Opinion  Nahum Barnea
Israeli-Palestinian talks are going nowhere
Nahum Barnea
Published: 01.04.14, 00:28
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28 Talkbacks for this article
1. Do israelis want a future?
spyguy ,   seattle usa   (04.01.14)
The bottom line that most israelis seem to ignore is the current situation with millions of state-less people can NOT continue forever. The situation MUST be resolved by negotiations where BOTH SIDES are reasonably happy or there will be massive war and there is a very high probability that Israel will lose, everything. The non-Jews living west of the Jordan River are NOT "magically" going to disappear and will not remain powerless and stateless forever. Israel has NO weapons or warfare lead. The world has caught up with the US and Israel. So what type of non-fantasy future do Israelis want?
2. Secret agreement
Israeli 2   (04.01.14)
Israel, the USA and the Pals have promised each other not to sign a peace agreement ever. This is all a facade. It's better this way.
3. Yo, Dude:the"World" can live without Ukraine, it surely will
tom ,   tel aviv   (04.01.14)
be able to live without Fakestine! That's the way it looks for now, doesn't it? Stop fussing over this Shoa-denying "Doctor" and shove him out of our Land together with other pollutants....
4. This article is pure nonsense.
Michael Pielet ,   Israel   (04.01.14)
What exactly have the arabs contributed towards peace. exactly nothing. Another mayor of Chelm speaks.
5. You forget, Obama saw '67 borders as "starting point"
Steve Benassi ,   Silver Bay, MN USA   (04.01.14)
...way back in May, 2011. Obama set Israel up for failure, forcing 9 months of negotiations, proving Israel wants land, not peace. Clearing way for Obama UNSC '67 borders, after November Midterm Elections this year.
6. US Disengagement
Mark ben Josef ,   USA   (04.01.14)
The US disengaging from the entire conflict resolution effort world wide is already a subject of debate in the US. Kerry disengaging now if asked politely as suggested would be a blessing to the US. Not sure if either Abbas or Netanyahu can ask as politely as suggested.
7. Bi national - Obvious. Dont Forget the refugees.
Zizi   (04.01.14)
8. Bibi must be fired if he fails in this peace process.
Michael ,   California, USA   (04.01.14)
But if Bibi will deliver a peace agreement with security guarantees from the U.S., he will become the most important man in the history of Israel.
9. Agree, USA Out Including ...
Jersey Jew ,   Newport Beach, USA   (04.01.14)
continued long-time diplomatic, financial$$$, military, technology, economic, etc support. Let the dominant occupying party of @50 years & the very weak occupied resolve the status quo themselves leveraging whatever support they can. Personally, let's go with the Caroline Glick & Abbas Jr. 1-State solution and let sow what they have reaped ...
10. Shema Yisrael Adonai Elohaynu
ASTRONAUT ,   SC, USA   (04.01.14)
Adonai Echad. Everything else is fodder for the goats.
11. Good Article. Two Glaring Errors.
Reuven Brauner ,   Raanana, Israel   (04.01.14)
1. There is no "occupation". It is a Jewish reclamation of historically Jewish land. 2. It is not necessary that we will turn into "an apartheid state, ostracized in the West, morally undermined...". That is just old-fashioned Leftist hype.
12.  Peace process as an obstacle to peace
mohamed ,   bethlehem, Palestine   (04.01.14)
Its not fair to blame the victim . Living under occupation is not human.
13. Er...
TaylorT ,   Earth   (04.01.14)
The author states, ". Our prime minister and the head of the Palestinian Authority are not children in need of a nanny" Ha! That's EXACTLY what you are. The only difference is the Palestinians have people in their corner. Many in the world sympathize with them. No one but a few American politicians tolerate Israel. Israelis might be so arrogant to think they'd be better off without the US, but the reality is it will lead to sanctions against Israel and its leaders indicted by the ICC. All of which will embolden your enemies. A smart people would know this. But then again a smart people wouldn't have gotten repeatedly slaughtered.
14. 12
y Allon ,   Adelaide/Israel   (04.01.14)
You are not living under occupation-you are free to live in an Arab country any time you wish.They are your brothers and will of course treat you as an Arab.That should appeal to you-Right?
