Jewish Scene
Church effort anti-Semitic: Wiesenthal
By Associated Press
Published: 07.08.05, 13:07
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21 Talkbacks for this article
1. Counter Punch Them
Joe Levi ,   Los Angeles, USA   (08.07.05)
Okay, okay, so the church has made it's anti-Semitic, anti-Israel move. Now it's our turn. How can we effectively fight these guys? Well for one thing, flood your stock broker (get one if you don't have already), and buy, buy, buy the stock of those companies affected. Make sure you buy at a higher price than current. We can defeat this illegal boycott. Call your legislators about denying them exempt status (religious) at the IRS. That will stop them. This is blatantly a political move and they should not benefit from tax breaks.
2. presbyterians
desiree ,   us   (08.07.05)
There have always been christians and then, Christians. Just as there are jews and Jews. The true Christians will remain with Israel, a remnant in faith and to be trusted. These others . . . watch out for them. We do, too.
3. Church priviledge to invest money at its digcession
n. breidenthal ,   yelm, USA   (08.08.05)
There have been businesses I would not invest in because they did not honor my own values. This is a fundamental freedom. Perhaps iin exercising this the world can be made a more balanced place. If money is king let's use it to bring about humane practiceses around the world..
4. Very Good
Yoan Roy ,   Montreal, qc, ca   (08.08.05)
To a money thirsty multi-national company, profit comes before anything else. When an entire country like the US is run by such companies, following the legal guidlines in terms of human rights is always a fuzzy affair. Corporations are funny. They strangle every possible loophole till it bleeds, filling their putrid bellies. When accused of wrongdoing, they get ultra defensive and fire up the goodwill bs generator. What a wonderfull world.
5. Christian
sarah ,   Texas, USA   (08.08.05)
Of course it's Christian to divest. Jesus did not allow for punitive violence, and Israel engages in a variety of actions in supposed defense that harm uninvolved Palestinians. If the divestment campaign succeeded having the wall pulled down, it would help Palestinians. This is a good example of using the term anti-Semitism as a weapon. Divestment is not hateful, and churches adhering to Christian ethics in their investments is not anti-Jewish. I'm very discouraged in the sentiments in this article and the previous two comments.
6. A move in the right direction
jk ,   cleveland usa   (08.08.05)
Yes, it is now time to stand up for what is proper.Israel must stop this killing & take down the wall. I support this move by the Presbyterian Church 100%...
7. free society
Chomsky ,   Israel   (08.08.05)
In a free society, you are free to spend your money where and when you choose, and equally important, not be required to spend or invest your money where you do not care to. Israel's supporters oppose that freedom. They want the government to tell private investors where and when they should put their money.
8. Trust some of the Christians, not all.
Bunnie Meyer ,   Santa Monica   (08.08.05)
Don't forget that the "Christian" pope wanted hitler to exterminate the Jews. There are good, decent, ethical Christians who want peace in Israel and there are lousy, miserable, demented "Christians" who support the terrorist pigs. It isn't hard to see what side the Presbyterians are on. They've never had their churches bombed by terrorist pigs but if islam takes over, they won't be bombed, just taken over and turned into mosques.
9. Wiesenthal Claims Anti-Semitism
YesWeHaveNoBananas ,   USA   (08.08.05)
Everytime anyone objects to an Israeli policy it is ant-semitic and the objector is guilty of persecuting jews throughout the world. Every time I hear this, primitive, tribal, insulting response, I object more and to Israel policy.
10. Good on the Presbyterians
TB ,   Canberra, Australia   (08.08.05)
YesWeHaveNoBananas, I couldn't have said it better myself. I just hope that the Presbyterian Church sticks to its convictions. It pains me everytime that there is a capitulation after cries of "anti-semitism". Joe Levi - please explain to me what is illegal about the church's actions. It is fools such as yourself that allow Israel to get away with crime after crime after crime against the Palestinian people.
