Opinion
Jewish enough to survive?
Yehuda Shohat
Published: 05.11.13, 19:53
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1. Anyone ready to join us in daily fight for this country is
tom ,   tel aviv   (11.05.13)
Jewish enough for me. If Torah says otherwise: that's Torah's problem. One should be able to be born, raised, married and buried without having to come into contact with the unclean (in every way) body of Rabbinate & it's "blessings". If one wishes to be guided in life by the Dark Force, that's their prerogative.
2. A Guir is a little more than a conversion
Yael Schlichting ,   Munich   (11.05.13)
If someone does the Giur, she also wants to become part of the peoples of Israel. Within about a year, this person also will become eligible to make Aliyah. This is pretty much. If you want to become a citizen in Germany, it takes a few years more. But to come back to the basic issue: Judaism is different from Christianity or Islam or Buddhism. So it's only natural, that there are different views on the matter in Judaism than they are in countries with a Christian-occidental order. I find it totally unreasonable to demand Judaism may adopt Christian or Islamic views on that matter. Vice versa, Christian and Muslim countries are totally unable to become more tolerant towards Jewish views and understanding. Judaism ensures the identity of the Jewish people, softening the conditions of a Giur, on the long run will endanger the Jewish identity.
3. We need more Jews.
Zechariah   (11.05.13)
We need more Jews most Jews now are atheist or agnostic and outside Israel in the USA intermarriage is high .In the Gallus I've noted children of mixecd marriage follow the genetic and environmental rules and seem to disappear into the host countries .So that's Israel positive much less assimilation but alot of proud Seculars .It would be good to go the way of reforming conversion to make it easier as the Jews may needed a few more Armies.
4. Antitquity
Mark ,   London   (11.05.13)
As far as I can make out there was massive FORCED conversion to Judaism in antiquity in addition to voluntary conversions all over the Mediterranean basin and lands surrounding Eretz Yisrael. The lack of welcome for converts is a later accretion and a response to anti-jewish societies. In a Jewish state the call for conversions of convenience are greater but is a means of facilitating integration and assimilation over a couple of generations. It is completely analagous to naturalisation in other countries.
5. Yael, your comment is not pertinent
(11.05.13)
You forgot to mention the most important part: what is being Jewish? Who's Jewish?
6. conversion
kimberly ,   tampa, usa   (11.06.13)
Let me just say I know Jews By Choice and Converted Jews who know their Judaism better and are more devoted to it than natural born Jews!! If someone decides to be Jewish it's because THEY WANT TO! Why is this such a big problem with so much debate!? Oye Vey!!! Religion is a personal choice, many of the women of the Bible were not born Jews. How many hoops did they have to jump through??
7. Conversion
Simcha ,   Port Lavaca Tx. USA   (11.06.13)
The Jewish people haven't been strictly Simitic since the 6th century BCE. We have been scattered everywhere. And We Absorbed people of all cultures, which is why many countries leaders became worried that we were growing in numbers. This makes us strong! Not weak! We must be joyful!
8. Converts come to Tora-Hashem, NOT to abominable blackcoats
Torah-keeper ,   Israel   (11.06.13)
who claim authority above God to overturn Torah to suit their whim Older than these old reprobates is NOT ancient nor Biblical Tora & Hashem are Wonderful. Blackcoats are simply dark ages evil-doer elitist persecutors
9. Yehuda Shohat: These type of conversions
Israeli 2   (11.06.13)
are called the easy slip ins of more Erev Rav. Let the Erev Rav march on. The more Erev Rav, the better. Let them all just come in and further destroy Judaism, be pro BDS and anti-Israel but most importantly, they are going to re-write the Torah. Ain't that swell?
10. Judaism will soon cease to exist as an ethnicity
Ehud ,   Tampa   (11.06.13)
It will not be an ethnicity as massive assimilation by uninterested Jews which is currently taking place will be answered by converting anybody who wants to be ¨Jewish¨ in order to save Judaism. It will not be a religion either, since new converts will be accepted to the ¨club¨ solely for the purpose of saving Judaism and will not be in effect pressured to practice the religion at all, probably not even get circumcised. I see Judaism in the future basically as a cult, an association, like the Branch Davidians and the Bildeberg group whose only purpose will be to distinguish it´s members from non members and to give them a supposed sense of supremacism and elitism.
11. The Rabbinate is NOT in the spirit ...
Jay Abouaf ,   Jaffa   (11.06.13)
...of our forefathers. Avraham was far more accepting, wise and kind than the indifferent, negative and bureaucratic Rabbinate of today.
12. Converts will survive trusting Tora & haShem NOT blackcoats!
Jew by choice ,   Israel   (11.06.13)
medievals who are opposite of Tora
13. I converted under the Rabbinate here...
Shachar ,   Eilat   (11.06.13)
And it's not that bad. If you want to become Jewish you will pass the course and even enjoy it. There's a lot to learn and it takes time but that only makes it infinitely better than the superficial Christian and Moslem conversions.
14. 11 - ur right, the Rabbinate r the head Dark Ages blackcoats
Jew by choice ,   Israel   (11.06.13)
we signed on for Tora, not to bow down to these late-comer Tora-usurping arrogants
15. Jewish-Shmewish!
Convert ,   World   (11.06.13)
True converts are drawn to Tora, NOT the All-Munificent "Jewish" status. Your racist elitism is shameful, disgusting and putrid! and certainly NOT to everyone (atheists, homosexuals, Dark Ages medievals, etc.) whom the Rabbinate recognizes as "Jewish"!!! I'll adhere to Tora. I'm "Jewish" only because that's the result, not because it's anything to aspire to or be proud of!
