HOW LOW CAN WE GO??? give peace a chance

You gotta love the way leftists turn logic upside its head. Poster # 1 claims that antiexpulsion activists are extremists and fanatics. What does Israel Doe think about Peretz and his goons when they practically shut down the country because they want a few more shekels? Is that democratic expression more viable than those who are trying to protect Israel from its enemies?

In the last election, Mitzna campaigned to evacuate just one town in Gaza (Nezarim), and lost to Sharon who won the election with the mantra that “Giving up Netzarim endangers Tel Aviv”. Even Mitzna was shocked that Sharon would propose this plan. If it takes civil disobedience to stop the injustice, don’t blame the demonstrators!

next they will want tel aviv and jerusalem, so then let us give peace a chance??? and give it to them. We gave oslo we gave our lives. give them a chance?! why dont you try to go to their villages and speak to them, see how welcoming they will be to you. BTW if you come out alive let me know how it was..

http://telavivrally.com/index.php forward/send this info to others

Since when was a Yesha Council Leader qualified to determine what's lawful or not? These anarchists must be stopped for the good of Israel and the peaceful masses within it. The financial and emotional suffering perpetuated by the settlers upon the rest of their brothers must stop. They need to recognize just how long the rest of us have been suffering because of their violent, illegal behavior. It's difficult to negotiate with people this selfish. I can't wait till these militants are back in Israel where they belong so our people can once again focus on creating a better Israel. Why is a handful of extremists allowed to speak for both the Jewish and Arab population here? The rest of us are sick of your pessimism and greed!!!

that will use any mean at their disposal including and especially illegal ones to reach their goals. They are greedy and selfish people who use democracy as a tool. But make no mistake, there will always be an other Igal Amir somewhere that will not hesitate to repeat what has been commited ten years ago. And then, like with Rabbin suddenly everybody will say they are sorry and that it should not represent their cause, all of a sudden, despite the fact that most of them could not be more happier with Rabbin's death.

Hmmm. My husband is there, in Kfar Maimon, and has updated us on a fairly regular basis. He said that last night they (soldiers and demonstrators alike) were all very friendly to each other, said goodnight to each other, etc. This morning, those who pray prayed together with the sunrise. The picture you're painting is very convenient for the official story the government is trying to paint -- to set these people as dismissable, punishable fanatics, but this is grossly, by in large, very untrue. Convenient, perhaps, but a falsehood.

I was there but had to come back early. I only wish the press would tell it straight. not everyone there is a settler, not a bunch of rabble rousing youths. anyone there would laugh at the idea that this is the dangerous mob the police is scared of. it is the most normal group of people who are trying to heard, and if the media sees this protest go on non-violently hopefully they will be willing to see it as it is.

The religous right is corrupting our society. The outcome of 30 years of settlement expansion is extremism, racism and religous zeoltary. This outcome greatly overshadows the removal of Gush Katif.

How come that none of you is commenting on the two ultra-orthodox soldiers arrested for J'lem device? Do you have nothing to say regarding this? I would be more than happy to hear your views, naturally after reading the other posts here: http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3114513,00.html

and that the press is giving us negative coverage. Othewise the news that is coming our is terrifying... let it all end in peace - a democratic protest that ends in everyone making their point and going home safely.

I was there yesterday. What I saw was thousands of people come together in a prayer rally. That's what people did for 6 hours - they prayed, they sang, they danced. There were babies there, old people. The fanatics were the police and army. Halutz recently said "We are not the enemy" - no, the army and police are not the enemy - and neither were the people who were protesting there yesterday. The enemy is the one hurling rockets and mortars at us, blowing up our buses and streets. How low can we go? What does that mean? What a ridiculous phrase. Give peace a chance? How quaint...and what a nice idea. And...since we have been ready to give peace a chance for 57 years, this is simply a play for sympathy by using quaint cliches. It takes two to make peace - and the Palestinians aren't ready, willing, or able. No one...NO ONE...in Israel believes that the so-called "disengagement plan" will bring peace....or security. So...HELLO??? why are we doing it? And, most important...how can police justify their actions yesterday. The right to demonstrate peacefully is a fundamental right in a democracy. Yesterday and today, as they surround these people and prevent others from joining them, is a sad day in Israel, a day Israel's democracy was shamed in order to cover up Sharon's weak and corrupt government.

