduring solution will remain over the horizon Reform denies reality no less than the Ultra-Orthodox, each for their own narrow agenda
6. Traditional style orthodoxy is best
David ,   uk   (08.26.13)
7. American Jews nust be allowed to interfere in Israel
CJK   (08.26.13)
these people, by their own admission are never going to make aliyah, they are not even interested in israel. however, they want to meddle in israel's affairs. they cause problems for israel, problems that israel does not need. they have no understanding of the jewish state, her security needs, her spiritual needs. they want to turn israel into a little america. that will not happen.
8. Reform is coercive force
Danny ,   Petach Tikva   (08.26.13)
American reformers want to impose their vision in a country where they represent less than 1% of the population, through the political pressure, the media and financial pressure. otherwise, this meddling and completely anti-democratic. Why not make Aliah to impose their religion democratically?
9. reality check
mordechai taub ,   jerusalem   (08.26.13)
the first thing that is neccessary in order to deal with any situation is to accept reality as it exists. the vast majority of American Jews are nonaffiliated. the claim by the Reform movement that they represent a third of American Jewry is silly.
10. 7 But turning Israel into medieval Poland is ok?
Israeili Jew ,   Israel   (08.26.13)
I don't think so!
11. Americans first....
Dror ,   Haifa, Israel   (08.26.13)
The Jews of Germany chose to be Germans first, they were thrown head first into the ovens by their fellow JEWS (kapos and vermin sell out nazi conspirator laborers). Who is selling us out now? Could it be the same bastard bankers who sold us out then?
12. The reform movement
Dror ,   Haifa, Israel   (08.26.13)
I promised to avoid hating, but the reform movement gets under my skin in the most obnoxious way.
13. Jews of America
Dror ,   Haifa, Israel   (08.26.13)
You live in a country that has been overrun by corporatist authoritarians otherwise known as the globalists. Your water is poisoned, your food is poisoned, your minds are poisoned and controlled. All of your material wealth is going to become worthless soon. Your stupid self important grins are going to get smacked right off of your faces soon. You are slaves in Egypt.. All of you including the orthodox and ultra orthodox are int he same boat. They should know better, but apparently they are just as foolish as the rest of you.
14. With reform what do you define as Jewish
Zionist forever   (08.26.13)
Whilst he is busy cndemning orthodoxy he should remember that however you feel about it orthodox is the original and reform is about doing away with the old rules reinventing the religion to suit your lifestyle. Orthodox Judaism at least has laws and its not a free for all so you know what your supposed to do and what your not and if you follow the rules or not is a personal issue. In reform anything goes and what they decide is applicable or not depends on what is politically correct or convenient. Rather than condemning Orthodox Judaism encouraging us to all be citizens first religion after he should be leaving other people to do things their way and he does things his way. When you start arguing over who is right orthodox or reform and criticisng the other you end up in a Sunni v Shia situation where they cannot live together.
15. Reform Judaism Is An Oxymoron
Ariel ben Yochanan ,   Kfar Tapuah, Efraim   (08.26.13)
B"H - Judaism is about rendering society Torah compatible. Reform is about rendering Torah compatible with society.
16. ARROGANT AMERICAN JEWS
TEL EM STRAIGHT ,   SAFED OBVIOUS HOUSE   (08.26.13)
American " Reform " jews have no right ,zero right ,to make decisions regarding Israels' security . These american jews do not reside here ,they are not citizens of Israel and therefore they have a limited say on how Israel conducts its affairs. Furthermore, Reform Judaism is not even proper Judiasm .
17. Israel to blame for US Jewry decline
Alon ,   Bet Shemesh, Israel   (08.26.13)
Rabbi Jacobs' contention ignores the internal reasons for the decline and attempts to assign blame for his other movements' population decline. The so-called inclusion of mix-marriage partners 1-2 generations ago now has descendants who have no and never had any real Jewish ties so they no longer identify themselves as such. The version of Judaism they offered, which lacked any challenging religious content and substituted Left-ism instead, has allowed its youth to simply identify as Leftists or Progressives, but not as Jews.
18. American Jews
Moshe ,   Jerusalem   (08.26.13)
For the majority of non-orthodox "Jews" in The US of A, their religion is Liberal Democracy, their race or ethnicity if you will is Jewish (not always maternal). The reform movement is on a downward slide because the new generations are being raised with zero knowledge of or connection and affinity to the traditions, rituals and practices. Ergo they lack to tools to make an active commitment to being Jewish. I have heard this sentiment repeated not by Ultra-orthodox but rather by non-orthodox involved with the unaffiliated. Kids who don't know what Sabbath is or have no experience with Jewish holidays.
19. Error in article Where are the Modern Orthodox?
Shalom Freedman ,   Jerusalem Israel   (08.26.13)
This article speaks about Orthodox Jews as Haridim and modern Haridim. It does not recognize the Modern Orthodox. How can the article in any way be taken seriously if it cannot even identify one of the central streams, and for many the truest and most beneficial stream of Judaism?
