Israel leads West in child poverty
By Miri Chason
Published: 08.08.05, 14:29
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28 Talkbacks for this article
1. Bibi's Legacy
Eyal ,   (08.08.05)
Todah rbah gver Bibi! vBhatslcha motek. For this, the people will vote you into power when Sharon resigns. God help the people!
2. Bibi has the right idea
Liz ,   Beer-Sheva   (08.08.05)
Bibi has the right idea--keep it going buddy. People are poor in Israel because they CHOOSE to be poor. Nobody makes a family have 10 children and choose not to work...its a personal decision. If this is what they want, then let them stay poor. If haredim and bedouins want to have 10+ children, not educate their wifes and live off the dole, they have noone to blame but themselves. Go Bibi GO!!!
Linda Rivera ,   New York   (08.08.05)
For many people survival is a major, daily concern. This is not a concern for the Palestinian Authority. G-8 leaders have promised the already wealthy PA, nine billion dollars over the next three years. Poverty and joblessness is a serious problem for Israeli Jews. Greatly exacerbating this dire situation, Israeli leaders ruthlesssly plan to make 10,000 Gaza and northern Samaria's Jews jobless and homeless. In a violent military assault against Jews, Jewish land and vital assets will be seized by IDF and police and given to the Palestinian Authority terrorist organization. Every single one of the PA's security services are involved in terror attacks against Israel. .
4. This is where the money from Gaza should go
Eli Vardi ,   Israel   (08.08.05)
Let's hope, that after all the noise and belly aching about the Gaza withdrawal has quiened down, and all the Gush Settlers have been rehoused, in hotels,caravillas or whatever, the millions of $'s that Israel will save can e used to help support it's poor. We're only 6 million and waste fortunes on securiring territories and settlements that are bottomless pits. If only we had spent those wasted millions on education, infastructure and job creation in Israel, we wouldn't be in such a bad position. I don't have much hope though, not as long as the religious right keep controlling the purse strings and diverting to corrupt and politically extreme yeshivot. The much respected, in the past), Mafdal have turned into a more fanatical cult than the Shasniks that we were complaining about a few years ago !
5. Linda, no base to those exaggerated figures what so ever !
Eli Vardi ,   Israel   (08.08.05)
Linda, I respect your love for Israel, and I'll defend your right say whatever you like, but you are spouting garbage recently. No Jew from the Gaza or the territoties will be homeless, the homeless are in Tel Aviv, and Afula, and Rechovot. These are the people who have no suport, not politically or financially. Read the news, they all have hotel rooms, or (too)small houses, or apartments. The Jobless are in Sderot and Ofakim, exactly the places the demonstrations were held, and where these, supposedly Zionists, Jews do not want to live. There will be NO violent assault against the Jew of Gaza. The Army and police are their to enforce the laws of the Land of Israel, the land of your Lord Jesus. Law abiding citizens will receive all assistance but law breakers will be dealt with according to the law. That is the law, as it was in biblical times. At least we don't stone our sinners any more. Stop reading those fundamenatlist hate websites, you are heading for a heart attack, and G-d has given you your body on loan. Protect it, cherish it to damage it is a sin. I realize I'm wasting my breath, or finger, but nobody reads your cut and pasted rants anymore, except for other zealots, and me occasionally :-)
6. Eli Vardi - Gaza's Jews are very productive!
Linda Rivera ,   New York   (08.08.05)
Good morning, Eli! I'm extremely impressed by Gaza's Jews. They contribute significantly to Israel's economy! High tech greenhouses, farms, factories, etc. And Gaza's Jews built everything on sand and dirt on land that NEVER belonged to Arabs! There have been more than 27,000 terrorist attacks on Israel's Jews in the last five years. The Islamofascists are elated, encouraged, and empowered they are to be given Jewish Gaza for free. In return, they promise more terror until all of "Palestine" is liberated.
