"Sincerely what do you think? There are +/- 40,000 people and you expect this to represent all Israel? What is 40,000 people if you compare that to the whole country?" Not long ago the leftwing and the 'peace'-camp organized a demonstration in support of PM Sharon and the disengagement plan. They wanted it to be a clear signal of the 'majority' for the government. They ordered buses from various places in the country. But, embarassingly, just some 8'000 people showed up. Nice 'majority'! Of course, they had the appropriate excuse: People think it is already a done deal, laziness, etc. Honestly, do you really believe that a majority is backing the plans of the government? How do you know? Without a referendum? And do not mention the polls? Polls are only as reliable and objective as the people who made it.

The thing is that everyone gets tied down in generalities. There are many people who don't believe in the disengagement, OK. So what? We do and we all work together in the same places of work, and park next to one another. Blue ribbonds and orange ribbons flapping in the breeze. The problem is the Fanatics, on the left or right, who palce fake bombs in bus stations, who break into houses and who refuise to follow the Laws of the Land. We're not talking peaceful protests here, those I will defend to the end. The problems begin when the rightwingers ( that's NO insult) unconditionally support their radical wing in their actions. Some of you guys must agree that there is a limit and that if Israel is to grow there has to be a red line. It's exactly the complaint that we all have against the Muslims in the world. With the exeption of that recent group of British Muslim scholars, when a Muslim Radical is captured killed or critisized ALL the Muslims unite to support him. You have a right to protest, but cut out the bad wood who get all of you such bad publicity and corrupt your kids.

worldnetdaily.com July 11 2005 ‘Al-Qaida nukes already in U.S.’ ‘Terrorists, bombs smuggled across Mexico border by MS-13 gangsters’ “According to captured al-Qaida leaders and documents, the plan is called the “American Hiroshima” and involves the multiple detonation of nuclear weapons already smuggled into the U.S over the Mexican border. Al-Qaida has obtained at least 40 nuclear weapons from the former Soviet Union - including suitcase nukes, nuclear mines, artillery shells and even some missile warheads. The plans for the devastating nuclear attack on the U.S. have been under development for more than a decade. It is designed as a final deadly blow of defeat to the U.S…thousands of al-Qaida sleeper agents have now been forward deployed into the U.S. to carry out their individual roles in the coming “American Hiroshima” plan. The future plan, suggests the attacks will take place simultaneously in major cities throughout the country - including New York, Boston, Washington, Las Vegas, Miami, Chicago and Los Angeles…” G8 leaders have promised nine billion dollars to the Palestinian Authority over the next three years. The following is an excerpt from sermon by Sheik Ibrahim Mudeiris, May 13 2005 on Palestinian Authority TV (transcribed by Memri TV monitor): We have ruled the world before, and by Allah, the day will come when we will rule the entire world again. The day will come when we will rule America. The day will come when we will rule Britain and the entire world - except for the Jews. The Jews will not enjoy a life of tranquility under our rule...The day will come when everything will be relieved of the Jews..The stones and trees will want the Muslims to finish off every Jew." Israelinsider.com July 8 2005 ‘From London to Gaza’ by David Bedein: “In recent weeks, American, British and Israeli intelligence sources have revealed that al-Qaida units now operate in the southern section of Gaza, and are positioned to take over the area that Israeli Defense Forces would vacate, if the proposed retreat plan is indeed carried out by the Israel government…” Gaza is to be transformed into Hamastan - the largest terror base in the Middle East with its own airport and seaport - and al-Qaida - a major threat to the entire world. worldnetdaily.com, July 18 2005 ‘Al-Qaida’s U.S. nuclear targets’ “The series of attacks is designed to kill 4 million, destroy the economy and fundamentally alter the course of history. New York and Washington top the preferred target list for al-Qaida leadership. The captured terrorists and documents also suggest smaller attacks may take place on American soil before the nuclear incidents. They may include some involving automatic weapons at schools and shopping malls. Another requirement dictated from the top at al-Qaida is that the attacks take place in daylight, so that the whole word will be able to see the images of a mushroom cloud over an American city…”