11. # 9 and 10
USA   (08.08.05)
Absolutely agree. Anytime anyone critisizes , and righfully so, Israel's policies that they find horrendous and racist, jews around the world call them " ANTI SEMITE, ANTI SEMITE." It is an UGLY and manipulative accusation and says more about the jews then the church, for example. I am VERY proud of the Christians that are standing up to the injustices of Israel. Stay strong Presbyterians. You have more people behind you then you know. Equality and justice for all.
12. i'll tell you why 'they' think it's anti-semitism
s of london   (08.08.05)
I'm not Jewish myself but have lived in Israel and do understand why there are a lot of Israelis and presumably Jews elsewhere that 'cry' 'anti-semitism' a lot. All the do-gooders, whether they're religion or politics based that ceaselessly pick on Israel never once think of criticizing other people who kill larger numbers of innocent people year in and year out. I'm sure whilst the Tibet cause was briefly hip a decade ago a couple of priests spoke out but now they're too busy redirecting their Caterpillar money towards Shanghai to prop up that ethical regime. And even if you believe all the worst anti-Israel propanda/news and use all the most inflated figures Israel's 'crimes' pale against other countries that the Church is happy to do business and/or missionary-work in. Believe me if Jews ran Sudan instead of Muslims the church would have leapt in to save the 2,000,000 who have been killed recently and condemn that ever reliable scapegoat - the Jew.
13. It's time for Jews to boycott racist Christian denominations
The List is here: Presbyterian Church (USA), United Methodist Church, World Council of Churches, Anglican Consultative Council, The Disciples of Christ. Jews too often in the past have let 'little things' flow by, only to find that these 'little things' eventually blow up into a huge disaster! Racist Christian denominations do not deserve the privilege of Jewish relations, and the Jewish community should virtuously wage a widescale boycott of any businesses that profit from these racist, discriminatory Church denominations. The fact that a Palestinian woman was able to give a long speech about how she had to drive an extra 10 minutes to visit her brother because of 'the Wall' to the Presbyterian Delegates, but an Israeli woman who was nearly blown to death, and who had flown in from NYC to speak at the delegation was denied to voice her side should not be forgotten. It seems as though these Churches are more concerned with a Palestinian's travel time, than with the right for an Israeli to live. I thought that life was the most valuable entity for Christians? Well, certainly not Jewish life! I know that most members of these churches do not agree with the decisions of their leaders. I hope they will loudly oppose, and use all their might to overturn these discriminatory and bigoted measures. Until then, a list should be compiled of businesses that profit from these Churches, and Jews, or any other people who oppose anti-Semitism and racism, should boycott them until justice is obtained!
14. 12
YesWeHaveNoBananas ,   USA   (08.09.05)
Jew or non-Jew, whomever you are - stop whining!. You tell us: "do-gooders...ceaselessly pick on Israel" "Church would have leapt in to save the 2,000,000......and condemn that reliable scapegoat -the Jew." You're whining seems like a riff on the old "Esau hates Jacob" (Gentiles hate Jews) routine which the chasid and other Jews hold to be a truth. So anything I say brands me just another Esau. That be the case, there's no real point in talking, is there?.
15. nothing has changed
jack hunter ,   melbourne australia   (08.09.05)
what a hoot the same people who have harboured pedopliles and engaged in despicable acts against kids have suddenly turned they can take this money and invest it countries that mirrors thier policies these places come to mind iran cuba china egyypt zimbabwa saudi arabia and all the countries of this ilk...heavens above dont mention anti semitism they are not anti semitic it just happens that they dont like reminds them too much of this guy that they worship i think his name was JESUS CHRIST
16. Awfully clever #12
Richard Harris ,   San Diego   (08.09.05)
The dictum that "Esau hates Jacob" is well known (cited by Rashi in his commentary). It also has a good measure of truth to it. Aren't the human rights violations of China as much if not greater than anything Israel has done. More if you consider even political activity in Tibet is not tolerated. So where are all these Christian groups in this case? BTW, even more clever to pick a post that matches your name (and probably IQ and age as well)
17. to the kerrazzzily named bananaman
s of london   (08.09.05)
next time I see Falun Gong people protesting outside the Chinese embassy, or Sudanese outside theirs I'll tell them to stop whining, it's such a Jewish trait...