7. To Eli (4)
Shai ,   Israel   (08.08.05)
I always snicker whenever the left bring up Yesha as a "waste" of money. As if there was a line item to fund the poor and it was erased and the money was sent to Yesha. This claim is rhetorical chaff, unsubstantiated by the facts. Yesha residents are every bit as Israeli as you are, Eli, and they deserve government services no less than you do. That they are in Yesha is the result of decisions of Israeli governments through the decades, and at the time those decisions were made there was a national consensus that that was the best of our possible options. The government's spending priorities are established every year after extensive negotiations based on the political strength of the parties whose votes are needed to pass the budget. No more, no less. MK's who want to fund the opera will vote for a budget that will fund Ariel if that's the only way they can do it. If you don't like it, like most Israelis don't, work to change the system, but don't blame people who work within the system to get what they need. For instance, work like the left did when they had power, worked the system. Plenty of the left's pet projects have left the average Israeli "rabble" with very little while enriching those whose policies have left our country economically bankrupt in an age of international competition. The problem is not Netanyahu's policies, which are meant to enrich the tax-burdened middle class and encourage people to work so as to spread the burden of paying taxes to a broader population, it's the socialist policies that taught people to depend on the government to solve their problems while enriching party cronies and kibbutzim to provide the goods these government dependents sought. It's a method of governance that was fine for leftists when it suited their purposes, but when Shas came to power and used the very same methods to advance its own priorities, all of a sudden leftists howled "unfair". I didn't like it either, but "unfair"? It wasn't unfair, it was Israeli politics, which I don't like, but it's open to all who want to soil themselves with it. That said, "the religious" right hasn't controlled the purse strings since Shas was defeated. This phenomena is ancient history by now. It's maddening how you can be so glib and call the anguish of those Israelis who are opposed to your point of view "noise and belly aching". After having spent BILLIONS on disengaging, lets see how smug you'll be when more BILLIONS are spent defending ourselves from the terrorist hive that will develop in Gaza and bomb the coastline from Ashkelon to Bat Yam. We won't have gained, nor saved, one damn agora for the poor for all your enthusiasm about disengagement, and wrath against those Israelis who live in Yesha.
8. The povety figures are a disgrace!
David ,   Karmiel   (08.08.05)
Bibi Netanyahu said he cannot support the Gaza pullout in good conscience. How the hell can he live with himself when a thrird of all children in Israel are living below the poverty line? Bibi Netanyhu, a modern day Hood, Robin the poor to give to the rich. His creative genius took middle class wage earners and turned them into charity cases. Yes, the state does have an obligation to create jobs for its citizens but it has an even greater responsibilty to make sure that our children have food to eat and get a decent education. Mr. Netanyahu, no food no children. No children no future for the State of Israel with or without Gush Katif. What is more important, 8 or 10 thousand Gush Katifnikim of the survival of our country, our home and most of all, our children? Where will your son go to when there is no Israel where he can be a free Jew and be safe? We can only hope that Minister Ehud Olmert will have a little more sense and rescue our country from the economic terror of the Netanyahu Regime. People have a right to their dignity. They also have a right to be treated properly when they are sick and the government has the responsiblity to give them that. Marie Antoinette told the people to eat cake when they had no bread. I think that Prime Minister Sharon has cut of the head of the monster that gave cake to the rich and starvation to the less fortunate.
9. as an American
I am curious how Israel "finally" surpassed the USA in child poverty. I dont want ANY child poor, whether starving in Africa, the middle east or the USA. But Israel has been receiving and keeps asking for MORE US tax payers money. Daily, I am told.The USA should take care of its own first, and obviously we DONT. The USA ,before giving away welfare to other countries should make sure AMERICANS are not living in poverty. Sorry, Israelis, if you cant make your coubntry work without welfare, maybe you should think about living some where else instead of on US tax payers money.
10. To Linda - Jobless maybe but with pots of money
David ,   Karmiel   (08.08.05)
Linda, I certainly agree with you about the barbarism of the Palestinians but the only ones who are really going to suffer are the Gazans due to loss of their jobs and I, quite frankly, don't care a damn! I don't belive in feeding the dog that bites. However, whether we like it or not, we are a part of this very "unfriendly to Israel world" and we have to live and survive in it. You, as an American, know how fickle politics is and how the Arab World uses its oil weapon. We cannot risk losing the support of the USA and the all import US Veto in the UN. Can you imagine what would happen if International Sanctions were placed on Israel? Please remember one further point. Israel was created by a UN General Assembly Resolution. The same could happen with a Palestinian State and probably will. Sometimes one has to cut your losses and take risks. No one knows what will happen in the future but there will still be terror and therefore we must have legitimate boundaries to be able to defend ourselves. As for moving house by the "settlers", I moved house from one country to another and that was hard. The Gush Katifnikim are merely changing their addresses and, just as I did, are coming home.