15. the trains keep running
(04.01.14)
One of the mysteries of the Third Reich is that they kept the trains to the camps running. Even in 1945 when they were losing and they could have used the trains to save something, the trains to the camps kept running. Fast forward to 2014. Obama surrenders to Putin after a lot of bluster. Finland cancels the purchase of American air defense missiles. North Korea launches rockets in the direction of South Korea. China is actively threatening Japan, Phillipines and other countries. Iran is continuing uranium enrichment and developing delivery systems. Assad is continuing his advances. Erdogan has started attacks in support of anti-Syrian jihadis. Egypt and Saudi Arabia are actively showing contempt for Obama. Yet what is the only thing that interests Obama and Kerry? Forcing Israel to surrender to PLO, going so far as to use Pollard as a new Gilad Shalit.
16. #12 you are right
(04.01.14)
PLO and Hamas both believe, and it is their right, that the Jews must be destroyed and Israel cease to exist for there to be peace. The Jews want to stay alive, and that is their right also, even if you disagree. Since their is no compromise possible between these two ideas, something must change. One option is that the Jews get exterminated. Another option is that the Arabs who don't want to live under Jewish rule move to the rest of the Middle East where, unlike Israel, there are natural resources, water and space in endless quantities. As for the "occupation" as you call it. The best place in the Middle East for Arabs to live except as as Israeli citizens is under the Israeli "occupation": your life and property are safe and your standard of living is high.
17. #1. Israel has fabulous future without Fictional Palestine.
Chaim ,   Israel   (04.01.14)
Logic tells us "Palestinian" statehood won't ever happen. No matter how many meaningless statehood proclamations are made. Palestine statehood didn't fly when Labor governed Israel and there were hardly any Jews in Judea and Samaria. It sure won't fly now. Israel has a fabulous future without Fictional Palestine.
18. The Palestinians Are Jordanian
Joe ,   USA   (04.01.14)
19. #13. Law is 100 per cent on Israel's side.
Chaim ,   Israel   (04.02.14)
First of all, Obama is not America. Obama is America's huge but temporary mistake. Countless polls show Israel ranks high among states Americans like. The P.A. ranks near the bottom. Secondly, law is entirely on Israel's side. Countless international law experts, including Eugene Rostow and his fellow drafters of UN Resolution 242 have proven this. The ICC would have to completely trash international law to rule against Israel. Its credibility would be totally destroyed. As for sanctions, BDS grows more impotent every day. Israel grows richer and stronger all the time.
20. Good article, up to a point...
Ozraeli ,   Australia   (04.02.14)
The article was surpringly good, up to the 2nd last paragraph. The BDS BS; the "adoption of "apartheid" self destructive belief; the Chicken Little "Woe is us" is just unbelievable. Declarations of "apartheid" have no basis in fact, whether by numbers, population percentages, history, civil activities, or philosophical approach. It is adopted by ignorant sensationalists, usually journalists or politicians. BDS is a failure, & purely a sensationalist subject for media rating & screaming. Israel has multitudes of friends; perhaps not as big as the US, but plenty of quiet believers who don't make noise. BTW, is the US under Obama really a friend? If Israel was not a positive, constructive country, it would never have survived until now. Very few people actually believe the Fakestanian BS narrative, or even care; it is just convenient politically not to be too one sided-but the help is there behind the scenes. Does anyone care about someone down the street, around the corner, up on the 14th floor, if they get cancer or have an accident, unless they are your friend/relative? Does anyone give a s__t about a miniscule number of corrupt Welfare Queen goat herders & camel jockeys thousands of km's away, bitching about their "inalienable rights" from 70 years ago? Does anyone give a s__t about a tiny enclave the size of Sussex County, New Jersy, perhaps 50% habitable, thousands of km away? I wonder: How (unless they are under immediate, direct threat) do the Jews manage to so thoroughly screw themselves? No one - & I mean NO ONE would allow this crap to accumulate like this, aside from Jews & Israelis. Every othe countrywould have had Abbas & his friends looking for the Malaysian Airline plane from sea level years ago - without a raft or paddle. It makes me regret Israel not sinking Arafat in the boats on the way to Tunis in 1982... Barnea, stop whining.
21. #18 - no one is buying that lie
spyguy ,   seattle usa   (04.02.14)
Certainly not Jordan. Basically Israel is stuck with ALL the humans west of the Jordan River, so now you need to figure out how to have a viable long term country. You ONLY have two choices: (1) DIVIDE the land fairly or SHARE the land fairly. The non-Jewish humans living west of the Jordan River are STAYING no matter how delusional you are. When will Israelis understand they have built a house of cards that will fall on them and crush them unless they take it apart a piece at a time.
