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IDF digs in for legal battle over Gaza op
Associated Press
Published: 05.09.14, 01:06
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17 Talkbacks for this article
1. IDF actions are perfectly acceptable
jochair ,   kfar saba Israel   (09.05.14)
the destruction of homes and buildings is nothing in comparison to genocideOplitically It would have been best to announce to the world that the purpose of " rock of Ages" was to destroy all homes and buildings in Gaza, Leaving Hamas no choice but to disappear from the area. ICC will applaud it. not condemn
2. What a joke?
Jerome ,   AKL   (09.05.14)
The Islamic army is already in Syria making its way to Europe, is eyeing India and have already beheaded American citizens. What is preoccupying the world, is little Israel and an invented group of savages called the palis. Do you now understand where the expression "goy's head" comes from?
3. Once more, patiently - 1 of 2
Sarah B ,   U.S.A. / Israel   (09.05.14)
1. First of all, the ICC has no jurisdiction over Israel and Israeli nationals. Israel has not ratified the Rome Treaty, which established the ICC. The ICC's mandate not only does not include non-treaty states, but specifically excludes non-signatory nations. Israel, on the other hand, has every right to hale Hamas before the International Court of Justice in The Hague, which has jurisdiction over the prosecution of terrorist organizations and individual terrorists who are guilty of war crimes and crimes against humanity. 2. That Hamas is guilty of war crimes is indisputable and supported by mounds of evidence -- deliberately targeting civilian populations, as Hamas openly acknowledges doing, is a war crime. 3. Under all precepts of international law, the use by a terrorist organization -- keep in mind that Hamas is widely considered to be a terrorist organization -- of schools, hospitals, mosques and civilian dwellings to (i) cache weapons, and (ii) as staging grounds for missile and mortar attacks renders those schools, hospitals, mosques and civilian dwellings legitimate military targets. That is black-letter law. 4. Israel is a sovereign state. As such, like all sovereign states, it has an affirmative duty to protect and defend its citizens. Put a bit more bluntly, like it or not, Israel's right to destroy schools, hospitals, mosques and civilian dwellings is greater that are used to cache weapons used against Israelis is greater than the rights of the people who authorize the caching of weapons, the storage of those weapons, the use of those facilities as terror launch sites. Israel's duty to protect its civilians is also greater than the right that civilians in Gaza have to be accorded protection in those schools, hospitals, mosques and civilian dwellings. That's actually a key point -- Israel has a duty to its civilians; Hamas, as the governing authority in Gaza, has a duty not to endanger the lives of noncombatants in Gaza. The fact that Hamas attacked Israeli civilians makes them war criminals; the fact that Hamas deliberately endangered the lives of noncombatants in Gaza makes them guilty of crimes against humanity.
4. Once more, patiently - 2 of 2
Sarah B ,   U.S.A. / Israel   (09.05.14)
5. The photographs and other documented evidence which Israel has should be used proactively. Ad campaigns; public speaking events; courts of law. Israel should actively seek censure of the UNRWA, and criminal indictments against the UNRWA for aiding and abetting terrorists. Indictment of United Nations officials should also be pursued, because it is the United Nations that funds the UNRWA, thereby making the United Nations party to a conspiracy to attack innocent civilians in Israel. That is the legal effect of having allowed United Nations schools to be used as missile storage facilities and missile launching sites. Remember, too, that a key element of war crimes and crimes against humanity is that defenses such as "I had no choice" or "I was forced to do it" or "I was only following orders" are not legitimate excuses, and there is a long list of hanged Nazis and Nazi collaborators that proves the futility of such defenses. Finally, the United Nations should be forced to account for the criminal activities of its largest and best-funded agency -- the UNRWA -- before Israel extends a scintilla of cooperation with United Nations "investigators." Such an "investigation" is a priori tainted because of the criminal conduct of the United Nations and the UNRWA. The United Nations must "clean house" to Israel's satisfaction before the commencement of any investigation. 6. Israel should refuse access to Gaza of any organization or investigators until Hamas is brought to account for its war crimes and crimes against humanity. If this results in delay of aid reaching Gaza, so be it. The case law on this is clear. The Allies did nothing for Germany, did not start Marshall Plan funding, until the war crimes trials had ended, sentences passed and executed, and de-Nazification concluded. More German civilians died then died during the carpet bombing of Germany as a result. Priorities were established: criminals had to be brought to justice. Nothing for Gaza, then, until its criminal "leadership" has been brought to justice. That is res judicata, and has never been modified, amended or softened since the end of World War II. There is no reason to modify, amend the soften that policy now.