11. to shai ...
s of london   (08.08.05)
hush hush i-u-i! Interesting riposte to eli's equally interesting posts. The problem for you and your lot though is that reasoned arguments are far from commonplace, I mean has any Yeshanik ever intelligently tried to explain why they tattoo numbers on to their arm and compare their plight to that of the poor souls vanquished by Hitler and co? You, being rather eloquent and intelligent, are a minority within a minority and you're being silenced as much by your ideological peers as your opponents. You can always tell a movement is wrong, whether it's left or right leaning, by the amount of cranks in the ranks, and this time, though there are obviously a few nuts in the anti-camp, the settler movement is almost entirely crazy.
12. To American (9)
Shai ,   Israel   (08.08.05)
About 9/10 of American aid to Israel is military aid, and the vast majority of that is spent in America, to give workers in the military industry their jobs so that they can keep their families fed. I don't think any of the aid is spent keeping anybody above the poverty line, so don't worry. I don't know where you get your information, but whoever is giving it to you is misinformed.
13. To David (8)
Shai ,   Israel   (08.08.05)
David, we have the worst of worlds in Israel, we pay taxes like socialists and receive benefits like capitalists. Somebody's making money on the margin, and it's not Netanyahu and it's not the middle class that his policies are designed to help. It's the oligarchs, about 20 families that own a huge amount of the countries assets (about 70% I'm told). They get most of the commercial loans, they get the best terms in business, they're protected by a frightened legal system and they're woven into the weave of the major political parties. I think Netanyahu's policies, if followed over the next few years, are designed to change that. Phrases like "rescue our country from the economic terror of the Netanyahu regime" betray a histrionic bias and misunderstanding in favor of the political socialism that has made our country uncompetitive and susceptible to cronyism, and the predatorial nature of our social system has reached these depths precisely because the system worked to strengthen the strong, not the weak. Economists and business owners understand the bravery that Netanyahu has shown in taking on the economic interests like the banks, the Histadrut, the port authorities, the broadcasting authority, all who have consumed billions of our nation's wealth in service of their selfish goals and distorted our economy. I wish him well, and hope he'll be back soon to finish his plan. We may have a way to go to reach social justice, and I think we should be open to new ideas about how to improve social balances and education, but the Labor party and Histadrut had their chance and blew it. Now it's time to try something else, and that's a full-court press at strengthening the middle class, getting more people into the work force paying taxes, and growing the economy so that everybody who wants a job and can work will find the "dignity" they want through their own two hands, will be able to keep a fair portion of the benefits of their efforts for their families and to distribute to charities as THEY see fit (not as the government sees fit), not through government hand-outs.
14. Backward
Falasteen   (08.08.05)
What do you expect from a people and a state founded on terrorism, facism, hate, theft, and murder May Allah Bless all Poor Children
15. To S of London (11)
Shai ,   Israel   (08.08.05)
I am not a minority within a minority. You being in London, you don't realize that most people who live in Yesha are reasonable and intelligent, and that about half of all Israelis do not think disengagement is a "slam dunk" decision that will make Israel safer. Believe it or not, it's possible to come to this conclusion using cold, dispassionate logic, and still not be a war-monger. I think most Yesha residents would like the situation to be different between us and the Palestinians, but there is really no evidence that the Palestinians are as interesting in winning a state as they are in Israel losing one. The impression you have of us, based on such reports as the tatoos on the arms of some anti-disengagement activists, is a SEVERELY distorted picture. I don't think many Yesha residents consider that to be a legitimate means of advancing their point of view. But recognize that in journalism, love and war, all is fair. The newspapers don't feel the need to tell the whole truth when there is a certain part of it that's more interesting. In the end, it's like Simon and Garfunkle once sang in their song "the Boxer", "a man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest". It's true in poetry, it's true in politics, and it's true on ynet.
16. To Shai
You're absolutely right, and did you notice he didn't mention the fact that America gives billions of dollars to Egypt and they have poor people living in cemeteries (who they aren't dead yet). These people who only focus on American aid to Israel, to the exclusion of every other country, have an agenda. Unfortunately, they also have a lack of factual information.
17. #16
Palestine   (08.08.05)
You forgot that the money Egypt is receiving is the price for a deal brokered by Israel to buy a peace treaty with Egypt, so Egypt money is on the same bill for the aid to israel, it is becoming increasingly costly beside being inhumane to American tax payers to support occupation fcism and oppression such as Israel and the murderers settlers, Its time for America to start looking after her own interest. GOG BLESS
18. as an American
Look, I like the jewish people as a whole. They are a strong and talented group that have brought alot to society. This is not the issue though, the issue, is Israel and its policies that privielge a race (jewish) above others. Its called racism in most societies. One has to be careful when seperating oneself from the world. You either want to belong or you dont. The earth is too small to make special rules for one race. No one I know wants to hurt jews or anyone. we really want to love you and accept you. but you must look at yourself within the structure of the planet and want to get along with us all. all of us are equal under GOD.