20. American first then Jews! GOOD !
(08.26.13)
This is the way it has to be! In France, jews are also French first and then Jews. This support the social cohesion in between communities. That shows how a minority is respected and therefore included in the majority. In Israel it's the opposite, and that's why there's no cohesion in the Israeli society. Minorities aren't respected and don't feel part of the majority. If in Israel there would be an Israeli identity FIRST and then whatever minority identity (religion, sexual affiliation or whatever), there would be a national cohesion and people would feel first Israeli. Drop the ethnocentrist separationist attitude
21. reforms failed to transmit to offsprings
trump   (08.26.13)
their marvelous inheritage called Thorah values. Orthodox successfully transmit to next generations therefore -reforms are disappear ing fast ( as in New York City...) -Orthodox remain the only active Jewish denomination !
22. aliyah for ghostbusters only
bill ,   karmiel, israel   (08.26.13)
We made 6 member family aliyah 1 1/2 yrs. ago. Hidden disapproval of our secular status resulted in an attack from Karmiel municipality social workers. All in Hebrew, no translation allowed, financially burdening us to ruin what the Absorption Ministry invested in. A nation divided against itself...religious motives...ghosts from the dark. Reality. Religion + government force the people to "be like us". Americans are used to more freedom of conscience for their own choices.
23. As a secular jew borne in the EU living in IL
Daniel ,   TA - IL   (08.26.13)
I can onluy say to these reform jews that if they want to be americans, be american, if they want to act like christians or in any other way not like jews... then stop pretending to be jewish and make aliyah or stop interfering on behalf of antijewish interests!
24. "Orthodox Judaism is a powerful, coercive political force"
dr harry ,   Jerusalem, Israel   (08.26.13)
You MEAN TORAH is a powerful, coercive political force in Israel. Yes, that is the way it should be. We all stood at Sinai and We all received the SAME TORAH. There were no Streams of Judaism then. ONE TORAH, ONE PEOPLE. We are ALL Brothers and Sisters. "YOU", want to be like all other Nations. WE, want to live a Torah life, here in Our Land, Eretz Yisrael. We have to be strong, to protect the 3325 unbroken Link from Sinai. "YOU", with your made up ways, are the force trying to break that Link. Reform numbers are dropping, as expected, and Jews turning away from Torah has NOTHING to do with Israel. "YOU" are using the situation in Israel to deflect the REAL issue. Someone who TRULY wants to return Home, is welcomed, and will be helped to try to overcome all issues if possible. TORAH life is NOT a choice, a pick and choose religion, therefore it a blessing that it is "a default position of the Jewish state."
25. Place of Reform in Jewish history
Sherlock Holmes ,   London England   (08.26.13)
I felt sure that Jay Ruderman was related to Jacob Ruderman, the Gaon and Rosh Yeshivah of Ner Israel [Baltimore] but he assures me he isn't. Let's look at the origins of Reform. 19th C. German Jews were assimilating in large numbers and Reform was meant to slow down the exodus. The Conservative Movement began as Modern Orthodox [English-speaking rabbis] and was meant to slow down the exodus from American Orthodoxy. In Britain and France the figures are quite different. Of afilliated Jews about 80% are nominally Orthodox, three per cent Conservative and seventeen percent Reform. As in Britain and France, in Israel Reform is seen as alien to authenric Judaism. Native Israelis do not identify with Reform's actively gay and lesbian rabbis performing male-on-male marriages and intermarriages. Reform rejected the concept of a Return to Zion, the Hebrew language the Ritual Law [Shabbos, Kashrus, Mikveh etc] and therefore it's no surprise that few native Israelis look to Reform.
26. No17, so? what's your point?
(08.26.13)
Why would you force someone to identify himself as something he doesn't rely to? Just because he was born this way???
27. Reform blames Orthodox For Assimilation
Sane   (08.26.13)
The definition of Chutzpah.
28. True
John ,   Europe   (08.26.13)
Even my rabbi here is virulent against reforms, looks down on them, speaks ill on them - and he is orthodox. You cannot imagine how this leaves bad taste. I know at least 3 people, myself included, who does not come to synagogue for this reason INCLUDED (there are others, but this one is certainly within them). I mean, reforms through their donations and participation in Jewish Organization help orthodox around the world and they repay with THIS? This is travesty.
29. The Clinton Wedding
Akiva ,   NYC   (08.26.13)
When the First Daughter got married there was a Chuppa, Ketuba, Sheva Brachot, a bridegroom in tallis and yamulka -- and a Methodist minister and a Reform Rabbi -- on Shabbos! If Reform represents intermarriage covered up with Jewish tinsel, it's no surprise the honest Israelis are not impressed. Reform can build asll the temples and schools they want in Israel, but the fact is that Israelis are not impressed and prefer Halachic Judaism for the occasions they do something religious.
30. Daniel, what is "to act like a jew"?
(08.26.13)
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