Right on, Rav Brackman...spread the good word..

and not Jordan and Egypt. the Egypt and Jordan option is the Apardheidt option.
ISRAEL MUST BECOME A STATE FOR ALL ITS CITIZENS !!! JEWS and NON- JEWS HAVE TO BE EQUAL INFRONT OF THE LAW !!!
this is the ONLY way to a safe and peacefull middle east for all Jews and non Jews !!!

Dear Rabbi,
Are you so unaware of the reasonable expectations of Palestinians that you wish to relegate them to second class citizens of Egypt and Jordan? How selfish are you? Why don't you suggest the same for Israel; after all we could be Jewish citizens of a Jordanian state. Imagine that? How truly callous of you to suggest such a thing.

Giving the Palestinians autonomy within one state (Israel), also means they will be equal citizens of the state of Israel, with the same rights as other Israelis. Just like native Americans are citizens of the USA, with the same democratic rights as other Americans. I can't imagine that this is a desirable solution from a jewish point of view, since it would rob Israel of it's jewish majority. Therefore, for this demographic reason only a 2 state solution seems viable.

Is Brackman describing a hallucination he had once? What convinced him that this idea makes any sense? It's a total non-starter.

First, the Palestinians don't want to be ruled by Jordan and Egypt. I'm not sure how up to date Brackman is but in recent decades the Palestinians have been looking for their own state. They have their own flag and everything. When Jordan was in charge the Palestinians formed Black September and started assassinating Jordanian government officials. So there's no way the Palestinians would accept that now.

Second, why would Egypt or Jordan want to clean up your mess? They have enough problems as it is, not to mention that Egypt is paranoid of the Muslim Brotherhood so they don't want anything to do with Hamas. Plus according to Brackman's scenario any future terrorist attack would be seen as the Egyptian or Jordanian government's fault. Wow, what a great deal. Seriously, why on earth would any Egyptian or Jordanian official in their right mind want to take this on? Would you, if you were in their place?

Brackman says the international community would pressure Egypt and Jordan to do this, which leads to the third issue. Why would the rest of the world want to force Egypt and Jordan to take care of Israel's problem? What possible signal so far leads you to believe that all of a sudden the world is going to take your side here?

Fourth, is Brackman seriously arguing that Jordan and Egypt aren't living up to all of their obligations under a thirty year old treaty? Um, is Israel living up to its obligations under that treaty, or any other treaty that Israel has signed since then? No need to go back to 1978, look at the Roadmap to see plenty of Israeli violations (about settlements for instance). Israel really doesn't want to start lecturing other countries about their treaty obligations.

Fifth, notice that Brackman says "Egypt and Jordan have gotten away with abdicating their responsibilities, as stated in the 1978 Camp David Accords, for far too long and it is about time the international community pressures them to take full responsibility for territory that is really theirs." Wow, so now the West Bank and Gaza don't belong to Israel any more? Because Maaleh Adumim and Ariel and the rest of the settlements didn't show up on the 1978 map. If you're going to make everyone stick to the 1978 map then be prepared to forcibly evacuate hundreds of thousands of settlers. I'm giving Brackman the benefit of the doubt and assuming he wasn't paying attention when he wrote that.

Sixth, I'm also assuming Brackman doesn't really want to use the Indian reservations as an example. Indians get to vote, genius. If Israel decides to keep ruling the West Bank and Gaza (because no way will you ever convince Egypt and Jordan to do it for you), and you use the Indian reservation model, then the next Prime Minister of Israel is going to be Ismail Haniyeh.

So the Palestinians don't want it, the Egyptians don't want it, the Jordanians don't want it, the rest of the world doesn't want it, even the Israelis don't want it once they realize they will have to evacuate the settlements and/or Ismail Haniyeh is their next Prime Minister. Other than that, though, everyone loves this idea. Where do I sign?

This is yet another attempt by pro-settler dead-enders to try and turn lead into gold. The problem is that you are in charge of a bunch of Palestinians and they don't like it, so they are making trouble. If you don't want to deal with their trouble, you need to either let them go free or give them equal rights. Or kill them all. There's no legal trick where, presto-chango, you can keep Palestinian land and make all the Palestinians magically disappear.