19. To 18
Shai ,   Israel   (08.09.05)
We don't need any favors. Keep your aid, and take Egypt's while you're at it if as (17) said, that's part of "buying a peace deal from Egypt". It wouldn't make as much of a difference to us as some Americans seem to flatter themselves that it would. What is important to us is the diplomatic backup. But the funding, obviously we're doing without it for the disengagement and with a little more belt tightening we could do without the rest. Netanyahu has as much already said that he wants to end this aid. As far as your attitudes about our "racism", in case you haven't noticed, we're not a "race". We are a "nationality" and a religion. And whereas America is founded, amongst other core values, on the idea that there should be no establishment of religion, that's something that arose from America's specific history with England. It's not a value that should be imported as the "ideal" for all other countries in the world, and in fact if you look around the world you'll see that you're an exception. Most countries DO favor a specific religion or nationality. Contrary to your assertion, it is the US that is unaligned with the "structure of the planet". You are the exception to the rule, not us. Israel was borne from a specific need to replant a nation that was torn from its land amost 2000 years ago on its original soil. The need to do so became pressing after it became clear that Jews were susceptible to extinction if they couldn't defend themselves on their own turf. While that doesn't alarm some apparently, it alarmed us. If you'll read Israel's Declaration of Independence, you'll read that it was not the intention to discriminate in any way against those minorities who would live in the state, our political system does not easily make alliances with those who oppose the idea of a Jewish state (as all the Arab parties do, though not most of Israeli Arabs), and if your political party is not part of the government you won't have political power, and over time you'll not share in the full benefits of citizenship. Unfortunately the identification of many Arabs living here with enemies of our state has caused a rift to build between us. The full intent of the Declaration is impossible to actualize under these circumstances. While our political system can and should be improved, not just to achieve justice for minorities but even for Israeli citizens generally who are more disatisfied with their governmental system than any citizens of any western country, but this is neither proof of "racism" nor is it an indictment of our country's inferiority to yours in the eyes of G-d or man.
20. To 17
Shai ,   Israel   (08.09.05)
If only you knew what "GOG" bless meant. You'd know what you revealed.
21. shai
s of london   (08.09.05)
כשגרתי בישראל... was when I made up my mind about the settlers. I didn't need comrade Amira's articles to sway me. All I needed was a weed smoking and torah session with some hilltop youthers in J'lem. Jabotinsky admired il Duce and these are his spiritual heirs...
22. Compare spiritual heirs (21)
Shai ,   Israel   (08.09.05)
Jabotinsky and Il Duce, Husseini and Hitler. Then compare what they achieved with that admiration - Jabotinsky nothing, Husseini the creation of an anti-nation that defines itself more by what it's not than what it is. And answer the question then, what practical result is there that we have "hilltop youth" vs. the al aqsa brigades? In other words, so what that all you needed was "weed smoking torah session hilltop youthers in Jerusalem"? They are a very minor and non-influential part of our population. The facists within the Palestinian camp are, by comparison, much more powerful in setting their political agenda.
23. to 19
another American ,   United States   (08.09.05)
"As far as your attitudes about our "racism", in case you haven't noticed, we're not a "race". We are a "nationality" and a religion." If Jews are a nation, like you say, are Jews who are currently living in America really Americans, or are they just Jews living in America. I was wondering about this because several Jewish people have been arrested lately on charges they were spying for Israel. If Jews are a nation, like you say, and that nation is conducting illegal espionage activities against my country, I would like those members of that nation to go home to their own country.