Hi T.C. True Israelis are easy to define. They are neither left nor right, religious or secular. It doesn't matter where they live (though I guess I'd prefer that they live in or south of Metulla and in or north of Eilat. True Israelis love the country, regardless of WHO is Prime Minister - whether Rabin, Sharon...or even Bibi or Peres. True Israelis welcome and love all Israelis, even those on the left or those on the right. True Israelis recognize that Israel is a Jewish state, but that we have Druse and Christian and Arab citizens who deserve equal rights and representation. True Israelis don't hate other Israelis based on their religious observance or where they live and true Israelis mourn for any Israeli injured or killed (anywhere in the world and for any reason...whether natural disasters like the Asian tsunami or a terrorist attack in Gush Katif). True Israelis want security and peace for this country. Whatever that means and whatever is done to achieve it. I say "Israeli" from "Tel aviv" is not a true Israeli because the overwhelming emotion he/she displays in his/her posts is hatred. Hatred of the right, hatred of the religious. On my car, I have blue and white and orange ribbons - because I believe that represents the true Israel...but I respect those who only have blue, those who only have blue and white, those who have yellow and those who have nothing. Yesterday's rally, even according to police and by ALL media accounts confirm it was done respectfully and peacefully. To try to demean the amazing event - and it was amazing, merely demeans the person who is speaking. I saw several teenagers walk over to police officers and offer them cookies, fruit, water and candy. And the police politely refused, "no thank you, hamuda" - Pure race hatred of 65 years ago said anyone with Jewish blood in below human and promoted hatred based solely on people's religion - this is what Israel-Tel aviv did. My view is very simple...you are a true Israeli if you love this country and its people..the whole country...and all its people.

evrybody read this : http://lazerbrody.typepad.com/lazer_beams/2005/06/the_muftis_pani.html

Gee, who did that? Who's been allowing the terrorists to rearm and reorganize ever since Arafat died? Methinks, the government. Who's been allowing them to shell communities in and next to Gaza for weeks while not allowing the army to do a damn thing about it, making Israel the laughingstock of the Middle East? Could that be the govt. It's very depressing to see how many people have "the settlers" as a hate group. Differences of opinion as to Israel's policies are fine. But all of you who think you hate these few hundred thousand people and call them names--look into yourselves. That's bigotry, isn't it--hatred of a whole category of people? For the record, I count settlers among my best friends and the ratio of lovely people among them is much higher than among just about any other group.

You started this entire thread by saying that "settlers are extremists and fanatic people that will use any means at their disposal including and especially illegal ones to reach their goals." That is not based on fact and that is hatred. I know thousands of settlers (hint: I am one, so are my children). The vast majority are not extremists or fanatics...just as most left-wingers aren't either. We have our extremists and so do you...God do you have some extremists...like the ones who are worried about the Palestinians not having an adequate enough supply of electricity (hello, they are bombing us with 100 rockets in 3 days and all you can worry about is how much electricity they have???). You said "they are greedy and selfish people who use democracy as a tool" - that too is false and designed to misguide. The vast majority of settlers that I know are good people, wonderful caring people who donate their time, help their neighbors and more. Try driving for 5 minutes in Tel Aviv and you'll see the selfishness there. Try asking someone to stop smoking in Tel Aviv and God help you. I'm not saying all left-wingers smoke and are intolerant because I don't believe in generalizations and I'll bet you'll find SOME selfish people anywhere you go. You defeat your own arguments by your extremism - which is displayed in how you refer to "settlers" without qualifying it or quantifying it. All settlers are not bad people. All settlers are not extremists. All settlers are not fanatics. All settlers aren't anything because all people aren't all things ever. Do you ever drive your car above the speed limit? Do you ever cross a street against a light? Do you ever break any law? The point of civil disobedience is that there is a law or a policy that you feel is immoral and so you fight it in a moral way. Those who fight the expulsion plan morally - without violence - have a right to their actions and they are not "playing" at democracy, as you imply. They are upholding it to the finest degree possible. We as a people have experience with those who follow immoral laws blindly. Sharon's policy may be legal (because he manipulated the law) and it might be democratic...but it is unethical, immoral, and strategically STUPID. HE didn't even agree with it 3 years ago when he ran for office, so you gotta wonder what changed his mind. I saw a great sign last night at the rally..."What is the difference between Abraham and Ariel Sharon?...Abraham was ready to sacrifice his son for the benefit of the nation of Israel...Sharon is ready to sacrifice the nation of Israel for his son."