At the end of an article about 40,000 people protesting democractically, you bring up the issue of 2 Jews who did something reprehensible. No word about the amazing rally. No word about how it was completely peaceful, despite numerous provocations from the police/army. No word about making an 80 year old man start walking from Jerusalem or making people walk 15 km. from Kiryat Shemona. Shame on you for buying the government line and shame on you for not crying for Israel's democracy. You want to hear it - fine - I am a right-wing Israeli. I condemn all acts of violence, those by settlers, those by residents and those by police. I condemn placing a "bomb" in an area to cause terror - terrorism can never be condoned, no matter the cause, and finally, I condemn you for not applauding the democratic and peaceful rally that occurred yesterday. May Israel's democracy survive yesterday...and blind hatred such as we see in this post.

why is Tel Aviv more of Israel than gush katif... why do you secular left wing narrow minded Israelis risk your life (with the possibility of suicide bombings any where in Israel) to live in the middle east when "Israeli cloture" is dead any ways... I say evacuate all of Israel, for Zion is bankrupt of its soul…

Look carefuly and you will see that I was commenting on this "amazing" rally as you call it. My other post is #12.

"anti-pullout march diverts attention of security forces from fighting terror" Actually it is the disengagement policy which divetrts attention of the security forces from fighting terror. “The settlers can’t pretend to be the righteous ones when they didn’t even apply for a demonstration permit.” As a matter of fact, they did apply for a permit, but the police rejected it.

Oh, I'm sorry - was that hate-filled rant a praise of 40,000 people holding a peaceful demonstation? I guess I missed it. What venom you show. What hatred. How tremendously sad for you. I have lived my entire life in a democracy and I can tell you - threatening to take away the driver's licenses of drivers who are hired to take people to a demonstration on Monday which is scheduled to continue for 3 days and which includes them possibly doing something against the law on the third day (when the driver will be no where around) and it isn't known whether they will actually try to enter Gush Katif or not...is NOT democracy. People have a legal right to demonstrate. We, the right wing, do not use democracy when it suits us - but we do note how the Sharon government, with the help of the left wing, has defiled the concept by manipulating the cabinet, by failing to uphold the policies on which they were elected. Funny how Sharon becomes the darling of the left when he suddenly follows the left-wing policies. Well - despite your hate-filled post, I stand by my original post that it is a shame on you and on all of Israel. I guess I should probably hide behind the name "Israeli" in Maaleh Adumim, but I'll leave my name on because there is no shame in wanting your country to be democractic, and no shame in wanting to protest when you feel your country is not living up to its ideals. I'll leave you with the words of Thoreau: "Under a government which imprisons unjustly, the true place for a just man is also a prison." The right is not afraid to go to prison...and perhaps that is what scares the left so much - that we are a generation willing to fight for our country and the principles we believe in...we don't have to be paid to hand out ribbons on the street.

Matthias: as you said, the settlers applied for a permit but it was rejected by the police. So what can we conclude from this? It was rejected but it's okay anyway to go on with the unauthorized demonstration? MOST IMPORTANT: What's the point to apply for a permit (and once again pretend to play it democratically) if ultimately you will bypass the legal decision and demonstrate anyway? If the settlers applied for a permit for the demonstation and if it was rejected, were they supposed to demonstrate anyway? You see, these are the right questions to answer. MY POINT IS THAT DEMOCRACY IS JUST A PRETEXT, THE SETTLERS DON'T ABIDE TO LAWS AND THEY USE DEMOCRACY'S PRINCIPLES ONLY WHEN IT SUITS THEM.