There is a lot of truth to this article and the proposal will work and I as a Palestinian will accept if the following conditions are provided:

1- Egypt allows the expansion of Gaza into Sinai allowing dilution of current Gaza area inhabitants into larger area of land and allowing the Gaza Israel border to become less populated and more productive (agriculture and industry), less friction area and more seashore and blue skies.
2- Israel to give-up the West Bank and East Jerusalem as per the 1967 boundaries.
3- Old City to become an international heritage city and is nationality free and shall remain open. A tourist magnate and an example of coexistence and peace.
4- Jordan and Egypt to allow Palestinian refugees who want to return to the areas called Proxy Palestine freely and without conditions.
5-International guarantees to the Hashemite family that they will remain rulers of Jordan after the annexation of West Bank, Jerusalem, return of refugees and the demographic shift in favor of the Palestinian nationality.

You see it is quite complicated for Jordan and Egypt, the nay sayers, to accept this however they will claim this not workable as the Palestinians will refuse.

Going to the native American Indian scenario, we will not pay taxes, we run our casinos and have tax free cigarettes, subsidized education, and freely hunt buffalo and deer all year long. This is fun.

Dear Rabbi, you are a genuine person but realistically and before we propose any solution there is a lot of work to do internally. Unless the Israeli and Palestinian people change their current mindset there will be no solution, today we both feel that the agony of war is far less painful than the concessions for peace. So as long both people feel arrogant, entitled and act with wrongly perceived righteousness. No chance in hell for any coexistence until Palestinians and Israeli start to see that there people on the other side and when we act to hurt them and see their pictures we see them as human beings and victims. Today one is seen as ruthless occupying terrorists and the other is a fundamentalist terrorist. I am sick of seeing pictures kids dead and hearing thank god he would have grown up to become a Palestinian terrorist or a future IDF occupying soldier or settler.
Dear Rabbi, let us work on our people and rid ourselves of our leaderships who are useless and part of the problem because they are blinding us. As far as Obama, well sir since 1948 we had 12 or more US presidents all of whom are committed to solve the Arab Israeli conflict and nothing. It us who will solve when we are ready as people.

Finally a man with a working idea. There will never be a 2 STATE SOLUTION What Rabbi Levi Brackman forgets is that Gaza was erected by the arabs states with Egypt leading as a penal colony for all arabs The people of gaza are the throw outs from all arab states so as is not wanted by the arabs. The ridiculas american idea was a failure from its outset. But as Obama wants CHANGE let him keep his word and change the idea of gaza.

You are just trying to cheat Egypt and Jordan.
Moreover you "forgot" to ask palestinian opinion.
Unless you, rabbies, negotiate honestly, no accord are gonna be possible.

Dear Rabbi, I agree with you if you accept the conditions mentioned above by Farouk... But even this will never work because the Jordanians have enough Palestinians and the Egyptians have enough Egyptians and problems.. and since the two state solution doesn't work anymore because of the existing settlements and the separation wall.. Therefore, the best solution is to keep historical Palestine a unique geographical historical demographical entity and accept the concept of ONE STATE SOLUTION in which all Palestinians and Israelis, Jews, Christians, Muslims and Druze would like together in a democratic state under the same rule of the law..
This is the best solution if you consider the land as our mother, your mother and their mother.. and there is enough place for everybody and lets live together the is the identity of this land and its mystery also, unless we don't understand this enigma we will never have peace..
I know very well the Israeli and Jewish reservations over this solution such as being and Jewish state or a majority and the Arab demographic bomb.. but if work on a true reconciliation between both people and three religions this would be possible and a fantastic example of coexistence as brothers and sisters and sons of our father Abraham.

Another 'expert'.

So he suggests to put egyptian tanks into gaza and Jordan army into the westbank, at Jerusalem's door??
I would feel less safe !

While I fully agree with you, your idea is a bit naive because the train for Palestinian statehood already left the station and at full throttle might I add.

No one is interested in what should be but unfortunately what they have been fed in the form of super revised completely whitewashed history.

Please know at this point even Hamas has been sanitized by much of the world. What people believe is the Palestinians deserve a state because of evil Zionist occupation. Is this not what has been told over and over again? After all, who has dared speak the truth? Where do you hear truth except in history books which no one cares to read for obvious reasons.

Who cares the Palestinian charter calls for the destruction of Israel because the average person believes Israel created that feeling.

Bottom line is truth has been so obscured that what is being told not only by the media but public officials and supposed heads of state is WHAT PEOPLE SEE.

Having said all of that the issue of Jews being persecuted because we are Jews is the most underlying sicking reason for pushing Palestinian statehood. How else can Israel the victim have been made into the supreme pariah if that were not true?

When we see all over the world real genocide, when we see since Woodrow Wilson the Kurds have been promised a state and NO ONE CARES BECAUSE JEWS HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH IT, your dream of Egypt and Jordan stepping up to the plate is utopian at best.