israelinsider.com July 8 2005, 'From London to Gaza', by David Bedein "In recent weeks, American, British and Israeli intelligence sources have revealed that al-Qaida units now operate in the southern section of Gaza, and are positioned to take over the area that Israel Defense Forces would vacate..." Since 1974, it has been Islamist strategy that when Israel was sufficiently weakened through a combination of diplomacy and violence, the Arab nations would join in the final solution against Israel. PA leader, Abbas was Arafat's partner for over 40 years. Shortly after Oslo, Arafat explained on Jordanian TV the PLO strategy adopted in 1974: "Since we cannot defeat Israel in war, we do this in stages. We take any and every territory we can of Palestine, and establish sovereignty there, and we use it as a springboard to take more. When the time comes, WE CAN GET THE ARAB NATIONS TO JOIN US FOR THE FINAL BLOW AGAINST ISRAEL." Colluding with Egypt, the Palestinian Authority have smuggled in anti-tank missiles and anti-aircraft shoulder fired missiles that can take down commercial jets. Israeli leaders invitation for Egyptian military forces to deploy on Israel's border with Egypt fits in perfectly with the Islamist plan for the destruction of Israel. Egypt is equipped with the latest American weapons and, due to massive U.S. military aid has the largest and most powerful army in the Arab world . Nearly a year ago, U.S. Congressman Tom Lantos in the House International Relations Committee, warned Egypt was building up its military in preparation for a future war with Israel. M.K. Steinitz stated: Egyptian military "has been training for war against Israel for the past 10 years." After the 1967 War, the American Joint Chiefs of Staff report stated ISRAEL CAN ONLY BE DEFENSIBLE IF IT RETAINS JUDEA, SAMARIA, GAZA AND THE GOLAN. israelnationalnews - Jan 10 2005 - Israel Radio's morning newsmagazine reported PA leader, Abbas, appeared the night before and declared before cheering crowds, the "little Jihad had ended, and now the BIG JIHAD IS BEGINNING." The crowd responded, "A Million Shahids Marching to Jerusalem!" Israeli military analysts state that after Israel's exit from Gaza terror will greatly increase. Gaza will become Hamastan - the largest terror base in the Middle East with its own airport and seaport - and Al-Qaida - a major terror threat to the entire world - worldnet daily.com, July 11 2005 ‘Al-Qaida nukes already in U.S.’ The Road Map Islamic terror state will reduce TINY, over-crowded Israel to a 9 mile wide border at its middle. A TOTALLY INDEFENSIBLE ISRAEL. Through a series of horrifying concessions and suicidal agreements, under intense pressure from the U.S. and EU, Israel's leaders have recklessly abandoned the defense of Israel.

By the way, who are "the settlers"? Are they Israelis who live in Maale Adumim? Gush Etzion? Ariel? The Jordan Valley? The Golan? Ramot? French Hill? Is the idea supposed to be that these are Judenrein places, and any Jew who lives in them, you hate? Or just Jews who live there and are more religious than you and whose political views you disagree with? What about Israelis living within the Green Line who are just as religious and just as right-wing as "the settlers"? Do you hate them too? And do you think that your hatred of these Jews will earn you the love of the Arabs? Do you think it will make terrorists stop attacking Israelis in Netanya and Tel Aviv?

Sorry Moti, But the influence of the religous right permeates throughout the entire Jewish world. p.s I have also eaten from a 'mesting' and "tsochav" kitbag cmo ata. p.s Hows life in Kfar Saba?

Sharon has a damn nerve to blame the protestors for wasting the time of the security forces and endangering the country. Where the heck has he been for months when the terror has escalated to hundreds of rockets and some bombings? He can bellow all he wants, but this much is clear - the PM has TOTALLY abrogated his duties in protecting the people. To call the victims criminals won't whitewash his crimes!

This is a fabrication, Muslims do not "fear" your messiah, for the only messiah to come now is Jesus. That link you posted is a lie. We have no such fear of water gushing out or whatever it is you believe that we fear. If we feared that, don't you think we would convert to Judaism? Use your head!

Tell me when you were last at a Gan Yeladim did you ever discuss politics, bolshevism, communism and dictatorships with the children? I think not. The point is that its as futile as debating some of the above commentators. Dont bother if they havent seen the reality on the ground after so much terror and bloodshed and media brainwashing scapegoating a sector of the community that they just love to villify, they never will. Its preferable for them to bury their collective heads in the sand lest they have to admit they were in fact always wrong. Not to mention any hidden agendas hiding behind pseudo names and places. Paula hold you head up high, you have nothing to prove to anyone for truth is with you and that speaks enough for itself. Truth holds unto itself no matter how many seek to distorte it. State the facts alone and dont bother trying to educate those that have no capacity to learn, from you or from history. Paula stand tall.