5. To: Facebook Art Tsonis
Sarah B ,   U.S.A. / Israel   (09.05.14)
Under international law, culpable conduct accrues to the organization and individuals who initiate the necessity to bomb certain areas in order to protect and defend populations who are mercilessly subjected to constant missile and mortar barrages. This means that the sovereign State of Israel, which has an affirmative duty to protect and defend its citizens, had no choice but to bomb the areas where such missiles and mortars were cached and the locations from which they were actively launched. The law does not care about the Iron Dome missile defense system. The law does not care about Israel's greater and superior firepower. The law does not care how many civilians may have been sheltering in places where missiles and mortars were stockpiled, or the locations from which they were launched against Israel. The law looks to INTENT, not efficacy. Hamas and other terrorist elements in Gaza initiated the missile and mortar fire against Israeli civilians. The State of Israel has a sovereign, affirmative and inalienable duty to protect and defend its citizens. The right of Israel to defend its people exceeds anything else, assuming the exclusive use of conventional weapons, and Israel used only conventional weapons. The noncombatant population of Gaza is NOT Israel's concern. They are Hamas' concern, as Hamas is the ruling authority in Gaza. Hamas shirked its duty, and demonstrated a callous disregard for the lives of the civilians of Gaza. The fact that they did so makes Hamas guilty of crimes against humanity -- they are as responsible for the death of civilians in Gaza as if they had machine-gunned those civilians. Hamas is equally guilty of war crimes, for having deliberately targeted civilian areas in the sovereign State of Israel. Your problem is that you spend about 10 seconds of every day worrying about the civilians of Gaza. You spend the balance of the twenty-four hours exercising your virulent hatred of Jews and of the State of Israel. That blinds you to the practical realities of the rules that govern military engagement. It also makes it incredibly easy to swat down your arguments and your ridiculous statements. Face it -- you're an idiot. There is no cure for stupidity, and you are definitely terminally dumb.
6. UN verses Israel
Kay Christensen ,   Salt Lake City, USA   (09.05.14)
Why does the AP never mention the war crime inherent in deliberately targeting civilians with over 4,000 rockets and mortars. Were it not for Iron Dome and shelters, thousands of innocent Israelis would have died, not to mention the additional thousands that could have died and been kidnapped had the terror tunnels been used for their horrific purpose. Should Israel face the wrath of the UN because they chose to protect their citizens and prevent mass casualties instead of putting the money into terror tunnels and chose not to use their women and children as shields?
7. Is this to be another PA PR stunt?
Sammy ,   Newcastle   (09.05.14)
Yet again using something else as a diversion, disruption and delay rather than getting down to serious negotiations and state building? As for a legal case of War Crimes..against Israel this has as much of a chance of standing up to scrutiny as Mashaal giving up his luxury lifestyle. Because it is crystal clear that Hamas initiated the war, Hamas were targeting Israeli civilians and Hamas were callously using theirs as cannon fodder And yet PA want to take up this hopeless cause ON BEHALF OF THE very Hamas who betrayed us ? Have they gone cuckoo? And the PA wanting to fight in the Courts at the real risk of embittering and undermining relations with Israel maybe for years to come - relations that are vital for negotiations to Statehood, our external security and our economic progress Yet again this is more of a case of Mashaal School of Politics 'We don't care how much damage and hurt it causes our people OR PUR NATIONAL INTEREST..so long as we get at Israel' Surely we have learned BETTER by now?
8. #3&#4: WELL said!!!
Paqid Yirmeyahu ,   www.netzarim.co.il   (09.05.14)
9. #3 & #4 Sarah B. Bravo!!! Keep up the good work please!
Son of Cyrus ,   UK   (09.05.14)
10. The Best Defense is still Offense
TC   (09.05.14)
What about sueing Hamas to the ICC for a change, don't you think we too have a case?
11. SarahB-Very clear opinion.I hope Israel Legal Dept is noting
Alan ,   SA   (09.05.14)
your posts in their entirety. Excellent legal thinking. First Rate I think they are one of your best postings!
12. ICC team
Oliver ,   Austria   (09.05.14)
Put PERES on the team! The world sees him as the personification of peace and his dovish rhetorics skills will be helpful!
13. the correct approach
(09.05.14)
There is only politics, there is no such thing as International Law or justice, just look at how NATO illegally destroyed Yugoslavia and Libya. This is because easiest thing to do is to take words like "proportionate" and distort them to mean whatever one wants to reach a desired result, like exonerate Hamas for murdering children while condemning the Jew for self defense. The correct approach to defend Israe in the ICCl is to bring war crimes charges against Obama and Cameron for their actions in Afghanistan and Libya, and then judge Israel by the exact same standards. Since Obama and Cameron will never be found guilty, Israel will be safe.
14. #6 Simple answer, just like the United Nothings
A ,   Belgium   (09.05.14)
and it's evil child called UNWRA, AP is nothing but A.rab P.ropaganda. Their journalism relating to Israel is as balanced as that of Al-Jazeera or Maan.
15. IDF
Steve Gure ,   Coconut Creek USA   (09.05.14)
Non sense. The IDF does not need lawyers. What they need is direction in fighting their enemies and accomplishing thei mission which is to protect Israel. Theyt have not done that well in my opinion.
16. investigations of israel is all about politics, not law
CJK   (09.05.14)
absolutely no one really cares about the arab palestinians. what everyone cares about is to make all attempts to destroy, diminish, harass, the jewish state of israel. under obama, even the united states has joined this obsession with the jewish state. obama wants to make Israel into a "manageable problem," very much like he wants to make the islamic state into a manageable problem.
17. #3-4 If only Israel's leaders were so deserving of your
A ,   Belgium   (09.05.14)
patience, there might even be something to hope for regarding gaza...a resort paradise with Israeli chefs and Egyptian waiters...or vise versa...or both, catering to the gold tooth Russians, the a bit too loud Americans, and the "must have the latest toy" Asians. Gaza could have been/ should have been the Monaco of the Middle East, instead it's just another garbage dump run by losers, for the losers, and financed by the losers.
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