16. Rabbinate Thinking Equals Pharisee Thinking
World Citizen ,   the world   (11.06.13)
And one only has to read the words of Jesus to know what the Pharisees were.
17. Happy # 1 isn't 'in charge', we would die out instantly
Jewboy ,   IL   (11.06.13)
18. 15Bottle Bordeau Shmordo wine...
ORA ,   JERUSALEM   (11.06.13)
Bottles filled with top Bordeau wines are appreciated.Empty they are worthless. Jews committed to the Jewish magnificent heritage ,the Tora, may show self esteem. Not arrogance!
19. 1Tom,You don't have to listen to..
ORA ,   JERUSALEM   (11.06.13)
Rabbis,but in your best interest don't start a fight with them. There are better ways to get what you want from life.
20. difficult
Zsolt ,   Wanganui,NZ   (11.07.13)
Well, if we think about the two principles of being "Jewish" based on Abraham's method and the oath we have taken at the reception of the Torah: to directly connect without any mediators to the single governing force of reality, and then to become "Light onto the Nations", to help the rest of humanity connect to the same force;... becoming and remaining Jewish is not easy.
21. to #10 Ehud in Tampa
Bluegrass Picker ,   Afula   (11.07.13)
your crystal ball is fractured. Half the "american Jews" will become Satmar-flavored, the other half will be Jews for Atheism at UC Bezerkeley, with massive bureaucracies of over-paid "community professionals". The new kid on the block is the Israeli-American ethnic identity. 2015 will be the year they start showing their strength by having functioning SECULAR, Hebrew-language-immersion kindergardens in all the major US cities.
22. Discrimination
(11.07.13)
Discrimination and hypocrisy of the commandment; thou shall honour your father and mother but you are Jew if your mother is Jew but not your father. How can miserable women pushed back on buses sustain Israel citizenship in today DNA? No wonder the land is still laying waste and this conversion law needs to look at eliminating discrimination against children born to women as well as men.
23. 20 Great achievements... never easy.
ORA ,   JERUSALEM   (11.07.13)
24. I despair sometimes
Tim ,   Brighton   (11.07.13)
When I meet many people who are drawn to Judaism, who feel Jewish and want to become Jewish more than many Jews I know.. yet the obstacles are often harsh, often arbitrary and often punishing How do you expect for example a couple in their seventies - who want to embrace Judaism to go through the rigours of 3 year conversion process? How do you expect a young couple with very young children to find the time to go through such intensive study for conversion? The Religious Leaders need to adopt a much more personal and sympathetic approach..and look at each individual persons situation on its own merits
25. 50/50
Jarvis ,   Joseph USA   (11.07.13)
1st. The word Jew is not mentioned in Torah. I find when the word Jew is mentioned in TANAK it is in reference to those that came from or where in Jerusalem.IE Jews instead of Jeruselemites or Jeruselamians. 2nd. I Love the Jews of today because with out them there would be no one to keep the Torah for me. We know that Jews have different beliefs. For instance... The eating of things considered unclean. Sure it is unclean according to the law but that is not the whole law. The whole law would read.You shall not eat any beast that cheweth not the cud and splitteth not the hoof, however if you do you shall be unclean until the even. It is why some Jews do not care about kashrut. Yeah one is a born Jew but believes in satan as adversary and a cherubim as savior. While another called Jew belives in One that is Adversary and Savior, First and Last. I asked a wise Rabbi " How come when I come and ask for conversion you give me the cold shoulder?." The response was " we don't like to play with peoples souls." In understanding this I realized a Jew can be cursed and a Jew can be blessed. Where there is absolutely no chance for others the chance in human terms for a Jew is 50/50. As for me, My Lord choses but I would have never known it if I couldn't match what has been shown to that which is in TORAH. I would have no TORAH to match if it weren't for Jews. If you believe the Shema and Identify The Lord as the one who performs the miracle of salvation and destruction at the red sea, and refuses to worship man made images you are one in the same in my eyes me. Remember no man choses Levi and Levi teaches Jacob and Israel.
26. Difficult Indeed -- and Dangerous
Eliyahu ,   Los Angeles, USA   (11.07.13)
These principles seem innocent enough, and one can rise about the colorful shapes of the nursery school standard. But know that these haven't gone away in college--the physical generalities have just bloomed into the abstract details. If we rise there, we can only do so together. But the dollies become real babies--and we are responsible, and child turned parent means that its no longer all about you. Ahavat Yisroel becomes our right hand, and antisemitism our left. Life and death--all our responsibility, and we'll at last know how hard it is to be a Jew. Are we really prepared to rise above the standard? -- We may have no choice, but for all the lack of what is simply seen, it will not be easier--grander, vastly--but it will not be easier. Are we ready to understand Chazal--really understand Chazal...
27. The "rabbinate" in Israel, specifically the CHIEF Rabbinates
Yehuda ,   Israel   (11.07.13)
want to turn their office into something like the Pope in the Vatican..... TOTAL power over all Jews and all the money and privilege that comes with that. And just as corrupt.
28. Conversion...
JeanH ,   USA   (11.09.13)
Lets check the DNA of the mother of ALL the Cheridim! Especially the Azkanazim! Perhaps this is HaShem;s blueprint...DNA...
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