Black gold (oil) and appeasing the Arab/Islamic and Jew hating world at the expense of Israel is what this is all about. How many times have we heard THERE WILL BE NO PEACE IN THE MIDDLE EAST UNTIL PALESTINIAN STATEHOOD?

We are screwed. The deed is done. Now we pay the price. (again)

dear rabbi
do you think we are puppets
or a ball you can play with
we will decide our destiny and only we will do that
the jordan /egypt option is dead since a long time
ultimate peace = palestnian state/
with east jerusalem capital

I think it's a better idea to make Gaza a part of Egypt and the West Bank a part of Jordan. That was the situation before 1967. It's easier to make peace with these countries, then with the Palestinians

must see. If this istruethen Hamasis sicker than I ever dreamed. I am nauseated.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7_OGhj43GAE

While I truly respect your opinion, what you seem to neglect is the fact that the whole Zionist enterprise and the purpose of Israel is to establish a homeland for the Jewish people. Why do we want this? Not only as a refuge in case of anti-Semitism in other countries, but also as a place to live freely as a Jew, and not as a minority living at the mercy of it's gentile host country (who usually haven't been too merciful). We want a land with our own laws, holidays, and army. The Palestinians are fighting for the same thing, and if justice prevails they will succeed with their own Palestinian state, but not at our expense. There are over 50 Islamic states, and over 20 Arab states, is ONE solitary state for Jews too much to ask for?!?

Palestinians never had a country in history and unless they are under guardianship, I believe that they cannot succeed and will only suffer more at the hands of extremists and opportunists.

Your native american analogy makes no sense. Native americans don't have to stay on the reservation and through affirmative action, they get preferential treatment when applying to college etc. So, Palestinians would be free to move from Gaza to any place in Israel? You also suggest that Egypt and Jordan handle the initial law enforcement duties. These are countries that are always one step away from breaking diplomatic relations with Israel. What happens if/when rockets are fired from Gaza when it's under Egyptian control? How does the IDF fight back?

Peace as you describe it will come... but in a very, very long time.
For now, we need a solution for the years to come, that Palestinians will build a normal society and Israel will be safe.

Bravo!
it is the only serious solution
but Obama has to convince mainly Cairo-
revert to
www.nuitdorient.com/n1280.htm
in french

There is NO POSSIBLE solution other than Arab population centers of Arab-occupied West Bank (excluding Yerushalayim) and Gaza being recognized, and imposed, by the international community as protectorates of Jordan and Egypt, similar in many ways to reservations, with voting rights in those countries however.

This must be recognized and imposed by the international community because it is the only possible path to an enduring peace and Arabs of the Arab-occupied West Bank and Hamastan will never accept that because they will never accept anything less than a formula that guarantees the inexorable elimination of the Jewish state from the Middle East (e.g., taking the Jewish heart, which is Yerushalayim, from our chest).

Jordan and Egypt cannot agree to it because they cannot shoulder the blame for "losing al Quds" (Jerusalem). Neither the leadership of Jordan or Egypt is willing to fall on their own sword to bring about peace. (And, certainly, we Jews are not going to leave our ancestral land or capital either.) If it was imposed by the international community, however, they could not be blamed (since they wouldn't accept it but would, conveniently, be imposed against their will) and peace would at least be possible. Despite secular apostates, there is no possibility under the sun that religious Jews will ever cede our heart (Jerusalem). Attempts to take Jerusalem from us means war, forever if need be. But taking Jerusalem off the table, as George W. and previous presidents were required by Congress and promised to do but did not, would open the door to a peace formula. Arabs have to decide whether they and their grandchildren want to live forever in the rubble and death we see in Gaza, in which their elderly, women and children are no more than sacrifices to throw in the fire, or whether they want a better future for better-educated grandchildren to live and prosper in peace.

Neither is there any alternative to the international community recognizing and imposing Jordanian voting rights for Arabs in Arab-occupied West Bank protectorates. To remain in power, the king must learn to satisfy these rightful constituents; not yet again at the expense of Jews and by arrogating ancestral Jewish land to Arab squatters to prop up a gentile king.

If voting rights and self-governance in their own commonwealths were granted, prosperity and consequent peace would be within grasp. If not, there WILL be an endless repetition of wars until this option is taken.

I first presented this solution to MK Uzi Landau on 1988.03.09.