It is amazing to me, as a Jew, how the army and police continue to indulge the settlers - who are fomenting rebellion against the state, rather than engaging in "legitimate protest." If, say, Israeli Arabs wanted to organize a mass march to protest the fence and attempted to bring tens of thousands of people together for a protest without a permit, the police most certainly would have broken it up immediately, arrested the ringleaders and, if necessary, used deadly force when the protesters refused orders to not march. Chaval she-ha-mishtara lo mishtameshet b'otam emtza'im v'otan shitot neged ha-mitnachalim ha-mitpar'im... The State of Israel has to put an end to this Jewish intifada immediately if there's any hope of Israel remaining a Jewish and democratic state.

I'm getting rather sick and tired of hearing pro pullout supporters being called left wingers. as far as i know Ariel Sharon (who ordered this pullout) is leader of the Likud party, who to my knowledge have always been right wing no? and while were on the subject , If the Gusg Katif is part of "eretz Israel" how home they dont have shnat smita??

If you want the real story and a true opinion, you're going to have to listen to Israelisms Podcast at www.israelisms.com

The momentum is with the settlers, who are an irresistlble force. It will surely knock the old man off the gameboard. He's too blind to see it, though. Things are about to change, big time, in terms of Israel's relationship with the so-called territories.

There's a slight difference between demonstrating against something, and bringing AK47's and rocks with you. It would be ridiculous to try and compare the two. And the Israeli Arabs- or any Arabs- who protest peacefully, are fully allowed to. Just FYI, I attended an Arab protest in Chevron once, and there were tens of 'Bakbukei Tavara' thrown at the soldiers, and many had to go for medical treatment. Yet the commanders issued orders forbidding them from opening fire- of rubber bullets! They couldnt even fire rubber bullets at thousands of people who were hurling firebombs at them! I've heard this sentiment before- 'what would Israel do if they were all Palestinians?' But the comparison can not be made, because the fundamental nature of the opposition is simply hugely different.

Any form and shape of religious propaganda is idiotic. First because to those who do not believe, it is laughable, second, because it brings us back in a religious war, the worst of all kind, third because it clearly shows the danger of ultra-nationalisme in the country , based on so called " biblical rights"...and in particular some suppose " Borders" dating to biblical time.....Religion and politics are two differents subkects that the ultra-nationalists better not mix-up short of making themselves look at total intellectual wrecks.

Your Settler friends are sitting in the dirt in Kfar Maimon. The only momentum is the Gaza pullout. Get real.

If you accept advise from Palestinians the read this: You should allow the settlers to demonstarte as a form of expression and all Israelis should listen and engage them openly as they are asking to be heard. Now if the settlers will use these demonstrations to express themslves physically and disrupt life they lose a conculsion already made by blocking traffic a few weeks back. Do not allow this redployment to split you and pin one against the other, it is not the end of the world for Israel.

police should send them a big giant orange horse as a gift

Lenny, The fundamental nature of the opposition is NOT different. Look at the clashes going on -- the settlers are actively beating police and soldiers at places like the Kissufim Junction. The area is closed and yet they think they have a right to break the law and do whatever they want. And protests by Israeli Arabs are dealt with much more harshly. The intent to break through a closed military zone and prevent a democratically reached decision from being implemented is fundamentally violent and illegal. Israeli Arabs who tried to do any such thing would be dealt with harshly -- and so should the settlers. For decades they've been coddled, subsidized, allowed to steal land and harass Arabs to their heart's content. Finally, sane Israelis are waking up and saying "Enough!"

It takes real talent, but the army seems to have successfully besieged an Israeli city filled with Israelis...what will they think of next. And, while they were doing it - another 6 mortars fell on Jewish targets. Anyone know a way of reminding the army and government who the REAL enemies are????

"A spokesman for the Palestinian Interior Ministry said Hamas was trying to force Israel to re-take the Gaza Strip in order to thwart the disengagement program and justify continued warfare against Israel." Not the best source, but I wonder if the Gaza Radicals get the message ? We sympathise with you loss, but now's the time to get out. For Israels' sake

I am a former Chairman of general Sharon's Campaign and I wish to apologize for that. Born in Argentina and a former US Department of Defense Senior Engineer, Military Avionics, I have seen my share of gruesome regimes, but not even during the Junta there I saw the official bestiality I see here. Simply beyond belief. Please get those generals back to barracks before all is destroyed.