22. The Forever Trap
Bill ,   New York, USA   (04.02.14)
The talk about the inevitability of a deal or a one-state solution is delusional. The status quo can continue indefinitely. The Palestinians have worked up quite a narrative of being victims. Of course, they are discretionary victims, as when people really are enduring "inhuman" conditions, they do not make all-or-nothing demands. People in truly inhuman conditions instead try for a deal that ends whatever victimization is going on and bargain away the relatively unimportant things. But the Palestinian choice to have Designated Victim status has consequences for them. To join the international system of nation-states requires a recognized willingness to exercise agency, a sense of responsibility. Every argument they make that they cannot exercise responsibility helps to continue the status quo. This is really the only explanation that makes sense. Arafat was on the cusp of a state and launched a war to focus on glory over governance. Fayyad had a successful stint and is now gone and forgotten. Now Obama and Kerry are facing someone in Abbas who, when he is given a concession, demands a greater concession to push an agreement out of sight. Does he seem like someone who wants to govern a responsible state? So Israel has some unpleasant but totally bearable days ahead. Instead of being Designated Victim, it is Ultimate Agent. Because Israel is seen as vastly capable, much is expected even if not fair and a lot of criticism accrues. But the world economy and many armed forces need capable agents, so they will never take things too far. So Israel never wants to be a victim again and the Palestinians never want to be responsible for themselves. So this is going to last a while.
23. #22 - History says you are wrong
spyguy ,   seattle usa   (04.02.14)
The simple reality is unless Israel treats the non-Jews living west of the Jordan River fairly, they will explode and take down the state of Israel with them. Israel can not survive when half the population is stateless, powerless and have no hope. When people have nothing to live for, they have no fear and will ensure that they kill as many of their oppressors as they can before they die. If you really think that Israel can oppress over half their population forever, you are ignoring over 10000 years of human history that says you are dead wrong. You will not want to be in Israel when the non-Jews explode. and if you think any other country on earth will help you continue the oppression, you are completely wrong. Israel is choosing a very bad path.
24. #13 Er....yourself
Eaglebeak ,   Left Coast, USA   (04.02.14)
Sure the ersatz pals have people in their corner. Without them to sponge off of the Pals couldn't stand up. They are not capable of running a state. As to the U.S. Israel needs to depend on and turn to God and not Uncle Sam.
25. #23 Stateless?
Eaglebeak ,   Left Coast, USA   (04.02.14)
Arafat was an Egyptian. Egypt is a state. Many of the ersatz pals have states, Jordan is a good example. How many states do they need?
26. #23, "History" is not a being that says stuff
Bill ,   New York, USA   (04.02.14)
The easy response is that the Palestinians are not "their" population. The Israeli Arabs and the Palestinians are not in the same situation, so your attempt to add together populations to support your conclusions has no foundation. Beyond that, your own response shows up the problem with your argument. If the Palestinians were truly hopeless with "nothing to live for", a peace offer that gets them half a loaf rather than the full loaf, i.e. the entirely of their negotiating position, is something they would accept on the spot. Really, they would have accepted it long before. The fact that they regularly turn down offer after offer is the best evidence there is that they do not regard the situation as all that bad. It is like someone who has the opportunity to have their metastasizing cancer cured but declines because of the risk of athlete's foot from the treatment. The balance of your comments about "10000 years of history" are pure rhetoric and do not mean anything. Finally, regarding the possibility of "explosion", the Palestinians have already tried that. Israel won that battle ten years ago while learning new battlefield tactics. Every round of explosions gives Israel the legal and moral justification for taking things a step further. Israel's economy is light years ahead of where it was even in 2000 when the last explosion started. And the Palestinians' situation worsened. Do you really want to see what the outcome will be after another "explosion"? It may not be what you think it will be.
27. # 1 Silly boy
BUILD BABY BUILD!!!!   (04.02.14)
Israel took out wo muslim nations nuclear facilities... surely removing illegal land grabbing pals will be a piece of cake. Should Abb ass continue his UN romance you can count on it.. Annexation and Repatriation to Jordan, Mecca, or hell any place but Israel. KEEPING BUSY BUILDING !!! !!!
28. No either or...
MarcV ,   Miami, USA   (04.02.14)
Why is Israel being blamed for no progress in these talks when its Abbas who won't compromise on maximalist positions from 20 years ago and keeps threatening to end negotiations? The PLO could get over 80% of the land and a symbolic presence in East Jerusalem right now. Pretty good since they have turned down all offers for 66 years while losing 3 wars and 2 intifadas. They need to be treated as defeated not as victors. If they walk away from talks the alternatives are not one-state or apartheid. Israel can just annex what it wants of Area C and declare new borders, just like Putin did. Then leave the PLO the rest.
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