Paqid Yirmeyahu
Paqid 16, The Netzarim, Ra'anana, Israel
Israeli Orthodox Jew (Teimani Baladi Dardai)
Advancing Logic as Halakhic Authority
Welcoming Jews & non-Jews
www.netzarim.co.il

An accord will be possible only after jewish thinking evolutionates from ancient times to XXI century.
"Chosen people" is just a religious concept and not a chapter of the International Right.
Israel has the same rights and obligations like any other country.
Stop asking fot help to the world at the same time you ignores their demands.

Other aspects of Indian reservations you've noted aren't suitable to our situation. In an environment of peace, Arabs of these protectorates would not only be able to travel and conduct business freely (though not "move") in Israel, but all Israelis (including Jews) and Arabs of all countries signing-on to this treaty would be able to travel and conduct business freely throughout the Middle East.

We don't have anything against Arabs; only against them blowing us up or trying to eliminate our Jewish state demographically or by other means. We hope there will come a day in which peace enables all of us to travel and conduct business freely throughout the region. It would bring great prosperity to all Middle Easterners... something that neither West-Bankers or Gazans are ever going to realize otherwise.

As for law enforcement:

Egyptian law enforcement in Gaza is do-able.

Jordanian law enforcement is problematic due to the "islands" nature of their proposed protectorates. It is perfectly surmountable to forge a working arrangement by which Jordanian police would access and support, via negotiated and stipulated police equipment and forces, their protectorates.

As for attacks from their soil, it's no different than any other. The only solution to stateless terrorist entities is to hold the state in which they operate accountable. No differently than Lebanon or Syria, Jordan and Egypt would remain accountable--as they already are now--for actions initiated from their soil.

Paqid Yirmeyahu
Paqid 16, The Netzarim, Ra'anana, Israel
Israeli Orthodox Jew (Teimani Baladi Dardai)
Advancing Logic as Halakhic Authority
Welcoming Jews & non-Jews
www.netzarim.co.il

Your point #
1. I agree.
2. You know that ceding our heart, Yerushalayim, is a non-starter. We'll not cede our large cities in the Shomron either. Deal with it if you want to Gazans and Arabs in the Shomron to see peace and the prosperity that we enjoy in Israel rather than the death and ruins of Hamastan and that we saw in Southern Beirut.
3. When you set the example by doing the same with your #1, Mecca, AND your #2, Medina to make the Middle East a free region, then you can pose that argument about your #3, al Quds. Until then, you're being a sanctimonious hypocrite with OUR capital.
4. I don't know what you mean by "proxy Palestine" but there is no such thing.
5. Your argument here is just silly.

Paqid Yirmeyahu
Paqid 16, The Netzarim, Ra'anana, Israel
Israeli Orthodox Jew (Teimani Baladi Dardai)
Advancing Logic as Halakhic Authority
Welcoming Jews & non-Jews
www.netzarim.co.il

It is typical of Christians that they see no need for Judaism, much less a Judaic state, to remain viable. That's inherent to your supersessionist displacement theology. It is insidious of you to deceptively suggest "a true reconciliation between both people and three religions," assimilation that would preclude a Judaic state.

There can be peaceful coexistence between peoples of other religions, but there CANNOT be a "reconciliation" of either supersessionist displacement--counterfeit--religion with the original, Torah Judaism.

People are simply going to have to learn how to disagree with each other about religion without resorting to killing each other. Only the counterfeits are kill-worthy afraid of being exposed by the original.

When the peoples have learned to disagree through non-violent discourse, education and learning, then the <i>peoples</i> can get along WITH a Judaic Israel. Eliminating the Judaic state is tantamount to killing Judaism and Jews--a long-standing goal of both supersessionist, displacement theologies.

Until this is realized, Israel will defend herself... and I guess Arabs in Hamastan and the Shomron will continue to sacrifice their elderly, women and children in order to live huddled with their families around campfires atop the recurrent rubble in the cold, rainy nights and in the glare of the summer sun--watching Israelis across the field living in relative happiness and prosperity.

It's a shame. If you'd only accept our Judaic state and capital you and your children could live happily in peace and prosperity too.

Paqid Yirmeyahu
Paqid 16, The Netzarim, Ra'anana, Israel
Israeli Orthodox Jew (Teimani Baladi Dardai)
Advancing Logic as Halakhic Authority
Welcoming Jews & non-Jews
www.netzarim.co.il

you know nothing about gazans .you know nothing about west bank . but you are not the only one mubarak the same abou mazen the same it is not a cake to devide it is people there in gaza and in west bank setelments allover but jerusalem is the holy city . the old man who gaurd the haram kudsi said yesterday nothing will be hidden in this holy land . triks or offensive decision will apear as soon as it was made