24. To 23
Shai ,   Israel   (08.09.05)
Your first point - Jews can be Americans, like Japanese can be Americans. Just as the Japanese were suspects even though they were loyal citizens during the second world war, Jews will be suspect when people like you invent suspicions about them. Odd, given that they've contributed so much to the US - apparently nothing is ever enough for people like you. The Jews you refer to were indicted, not convicted. You should learn what your own law says, "innocent until proven guilty". I suspect that if on the basis of law they're found "not guilty", you'll accuse the system of being infiltrated by Jew-spooks. If they are found guilty, then this is a statement about them, not about all Jews living in America, who have been proven time and again from the time of Chaim Solomon not only to be loyal Americans, but contributors to American society in every sphere far beyond their proportions in charities, science, diplomacy and the arts. And, on the facts, the information that was allegedly passed on was information from an American government source, offered to AIPAC employees in a "sting" operation, that purported to claim that lives were in danger. It wasn't a list of American spies, it wasn't a map of the inner-sanctum of the Pentagon, it wasn't a report of King Fahd's bedroom conversations, it was rather related to a direct danger to life. Do you think you would have sat on your hands, "another American", if I had offered you information that you could use to save the life of your son, daughter, brother, father, sister or mother? Especially if the extent of your "passing on information" was to say "be careful" without actually turning over the documents? I'll leave that to you to decide. As far as I can tell, what they did is not "illegal espionage activity", and that you frame it as such shows that you have an axe to grind, whose spiritual and probably national provenance is closer to the Arab world than the United States.
25. SHAI
I hope not all jews are as ungrateful as you. You would most likely be run over and flattenned if it wasnt for US welfare, militarily and financially.
26. To 25
Shai ,   Israel   (08.09.05)
Grateful? Of course I'm grateful, and I think nearly all Israelis agree that America is a good friend, especially for the diplomatic backup we get from them. But it's a bit self-serving and ignorant to assume that without the US we'd be flattened. If the US and her allies are having trouble fighting Iraq, with all due respect to the American forces, I don't think that they could have done better at defending us. Anyway, we've always made a point of NOT requesting foreign armies to protect us, and we don't want them to. We're able to do it ourselves. However, to see comments like yours, apparently you think that whatever aid we receive from the US (it's a very, very small % of our GNP) entitles you to control our foreign policy and to be your whipping boys. Don't expect us to be grateful for that. Since your way of thinking seems to be bon ton in America, I don't think that it's in Israel's interests to continue its current arrangement with the US. Whereas the aid we get from the US is mostly spent in the US, and benefits the American military industry, there are 3 problems with receiving it. 1) it engenders a sense of ownership amongst Americans over our foreign policy and over us. Like you who think that because you gave us aid, we have been bought and that it should be understood that our interests must of necessity automatically coincide with yours. You don't see that with Germany, Spain, Canada or other allies because they don't receive your assistance. It'd be better to release Americans from their feelings of responsibility for Israel's foreign policy. The influence you purchase with your aid is, in my opinion, pushing Israel into wrong-headed directions. And, we have had to weaken substantially our connections to other allies that will be important to our future political strength, like India and China to comply with the US's desire to protect its military industry. As long as we receive aid from the US, Israel cannot purchase its weapons from, and sell its weapons to, whomever it wants. It is also obliged to give its assistance in intelligence and combat experience to the US, rather than whomever best appreciates it, the way the US's other military supplier allies do, like Sweden, France, and England. 2) it delays the inevitable regarding needed changes in our economy. When we get aid, there are some politicians who start to feel that it frees up other resources for their pet projects (like Peres and his Negev/Galillee program). In my view, we should pay our own way and if that means dissembling Labor's socialist institutions, and privatizing other inefficient quasi-government companies, then that's what we should do, and fast. 3) I think Israelis need to feel more self-sufficient, and they need to take responsibility for their own decisions. Being America's middle east aircraft carrier has, contrary to what most of you think, made us super-sensitive to what America wants us to do. There are very few red lines, or even politicians anymore, that can stand up to American political pressure. I'd rather Israel grow a spine and say "thanks but no thanks" and do what her citizens want. I voted in the elections for my government, not you, and you have more say over what we do than I do.
27. To #23
Micha Sloman ,   Jerusalem, Israel   (08.10.05)
You are either an anti-Semite or a very ignorant person. Almost all American Jews are totally loyal Americans. No doubt most are better Americans than you are! Shi's use of the word "nation" was a poor choice of words. Jews are a “people”. Their nationality is determined by the country in which they hold citizenship. I, for instance am an Australian citizen and a member of the Jewish people. Membership of the Jewish people and nationality of a particular country are not incompatible. In fact during WW1 Jews fought on the side of the Germans and the Allies. In all the countries where Jews have ended up they have contributed enormously to those countries. Jews are generally model citizens much like Chinese immigrants.
28. Poverty
joe ,   Israe;   (08.10.05)
The silence from the Prime Minister says it all. Eighteen hundred years ago in Israel a poor man admonished the Nasi of the Jewish community. "Woe is to the generation that you serve as its leader for you do not display any empathy for their distress." Berachot 28a
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