18. Esau, not to be outdone, Responds
YesWeHaveNoBananas ,   USA   (08.09.05)
Dear Richard, The Esau/Jacob hate riff is cited, as you point out, by Rashi. It's cited, as well, in " "The soul of Esau knows this--that he exists solely to serve his younger brother. That no matter how ferociously he resists this truth, that ferociousness itself will ultimately be Jacob's." I'm assuming that most Jews in the world reject this primitive, primeval crap. Aren't modern, civilized Jews embarrassed about this? Come to think of it, you wouldn't know, since you support it with statements that it has a "good measure of truth to it" Is the world in a time machine where superstitious, violent lunatics have been released to the present day? My focus on Israel, as a US citizen, is my belief that the Likud Gov't of Ariel Shaon is a threat to world peace and US security. "Land for peace" has been a lie since post-1967. US dollars are going for the expansion of eretz Israel and that's a religious war that is none of our business. That, in a nutshell, is why I strongly oppose US support of Israel. That's why I'm less interested in China and Tibet. Your scathing putdown of my age and IQ has left me, quite frankly, devastated. But didn't you want to refer to me as #14? (who in turn was referring to 12 - S. of London). BTW, S of London, do you believe in that Esau/ HeeHaw/Jacob crap too?
19. church efforts at disinvestment
Tom Martin ,   Shelbyville...USA   (08.09.05)
Every single time Israeli supporters beats their chest, pull their hair and begining screaming 'anti-semitic'... its because of an action that the Israeli have no problem long as it's them leading the rest of the world against 'that other' nation's evil. What's good for the good for the gander.
20. a response to the septagramatron
s of london   (08.10.05)
I don't believe in all 'that crap', I also don't believe in the Catholic 'crap' I was raised with and the Islamic 'crap' that I took my Masters in. I would imagine you do believe the christian stuff though as you seem to be of the ilk that thinks the Jews are the only race/faith (yeah, yeah...) that don't deserve a state and should be condemned to wander the earth eternally for their act of 'deicide'. Also, if you're worried about world stability, am I to presume you post similar messages at Syrian, Russian, Iranian or American sites? And if you don't, would you if they were run by Jews?
21. The wit and wisdom of YesWeHaveNoBananEs(au)
YesWeHaveNoBananas ,   USA   (08.10.05)
"I would imagine you do believe the christian stuff though as you seem to be of the ilk that thinks the Jews are the only race/faith (yeah, yeah...) that don't deserve a state and should be condemned to wander the earth eternally for their act of 'deicide'." People who accuse Jews of deicide are superstious G D fools. Just like Chasids who put out master race crap such as I cited on I don't believe in Christ, so I consider any Christ killer accusations as utter BS that only serves to threaten world peace and stability and victimizes Jews. Esau hates Jacob is crap. Utter crap, founded on childish, primitive, paranoid and even violent notions of the Jews as the master race. As a non-Jew ,what do you think I will call it, especially the part that I am doomed to an eternal hatred, born the knowledge I will serve Jacob eternally. This is a family forum, so why don't we just leave it at crap, huh? You further assume that I think "Jews are the only race/faith (yeah, yeah..) that don't deserve a state..." .then you babble something about deicide. This, dear Southie, is where you drift off into incoherence. Remember, I don't believe in a deity, ergo no deicide. And what the hell are you talking about,...I'm condemning Jews to wander the earth? Speaking of earth, let's get back to it. Allow me to summarize my beliefs toward Israel: - Israel is a terrorist state. - Israel is a racist state. - Land for peace, disengagement, the Road Map and the rest of it are ongoing theologoically based lies. - The expansion of Eretz Israel is the only realilty for the Likud gov't. - US aid for Israel has made my country less safe. We should handle terrorism and anti-terrorism on our own, thanks. We should improve port security, nuclear plant security etc. with all the dough we'll save when we cut Israel off from US aid. . I say AIPAC influence out of the US. JINSA, AEI, PNAC influence out of the US. Traitors Perle, Feith, out of the US. Johathan Pollard,, wait, Pollard's not going anywhere.
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