ACTUALLY, the most definitely DID apply...and were given...and then it was rescinded...then it was given on the condition they limit it to the rally, which was refused, then the police denied it because the committee wouldn't give them an end time...which wasn't true. And while the police rejected it, Netivot and other organizations accepted it. Since the police didn't arrest everyone at the rally, one can safely assume that no laws were violated and I was personally told by a number of police how well organized and well-behaved the crowd was. Recognize hatred for what it is and the words have less meaning. "Israeli" in "Tel aviv" is doing what many left-wingers are trying to do - delegitimize a legal voice and claim Israel for themselves. They, suddenly" love Israel more, they are the true Israelis. Nonsense. The TRUE Israelis are the ones who care enough about the country and the democracy to try to stop a corrupt government from following a course of national suicide and destruction. Only fools thing disengagement (ha, it isn't even disengagement), will bring peace. Even the army says it will add nothing to security.

Excuse me? The right is corrupting "our" society - this from a man in Melbourne? The outcome of 30 years of settlement expansion...the one initiated and supported by numerous governments - are beautiful communities...the other outcome, apparently, is an amazing sense of anger and hatred (and perhaps jealousy) from the left.

Despite what you think, this is not hate but just plain facts. This is too easy to explain this by hate. The fact that I express different views from yours doesn't necessarily imply hate. If it was hate, you could think OK let's just ignore him, but it would be too easy to explain it this way, right? Or maybe you're searching the easy way? Everytime someone disagree with you and the settlers, what are you going to tell him? that he's: 1 - a far left loony 2 - full of hate 3 - antisemitic 4 - not jewish 5 - all of the above Choose one!!! And naturally picking one of these will legitimate you to refuse a dialog with him. Logic! Let's face it: it's more than 30 years that the settlers are where they are and that israeli society is paying a heavy price because of them. And you can understand 'paying' not only on the financial meaning of the word. Yes all israeli citizen are unfortunately paying taxes for the settlers but it doesn't stop there. The israeli society is also paying with the life of the soldiers that are supposed to defend them. And once again, being populistic and using concept such as democracy, justice and so on will not help your "cause" especially when you interpret the concept of democracy at your advantage. Sincerely what do you think? There are +/- 40,000 people and you expect this to represent all Israel? What is 40,000 people if you compare that to the whole country? It's not because the settlers are making a lot of noise that you are right, the loudest guys aren't always the right ones. The way you're talking about this demonstration, we can think about some happy hippies going to Woodstock for a peaceful happening... Come on, wake up!

No matter how many soldiers could be dealing with terror now, Israel will need 10x as many soldiers to fight such a terror war that will, Heaven Forbid, be brought upon Israel if they decide to leave Gaza. Those against the 'disengagement' are not merely nutcases who want more land, just as the original Labor governments who established the settelments had very rational reasons for making the settlements. Its very simple: without the 'settlements' Israel is much more vulnurable to attack. In addition, giving in to the terror today would cause a much worse situation than before. There is no such thing as going back- if they leave Gaza, *all* terrists throughout Israel and the world will gain support and energy. This is a fact that all security experts have said- its not just coming from one or two Jews who believe in a Greater Israel... In short: if Israel likes herself and believes in herself, then she will not under any circumstance go through with this pathetic idea. And I do believe that the Jews there do not wish suicide, and should therefore act accordingly. They should be proud Jews who are determined to live, and live as Jews without fear. Nowhere in the Jewish Bible does it command a Jew to give in to world pressure or willingly commit national suicide.

This just in.... ACRI (Association for Civil Rights in Israel) attorney Irene Margalit told Galei Tzahal (Army) Radio today the Israel Police acted out of its authority when it gave the order to prevent buses from transporting disengagement opponents to Kfar Maimon on Monday. Margalit explained that while police have a right and an obligation to prevent law-breaking, the law-enforcement agency does have limits and preventing the transport of people to a congregation site was outside the legal operational parameters of the deparment

Hi Paula, I"m reading your post "Permits for rally" but I"m a bit surprised to say the least. I"m wondering how you can define a 'true israeli'? Isn't it reminiscent of the definition of a pure race by you know who, +/- 65 years ago? This sounds like a dangerous concept: declaring who is a true israeli (or not) will legitimate his actings on the basis of being a "true israeli". I hope you realize that nobody can go this way, this is much too dangerous for the future of this country. Have a nice day anyway, T.C.